2/9/11, Carolina vs. Duke: Round 1

#251
#251
Regulator said:
Or you could just say that UNC has improved and is a better team this year. Jason Williams said it on ESPN.
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There's a difference between "Carolina has improved" and

"OMG!! UNC is back!! Never mind that Duke was missing the keys to their title from last year AND their best player this year, we just beat them so we're like better than national champions and going straight to the Final Four!!!!"

They're better, but Duke sans Irving is certainly worse as well.
 
#252
#252
VKAman said:
Wrong.



Wrong.



Ladies and gentlemen, this is the kind of noncommittal statement you throw out there when you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
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Since Irving was in high school during Duke's title run.....

And again...Brian Zoubek. Not Shelden Williams. Not even Cherokee Parks. Brian Zoubek.
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#253
#253
VKAman said:
There's a difference between "Carolina has improved" and

"OMG!! UNC is back!! Never mind that Duke was missing the keys to their title from last year AND their best player this year, we just beat them so we're like better than national champions and going straight to the Final Four!!!!"

They're better, but Duke sans Irving is certainly worse as well.
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Another "ifs and buts" argument. Should I mention that UNC only has 8 scholarship players right now? If you can say that UNC is a better team RIGHT NOW than Duke, I'll shut up.
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#254
#254
Regulator said:
Another "ifs and buts" argument. Should I mention that UNC only has 8 scholarship players right now? If you can say that UNC is a better team RIGHT NOW than Duke, I'll shut up.
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So? Duke won a title with essentially 9 and has the same number right now.

They're better when they're at home and Duke shoots 20% from 3, just like Virginia Tech and St. John's. So clearly all three will meet in the Final Four.

6/10, full strength, neutral site? Hell no, and I don't care if you shut up.
 
#255
#255
Regulator said:
Since Irving was in high school during Duke's title run.....

And again...Brian Zoubek. Not Shelden Williams. Not even Cherokee Parks. Brian Zoubek.
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Early in the season, even Duke fans were making fun of him. But is this really how UNC fans justified the title? "It was because the same three guys who kept losing in the Sweet 16 magically improved?" A year and a half later and they STILL don't notice that anything changed? Basketball acumen right there...

While we're at it, UNC is in a groove because of Barnes/Henson/Zeller. Nevermind that whole Marshall-for-Drew thing, he's like Bobby Frasor.
 
#256
#256
Regulator said:
Irving did nothing to help '10 Duke. Zoubek shouldn't be that hard to replace. This Duke team is essentially the same as last year's. No more/less over/underrated, no more/less likely to win.
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for a team who has a huge problem rebounding the ball, having Zoubek, who was a phenomenal rebounder, would really help offset the loss of Irving. No one is saying that Zoubek is a great player, but he served his role and he served it well. Duke wasn't the odds on favorite to win this year because they won last year, it's because they had Kyrie Irving. If you really want to question the kid's talent, he's still considered a very viable option for a lottery pick this year, if not the #1 overall pick.
 
#257
#257
Zoubek played his best ball during the stretch run last season. It's no coincidence that it was when Duke played its best ball, also.
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#258
#258
VKAman said:
Early in the season, even Duke fans were making fun of him. But is this really how UNC fans justified the title? "It was because the same three guys who kept losing in the Sweet 16 magically improved?" A year and a half later and they STILL don't notice that anything changed? Basketball acumen right there...

While we're at it, UNC is in a groove because of Barnes/Henson/Zeller. Nevermind that whole Marshall-for-Drew thing, he's like Bobby Frasor.
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Being a Tar-Heel fan for my entire life I would take 47 bobby Frasors' over one Larry Drew.

UNC is in a grove because of Marshall/Henson/Barnes
 
#259
#259
Regulator said:
Since Irving was in high school during Duke's title run.....

And again...Brian Zoubek. Not Shelden Williams. Not even Cherokee Parks. Brian Zoubek.
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Zoubek was not that talented, but Duke did not become an elite team last year until Zoubek finally became healthy and gained confidence after the Maryland game. Duke could not have won the National Title w/o him. His size, defense, and his ability to create more possessions made him a very important part of Duke's title run. Don't discount his importance. If the Plumlee's would play D and rebound then Duke would be in much better shape.

Duke is not hitting it's stride right now because Singler is off. If Singler starts hitting shots again Duke beats UNC w/o a lot of problems. To steal a Nike commercial's quote
"My better is better than your better."
Duke's better is better than the Heels' better.
See you on Sunday Heels.
 
#260
#260
RDU VOL#14 said:
Zoubek was not that talented, but Duke did not become an elite team last year until Zoubek finally became healthy and gained confidence after the Maryland game. Duke could not have won the National Title w/o him. His size, defense, and his ability to create more possessions made him a very important part of Duke's title run. Don't discount his importance. If the Plumlee's would play D and rebound then Duke would be in much better shape.

Duke is not hitting it's stride right now because Singler is off. If Singler starts hitting shots again Duke beats UNC w/o a lot of problems. To steal a Nike commercial's quote
"My better is better than your better."
Duke's better is better than the Heels' better.
See you on Sunday Heels.
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I'm inclined to think Barnes' defense may have something to do with Singler's struggles. And that doesn't account for Duke's lack of defense. Regardless, I do feel we'll see the rematch on Sunday.
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#261
#261
Regulator said:
I'm inclined to think Barnes' defense may have something to do with Singler's struggles. And that doesn't account for Duke's lack of defense. Regardless, I do feel we'll see the rematch on Sunday.
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Barnes has done a nice job on him, but Singler had open looks and did not finish. Singler's struggles aren't just w/ UNC, he has not played well consistently for over a month now.
 
