19 students, 3 adults dead in Texas elementary shooting.

#3,551
#3,551
Volatility said:
They’re clearly not qualified to be police officers and should turn in their badges. Officers that won’t engage active shooters are tits-on-bull useless.
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I agree but at the same time, there’s got to be a reason so many officers had the same reaction. I truly believe they must have been told to stand down.
 
#3,552
#3,552
1vol8 said:
I agree but at the same time, there’s got to be a reason so many officers had the same reaction. I truly believe they must have been told to stand down.
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And none of them defied the order says they have no business wearing a badge.
 
#3,553
#3,553
hog88 said:
And none of them defied the order says they have no business wearing a badge.
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They wouldn’t be wearing it anyway if they had defied the order. I know you think I don’t know what I’m talking about but that chain of command thing is real. But if it were me I think I’m more proud to turn in my badge defying that order than I am turning it in because I proved a coward
 
#3,554
#3,554
Weezer said:
Columbus never set foot in North America. The only part of the U.S. he ever possibly touched, and I'd have to research to see if he did, is Puerto Rico, or possibly one of the U.S. Virgin Islands. Most of his voyages focused on Caribbean Islands, but I believe he also landed somewhere on the Northern part of South America. I want to say somewhere around Venezuela but I'm not positive.
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San Salvador
 
#3,558
#3,558
Weezer said:
That was his first voyage. He made four.
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By the time Columbus made his last voyage, he was pretty much a has been and not well received. I want to say his brothers didn’t fare very well with him either but I am not a huge fan of exploration history or European history in general outside of the World Wars.
 
#3,559
#3,559
Weezer said:
He's credited with discovering "the New World", setting off European exploration of the Western hemisphere. Of course, many historians now believe the Vikings were visiting North America long before Columbus ever set sail on his voyage.
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jim-halpert-the-office.gif
 
#3,560
#3,560
Dirty Vol said:
White House: Joe Biden Doesn’t Believe In Making Schools More Secure

Dems don't care about life they just want your AR firearms & 9mm handguns. Big show to lay blame at the hands of Reps And law abiden citizens...
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I’ve been saying with all these shootings that it’s starting to smell funny. With the fact that no one can get the story straight accompanied with officers likely being told to stand down? With every article written it’s making me think these kids died for an agenda rather than a random shooter. Call me a conspiracy theorist all you want but no one that would claim that can get this to add up either.
 
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#3,562
#3,562
1vol8 said:
I’ve been saying with all these shootings that it’s starting to smell funny. With the fact that no one can get the story straight accompanied with officers likely being told to stand down? With every article written it’s making me think these kids died for an agenda rather than a random shooter. Call me a conspiracy theorist all you want but no one that would claim that can get this to add up either.
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Conspiracy theorists have been batting 💯 the last few years.... just saying
 
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#3,563
#3,563
Funny how we haven’t heard anything about actually providing security for schools. Only punishing gun owners. Liberals want people to believe they are the party of acceptance and unity. They complain when conservatives use a small percentage of violent Muslims to describe a people. But what are they doing now? Using an even smaller percentage of gun owners to try and run down gun owners.
 
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#3,564
#3,564
BigOrangeTrain said:
Funny how we haven’t heard anything about actually providing security for schools. Only punishing gun owners. Liberals want people to believe they are the party of acceptance and unity. They complain when conservatives use a small percentage of violent Muslims to describe a people. But what are they doing now? Using an even smaller percentage of gun owners to try and run down gun owners.
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They have no interest in securing schools because they want this to keep happening so they have ammo and talking points to aid their political stance. It’s the most disgusting thing I’ve ever seen
 
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#3,566
#3,566
hog88 said:
And none of them defied the order says they have no business wearing a badge.
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hog, I simply chose your post as my point of reply. It has nothing to do with what you posted. At some level, I agree with you. But let me give you...and all of you...a view from inside the LE community.

We all know this was an active shooter. And it had a multi-jurisdiction response. For LEO's, we know that the first point of failure is communications, and it appears at first look that it played a role here. Multiple agencies responding, on multiple frequencies, and a lot of confusion as they all arrived. This...like it or not...is completely normal.

So...shooter is now inside the school. Here is my point of contention with the response: Once they're inside, it's an active shooter until it's not, which is when the shooter has been taken out. If there is a gun inside the school, you go to the gun and kill the person holding it. Period. It matters not if it is shooting anymore, It was, and it remains a threat. So you go confront the threat. It is what we are trained to do, and what we took an oath to do.

An Active Shooter never becomes a Barricaded Subject. Once you are an Active Shooter, you remain so until you get a toe tag. Those are the unwritten rules for those of us who know how to confront them. CNN might have a field day with how you ended it, but the parents will understand why you did it. I don't work for CNN, so they can kiss my ass.

But with multiple agencies responding, the paramilitary nature of LEO's is to ask "Who's in charge?" We need to know this. Who is controlling, and coordinating, the response? This is how we train. Who is telling us what we need to do?

Bravo Zulu to the BORTAC team. I have worked with those folks, and they are top-shelf. Well trained, highly motivated, and fearless. I'm not one bit surprised that it was BORTAC that finally solved the problem. My guess is...knowing them...that once the hard shields arrived they said "f*** it", and went in. If so, my hat is off to them.

For those of you that have never breached an outward-opening door against an armed threat, let me just say that you should try it at a local LaserTag provider before you try it against a real threat. Somebody has to go stand in that fatal funnel with a Halligan until the door is popped, and then somebody has to be the proverbial "first man in the gap". BORTAC never hesitated once they had what they knew they needed. Me? Yeah, I'd have been in the stack, but I'd also have taken 2 minutes to call my wife and tell her I love her. Dynamic entries...Israeli angles and all...are still a good way to get shot. That BORTAC team had balls the size of boulders.

