19 Year Old Dies After Denial From Transplant List For Trace THC

#451
#451
kiddiedoc said:
And your problem is that you place no personal responsibility on the patient. He had a history of drug use/abuse, was put on a transplant list with strict stipulations, then had a positive drug test. Disqualified. End of story.
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I didn't see in this article where he was ever on a transplant list.
 
#453
#453
Thunder Good-Oil said:
Complications after surgery more than 3 months after the Utah hospital told him, no lungs for you... you will now die.
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Maybe a more appropriate title would be "19 Year Old Dies From Surgical Complications Following Procedure Contraindicted Due To THC Use."
 
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#454
#454
Anyway, I'm moving on as this debate is fruitless. At a minimum, now there's at least one well-documented risk of drug use: disqualification from receiving a lung transplant.
 
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#456
#456
I googled about how long the hair test continues to return positive results. The article that I read used a guy from Quest as a source. Since they were discussing a half inch of growth per month and shaving everything to avoid a positive, I assume positive results would continue until the hair falls out.

Found this website that lists hundreds of marijuana related articles. Odd that I didn't see one for the 19 year old dead guy.

http://www.thecannabist.co/category/news/
 
#460
#460
Thunder Good-Oil said:
I googled about how long the hair test continues to return positive results. The article that I read used a guy from Quest as a source. Since they were discussing a half inch of growth per month and shaving everything to avoid a positive, I assume positive results would continue until the hair falls out.

Found this website that lists hundreds of marijuana related articles. Odd that I didn't see one for the 19 year old dead guy.

http://www.thecannabist.co/category/news/
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5-7 years on a hair sample.

I've had it done.
 
#461
#461
Thunder Good-Oil said:
Complications after surgery more than 3 months after the Utah hospital told him, no lungs for you... you will now die.
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You have an inability or unwillingness to understand and accept some truths. You also display a blockheaded determination to claim the young man died because marijuana is not legal. And you return to the doctor's comments after the positive THC test as,..."no lungs for you... you will now die"...

You know that isn't what she said. You made that up. And because it makes the lung transplant doctor sound mean, almost gleeful about being able to tell the young man he's going to die; only because he took an illicit drug...the (rainbows and butterflys float across the screen)- harmless herb "marijuana".

So I see that as prevarication, or telling a falsehood because you have an agenda.

The father, who also is telling us "she said" but may not be quoting the doc word for word says, " 'You will die. You better get your affairs in order,' "...

An experienced surgeon did not just walk in, state 10 words and leave it at that.

The doc MUST FOLLOW hospital rules.The hospital rules were set up to follow the worldwide transplant protocols. Yes, they have some leeway. But what has not been, and because of HIPPA rules most likely will not be released, is the level of THC metabolites in his system. And it is because of those, and how long it takes the body to clean itself he was denied. Another point is the transplant organisation has found a person willing to use illegal drugs are more likely to die soon after transplant than those are not users. And that is a reasonable test of who gets transplant tissue.

The protocols maximize those who get to live and live longer.

Forcing government involvement to change the protocols will likely result in fewer living and living shorter lives after surgery.
 
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#462
#462
Orangedogsrule said:
You have an inability or unwillingness to understand and accept some truths. You also display a blockheaded determination to claim the young man died because marijuana is not legal. And you return to the doctor's comments after the positive THC test as,..."no lungs for you... you will now die"...

You know that isn't what she said. You made that up. And because it makes the lung transplant doctor sound mean, almost gleeful about being able to tell the young man he's going to die; only because he took an illicit drug...the (rainbows and butterflys float across the screen)- harmless herb "marijuana".

So I see that as prevarication, or telling a falsehood because you have an agenda.

The father, who also is telling us "she said" but may not be quoting the doc word for word says, " 'You will die. You better get your affairs in order,' "...

An experienced surgeon did not just walk in, state 10 words and leave it at that.