#262
#262
I doubt Duke will even make it to the finals. They're not playing well at all right now.
 
#263
#263
RDU VOL#14 said:
Barnes has done a nice job on him, but Singler had open looks and did not finish. Singler's struggles aren't just w/ UNC, he has not played well consistently for over a month now.
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Oh, no doubt. Singler has had a somewhat disappointing senior season, but Duke has more issues than that. With momentum and a neutral court, I'll take UNC.
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#264
#264
Regulator said:
Oh, no doubt. Singler has had a somewhat disappointing senior season, but Duke has more issues than that. With momentum and a neutral court, I'll take UNC.
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Of course you will, but they're not the better team.
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#265
#265
BigPapaVol said:
Of course you will, but they're not the better team.
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Out of 80 minutes played this season, Carolina has owned them for 60+. Better rebounding, better balance, better defense.
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#266
#266
Big difference in Duke fans attitudes in this thread from before and after the game. Funny to read.
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#267
#267
Regulator said:
Out of 80 minutes played this season, Carolina has owned them for 60+. Better rebounding, better balance, better defense.
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You keep sounding off about the defense, but it sucks. Don't let Duke's rough shoring fool you into believing there is defense being played.
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#268
#268
BigPapaVol said:
You keep sounding off about the defense, but it sucks. Don't let Duke's rough shoring fool you into believing there is defense being played.
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Third nationally in Ken Pomeroy's defensive efficiency ratings. I'm still waiting on you to support your argument with anything other than personal opinion.
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#269
#269
Regulator said:
Third nationally in Ken Pomeroy's defensive efficiency ratings. I'm still waiting on you to support your argument with anything other than personal opinion.
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I am still amazed that Roy decided to make D a priority. It's always been "Who could score more". I've been saying for years, that if UNC decided to play D every game they would be even better. I guess Roy finally decided to emphasize it.
 
#270
#270
RDU VOL#14 said:
I am still amazed that Roy decided to make D a priority. It's always been "Who could score more". I've been saying for years, that if UNC decided to play D every game they would be even better. I guess Roy finally decided to emphasize it.
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and it was nice to Coach K to realize you need a post presence to win the title last season too. Sadly one has yet to emerge this season...
 
#271
#271
Regulator said:
Third nationally in Ken Pomeroy's defensive efficiency ratings. I'm still waiting on you to support your argument with anything other than personal opinion.
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The offenses in the ACC are abysmal. It's easy to look a lot better than you actually are playing in the ACC this year. That may be tough for some to believe due to the ACC's dominance in this generation, but the league has been on a steady decline as a whole for a few years now. Even with Carolina winning two titles and Duke winning last year. Don't let stats against bad scoring teams fool you.
 
#272
#272
volfanbill said:
The offenses in the ACC are abysmal. It's easy to look a lot better than you actually are playing in the ACC this year. That may be tough for some to believe due to the ACC's dominance in this generation, but the league has been on a steady decline as a whole for a few years now. Even with Carolina winning two titles and Duke winning last year. Don't let stats against bad scoring teams fool you.
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That still does absolutely nothing to indicate that Duke has a better team than UNC. That is the current argument at question. I'm still waiting to be provided with something/anything that would support that claim.
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#273
#273
BigPapaVol said:
You keep sounding off about the defense, but it sucks. Don't let Duke's rough shoring fool you into believing there is defense being played.
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Regulator said:
Third nationally in Ken Pomeroy's defensive efficiency ratings. I'm still waiting on you to support your argument with anything other than personal opinion.
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RDU VOL#14 said:
I am still amazed that Roy decided to make D a priority. It's always been "Who could score more". I've been saying for years, that if UNC decided to play D every game they would be even better. I guess Roy finally decided to emphasize it.
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Regulator said:
That still does absolutely nothing to indicate that Duke has a better team than UNC. That is the current argument at question. I'm still waiting to be provided with something/anything that would support that claim.
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silly me for thinking we were talking about defenses.
 
#274
#274
volfanbill said:
silly me for thinking we were talking about defenses.
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You need to go back a little further when your pal Notorious BPV made the baseless claim that UNC "still isn't the better team". And I think RDU (a more sensible Duke fan) was in agreement with the defense of UNC being improved.
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#275
#275
Regulator said:
You need to go back a little further when your pal Notorious BPV made the baseless claim that UNC "still isn't the better team". And I think RDU (a more sensible Duke fan) was in agreement with the defense of UNC being improved.
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I would say Duke is much more talented than UNC and it's really not even questionable. Both teams are streaky good and honestly, UNC's streak should be coming to an end soon. If Duke can get things rolling again, they could be the team to beat. If Curry, Dawkins, Smith and Singler can all start finding their shots at the same time, I don't know who can stop them thsi year. Even with Carolina at their best, I think Pitt, Nova, KU, Duke, maybe even Georgetown and tOSU (who i'm not sold on) can beat them. I would still bet the house that UNC will not be hanging a national title banner next season.
 
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