Summary: The call to declare it a barricaded subject was wrong. Kids likely died because of that decision. Whoever made that call should be held accountable for it. That BORTAC team should be held as heroes. They are. And this should be yet the most recent lesson on why we should follow the Israeli model when it comes to (a) securing our schools, and (b) making sure we have hard men/women on site to protect our children. I'm sorry, but from personal observation...and as recent history has proven...your average SRO is simply not prepared to engage an active shooter. It is what it is.

Want your kids to be safe at school? Make it a hard target, and put hard people in there to defend them, just in case.
 
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#3,567
#3,567
GreyWolf1129 said:
hog, I simply chose your post as my point of reply. It has nothing to do with what you posted. At some level, I agree with you. But let me give you...and all of you...a view from inside the LE community.

We all know this was an active shooter. And it had a multi-jurisdiction response. For LEO's, we know that the first point of failure is communications, and it appears at first look that it played a role here. Multiple agencies responding, on multiple frequencies, and a lot of confusion as they all arrived. This...like it or not...is completely normal.

So...shooter is now inside the school. Here is my point of contention with the response: Once they're inside, it's an active shooter until it's not, which is when the shooter has been taken out. If there is a gun inside the school, you go to the gun and kill the person holding it. Period. It matters not if it is shooting anymore, It was, and it remains a threat. So you go confront the threat. It is what we are trained to do, and what we took an oath to do.

An Active Shooter never becomes a Barricaded Subject. Once you are an Active Shooter, you remain so until you get a toe tag. Those are the unwritten rules for those of us who know how to confront them. CNN might have a field day with how you ended it, but the parents will understand why you did it. I don't work for CNN, so they can kiss my ass.

But with multiple agencies responding, the paramilitary nature of LEO's is to ask "Who's in charge?" We need to know this. Who is controlling, and coordinating, the response? This is how we train. Who is telling us what we need to do?

Bravo Zulu to the BORTAC team. I have worked with those folks, and they are top-shelf. Well trained, highly motivated, and fearless. I'm not one bit surprised that it was BORTAC that finally solved the problem. My guess is...knowing them...that once the hard shields arrived they said "f*** it", and went in. If so, my hat is off to them.

For those of you that have never breached an outward-opening door against an armed threat, let me just say that you should try it at a local LaserTag provider before you try it against a real threat. Somebody has to go stand in that fatal funnel with a Halligan until the door is popped, and then somebody has to be the proverbial "first man in the gap". BORTAC never hesitated once they had what they knew they needed. Me? Yeah, I'd have been in the stack, but I'd also have taken 2 minutes to call my wife and tell her I love her. Dynamic entries...Israeli angles and all...are still a good way to get shot. That BORTAC team had balls the size of boulders.

Summary: The call to declare it a barricaded subject was wrong. Kids likely died because of that decision. Whoever made that call should be held accountable for it. That BORTAC team should be held as heroes. They are. And this should be yet the most recent lesson on why we should follow the Israeli model when it comes to (a) securing our schools, and (b) making sure we have hard men/women on site to protect our children. I'm sorry, but from personal observation...and as recent history has proven...your average SRO is simply not prepared to engage an active shooter. It is what it is.

Want your kids to be safe at school? Make it a hard target, and put hard people in there to defend them, just in case.
Click to expand...

I don’t blame them to a certain degree. Let’s be honest, many in law enforcement aren’t highly skilled or educated. Pay is very minimal and the stress level is out the roof, many are probably burnt out or not willing to risk their life for a career and nation that for the most part doesn’t respect them. I would say there is a definite hesitation of many to put their life on the line other than their everyday issues. On the flip side, I understand the frustration of the parents and the community that expect better but until they are paid and respected at an acceptable level I am afraid incidents like this are going to continue. I realize military personnel are paid relatively little at first but you can make a very good living and advance into non combat related careers in the military. A detective at the local level in most areas is paid very little and has extremely long work hours with very high stress.
 
#3,568
#3,568
Yet more money and resources sent to Ukraine. Funny how some were championing Zelensky arming his people. But I guess the security of the poor Ukrainian people are much more important than the safety and well being of children in this country.
 
#3,569
#3,569
Has this thread really become a debate over the various definitions (or perhaps a misunderstanding of the past tense) of the word found?
 
#3,572
#3,572
GreyWolf1129 said:
But with multiple agencies responding, the paramilitary nature of LEO's is to ask "Who's in charge?" We need to know this. Who is controlling, and coordinating, the response? This is how we train. Who is telling us what we need to do?

.
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Then they need better training for active shooter incidents. They should be handled like near ambushes and attacked through until the threat is eliminated and be damned "who's in charge". Laying prone in the kill zone waiting for someone to make a decision just leads to more people getting killed.
 
#3,573
#3,573
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#3,575
#3,575
Zues1 said:
Obviously it was a tragedy in Uvalde, Tx, just horrific. The killing of children by a coward who wanted to go out but just couldn't find the courage to shove a 9mm in his mouth and be done with it.
The loss of children has we wondering how many babies were aborted in Uvalde on that same day?
Here's the numbers for annual abortions in the state of Texas. 50,000

At least 50,000 Texans receive abortions in the state each year. Here’s a look behind the numbers.
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The abortion obsessed have no shame. This is an Obama level post
 
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