The doc MUST FOLLOW hospital rules.The hospital rules were set up to follow the worldwide transplant protocols. Yes, they have some leeway. But what has not been, and because of HIPPA rules most likely will not be released, is the level of THC metabolites in his system. And it is because of those, and how long it takes the body to clean itself he was denied. Another point is the transplant organisation has found a person willing to use illegal drugs are more likely to die soon after transplant than those are not users. And that is a reasonable test of who gets transplant tissue.

The protocols maximize those who get to live and live longer.

Forcing government involvement to change the protocols will likely result in fewer living and living shorter lives after surgery.
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I said that the hospital told him that he gets no lungs and he will die. You're sure making a lot of blockheaded assumptions about what I said. I said that it was a "harsh" result after having THC detected in his system. The article doesn't indicate that he was even on the transplant list BEFORE he had a smoke on Thanksgiving. So based on that, don't EVER have any of the illicit THC in ANY form because if you get sick and need a transplant... you ain't getting on the list. Damn Druggies... let them all die.
 
#463
#463
Thunder Good-Oil said:
I said that the hospital told him that he gets no lungs and he will die. You're sure making a lot of blockheaded assumptions about what I said. I said that it was a "harsh" result after having THC detected in his system. The article doesn't indicate that he was even on the transplant list BEFORE he had a smoke on Thanksgiving. So based on that, don't EVER have any of the illicit THC in ANY form because if you get sick and need a transplant... you ain't getting on the list. Damn Druggies... let them all die.
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It would be a harsh result to learn you wouldn't get lungs for tobacco, a legal drug.

It would be a harsh result for alcohol, a legal drug.

It would be a harsh result for ANY of these drugs.

https://www.drugabuse.gov/drugs-abuse/commonly-abused-drugs-charts

Why single out marijuana?? Use of ANY of these justifiably meets the international transplant organization's ban. Legal, illegal, bath salt, whatever.

Performing a transplant on a patient with the residue from any of these in their system would be irresponsible.

His lungs were very far gone and the surgeon knew his system couldn't cleanse itself of enough THC and THC metabolites to reach a low enough blood level requirement to be a safe transplant candidate before his body collapsed. He needed to get his affairs in order. And ultimately, she was right. Anything else is speculation.

We need funding to have studies do on how much THC in the system is safe for surgery. But given the so very few lungs available compared to those needing a transplant, I doubt further knowledge will change a thing with respect to transplant science.

If you have a high enough "trace" in your system, that's going to be a sad thing.
 
#464
#464
Orangedogsrule said:
It would be a harsh result to learn you wouldn't get lungs for tobacco, a legal drug.

It would be a harsh result for alcohol, a legal drug.

It would be a harsh result for ANY of these drugs.

https://www.drugabuse.gov/drugs-abuse/commonly-abused-drugs-charts

Why single out marijuana?? Use of ANY of these justifiably meets the international transplant organization's ban. Legal, illegal, bath salt, whatever.

Performing a transplant on a patient with the residue from any of these in their system would be irresponsible.

His lungs were very far gone and the surgeon knew his system couldn't cleanse itself of enough THC and THC metabolites to reach a low enough blood level requirement to be a safe transplant candidate before his body collapsed. He needed to get his affairs in order. And ultimately, she was right. Anything else is speculation.

We need funding to have studies do on how much THC in the system is safe for surgery. But given the so very few lungs available compared to those needing a transplant, I doubt further knowledge will change a thing with respect to transplant science.

If you have a high enough "trace" in your system, that's going to be a sad thing.
Click to expand...

But he was a candidate four months later.

Illicit. Medical term?
 
#466
#466
bigdaddy said:
Ask Rosen Rosen next time you see him and he has my contact info. I'll tell him to give it to you. Been meaning to catch a show with you guys
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Will do. I rely on him for local music recommendations, lol.
 
#468
#468
I'm sorry if this isn't on topic, but I have a question that somebody here might be able to answer.

I have no reason to keep up with the news about marijuana. One of the statistics I have heard over and over is that "marijuana has never killed anyone," which I assume is referring to overdoses. Excluding a few bizarre outliers, google tells me this is true.

My question is this: If you can't overdose on marijuana, what would happen if someone chain smoked pot nonstop? I imagine the lungs could experience some discomfort (but maybe not with vapor?), eventually drowsiness, but besides being uncomfortably high what would happen? Would the person lose contentiousness and before having a lethal amount of THC?
In a controlled environment, what would happen to a man who smoked as aggressively as possible indefinitely?

On a lighter note..
bigdaddy said:
but it's not killing 100k, how many deaths are thee for marijuana overdose? 500 isn't a huge killer, that's less than bee stings
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But how many bee stings will get me high?
I don't want too many, just enough to give me a good buzz. :w00t:
 
#469
#469
Weezer said:
If you need an organ, you're put on a transplant list. The lungs don't just magically appear from thin air.
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I meant when he first had the problem... while at the Utah hospital in November. Obviously he eventually was on a list as he had the surgery at UPenn more than 4 months later.
 
#471
#471
Thunder Good-Oil said:
I meant when he first had the problem... while at the Utah hospital in November. Obviously he eventually was on a list as he had the surgery at UPenn more than 4 months later.
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You still get put on a list. The hospital doesn't provide the organ being donated. All of that is organized by UNOS. Google them. They set the national guidelines and make sure the organ is a good match. Organs are not one size fits all. There needs to be a close tissue match, and even then, you're on anti-rejection drugs the rest of your life. If you are seriously interested in organ transplants, take the time to research it. Hopefully, you are an organ donor. I encourage everyone that can donate, become an organ donor. Once you're gone, you can save a life.
 
#472
#472
Weezer said:
You still get put on a list. The hospital doesn't provide the organ being donated. All of that is organized by UNOS. Google them. They set the national guidelines and make sure the organ is a good match. Organs are not one size fits all. There needs to be a close tissue match, and even then, you're on anti-rejection drugs the rest of your life. If you are seriously interested in organ transplants, take the time to research it. Hopefully, you are an organ donor. I encourage everyone that can donate, become an organ donor. Once you're gone, you can save a life.
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I got it from the article linked in the first post:

Doctors said that he would need a double lung transplant to survive. But they denied him a place on the transplant list after finding THC - the main intoxicant in marijuana - in his system, reported KFOR.
 
#473
#473
This thread.....

giphy.gif
 
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#475
#475
Weezer said:
If you need an organ, you're put on a transplant list. The lungs don't just magically appear from thin air.
Click to expand...

From the way the article read it appears that the Utah hospital was performing the tests which determine a candidates suitability to be placed on the transplant list.

Sadly, Riley failed the THC-COOH test. Its the marijuana THC metabolite which is what they test for because they know the amount in the urine reliably predicts the patients use patterns.

(THC-COOH)(ng/mL)
Detection Time* up to

Single Use 3 days
Mod Use(4xwk) 5 days
Hvy Use(daily) 10 days
Chronic Hvy Use 30 days

*These are approximate detection times for the drug or metabolites in urine. The actual detection time depends on dose, frequency of use, and individual metabolism.

The point I'm making is by doing a few tests over a few days an experienced lab tech can tell into which group a person with THC-COOH in their system falls.

The transplant surgeon therefore knew that even by total abstinence Riley lungs would fail before he could reduce the more than 2000 compounds in his system that could be deadly to a transplant patient to acceptable levels.

This is sad in many ways; sad for Riley, sad for the Hancey family, and sad for Riley's loved ones.

Its also sad that we don't have better knowledge.

Hopefully this case will spur greater research into cannabis use with respect to surgical outcomes, and especially transplant candidate suitability algorithms.

But there are so many, many factors. Was it inhaled or ingested or both? Was it from Vaping oil or burning a doobie. As its lipid soluable and stores in fat cells, how does body mass index (BMI) relate to metabolization rates?
Will a person with more fat continue to produce metabolites dangerous to surgery for longer periods? At what level is surgery safe?

All the while, several deserving candidates who are testing clean are waiting on their own chance of another 10 to 15 years of life.

Is the available money for transplant tests better spent on other issues and procedures?
 
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