2006 Football

(hatvol96 @ Apr 4 said:
Nebraska played in a bowl and beat Michigan. UT went 5-6. Who's off the radar?
never said we were on the radar right now....cause we're not. just following up on the point about coaching changes and potential outcomes....kind of like what your sooners went thru before they got Stoops.

And i'd think you'd agree that Nebraska football, last year not withstanding, was in the pits. as was Notre Dame, Alabama etc.... :boredom:
 
(jakez4ut @ Apr 4 said:
never said we were on the radar right now....cause we're not. just following up on the point about coaching changes and potential outcomes....kind of like what your sooners went thru before they got Stoops.

And i'd think you'd agree that Nebraska football, last year not withstanding, was in the pits. as was Notre Dame, Alabama etc.... :boredom:
The Gibbs/Schnellenberger/Blake era wasn't any fun, that's for sure. Nebraska's mistake was giving the job to Solich. Callahan has them headed in the proper direction. The common theme among the schools that struggled with coaching changes was the lack of a coherent plan. My plan is very simple. Fulmer wins 9 games this year, he stays. Less than that, Butch Davis becomes the head coach at UT. Nothing complicated there.
 
(hatvol96 @ Apr 4 said:
Nebraska played in a bowl and beat Michigan. UT went 5-6. Who's off the radar?

Nebraska may have played in a bowl game last year, but how long have they been down, we did the year before when everyone was talking about cpf great coaching job for winning that many games with two true freshman. People jump ship way too fast. Joe Pa would be another great example, people kept saying he was done and shoulld retire or get fired, I bet the Lions werent saying that last season or this recruiting year, but watch em jump when they have the next loosing season.
 
(ddubb76 @ Apr 4 said:
Nebraska may have played in a bowl game last year, but how long have they been down, we did the year before when everyone was talking about cpf great coaching job for winning that many games with two true freshman. People jump ship way too fast. Joe Pa would be another great example, people kept saying he was done and shoulld retire or get fired, I bet the Lions werent saying that last season or this recruiting year, but watch em jump when they have the next loosing season.
So, we're supposed to sit around and be lousy for 5 or 6 years, like Penn State was, in the name of patience? No thank you. At no point in his tenure have I ever used the term "great coach" in the same sentence with Phil Fulmer. Nebraska, trending up. Tennessee, the exact opposite.
 
(hatvol96 @ Apr 4 said:
The Gibbs/Schnellenberger/Blake era wasn't any fun, that's for sure. Nebraska's mistake was giving the job to Solich. Callahan has them headed in the proper direction. The common theme among the schools that struggled with coaching changes was the lack of a coherent plan. My plan is very simple. Fulmer wins 9 games this year, he stays. Less than that, Butch Davis becomes the head coach at UT. Nothing complicated there.
yep..i agree 100%...as it was a mistake to hire Bob Davie at Notre Dame and Mike Dubose at Alabama and Gerry Dinardo at LSU etc, etc, etc.....

All of the shools i mentioned above are in much better shape today than they were way back when or whatever. They are also in better shape, presently, than TN. But it wasn't always that way, and it wasn't all that long ago that we we were on par with most other big time programs around the league and nation.

I think your point about having a plan B in place before you get to that point is a good one. LG talked about having no choice to hire Zook, and he's right. He was the only guy who'd take the job after they went thru their list of #1's. and if that could happen to Florida, Oklahoma, LSU, Notre Dame, Alabama etc...sure, it could happen to us.

I don't have a problem in changing coaches. I have a problem in having a vacancy, and the admin sitting around going "OK, what now?". Which is what happened in SOME of those instances. Which is the difference of being realistic in your coach search vs. being, barrowing LG's word, arrogant in thinking you get anyone you want.

Florida is a good example. What happens if Meyer comes in this year and loses 3-4 games? or worse more? I think all of us would more than likely agree Florida should be better than that (based on returning starters, recruiting class etc, etc, etc,...), but their schedule is every bit as tough as ours was last year, so it's not inconceivable that they could get caught napping a couple of Saturdays and lose a couple of games they really shouldn't. What then for Gator nation? does it become apparent that he may not in fact be that great of a coach? Do they get restless and wonder what happened? is 8 or 9 wins good enough for a team that will have the expectations they will probably have this year? Probably not. I doubt any fan base of any real contendor in the SEC is much different than ours, whether it be UGA, UF, Bama, LSU, Auburn, all of which are usually in the discussion for SEC division titles and SEC titles.

We're all in the same boat. Win and win now, next year and the next. meet or exceed expecations every year.

Problem is, all but one of those teams are always going to fall short of those expectations. and lately, we've been that team to not only mis the expectation, but fall so far below you have to question everything until it's proven again that we are a)back and b)aren't going anywhere. if neither of those are met, and met quickly, change will take care of itself.
 
(hatvol96 @ Apr 4 said:
So, we're supposed to sit around and be lousy for 5 or 6 years, like Penn State was, in the name of patience? No thank you. At no point in his tenure have I ever used the term "great coach" in the same sentence with Phil Fulmer. Nebraska, trending up. Tennessee, the exact opposite.
no arguement on the trend with Neb and TN, but while Neb was in it's down turn of really bad football, i guess patience was warranted? which is it? to be patient or not to be patient? for now, it worked for both PSU and Neb.
 
(hatvol96 @ Apr 4 said:
So, we're supposed to sit around and be lousy for 5 or 6 years, like Penn State was, in the name of patience? No thank you. At no point in his tenure have I ever used the term "great coach" in the same sentence with Phil Fulmer. Nebraska, trending up. Tennessee, the exact opposite.
No, I dont think we sit lousy for 5-6 or even three. But i do think we give coach at least one after we thought he did soo good the previos year, without everyone saying that if we let it go too far down no one will want the job. If I had been a Penn state fan I would have benn calling for his head for two or three years. But I am not a Penn state fan I am a big orange fan and I dont think we are anywhere near that low of a program.
 
(ddubb76 @ Apr 4 said:
No, I dont think we sit lousy for 5-6 or even three. But i do think we give coach at least one after we thought he did soo good the previos year, without everyone saying that if we let it go too far down no one will want the job. If I had been a Penn state fan I would have benn calling for his head for two or three years. But I am not a Penn state fan I am a big orange fan and I dont think we are anywhere near that low of a program.
yet....
 
(jakez4ut @ Apr 4 said:
no arguement on the trend with Neb and TN, but while Neb was in it's down turn of really bad football, i guess patience was warranted? which is it? to be patient or not to be patient? for now, it worked for both PSU and Neb.
They weren't patient. Solich was fired. Callahan's only been there two years. If he hadn't closed the year beating Colorado and Michigan, the wolves would be at his door. Penn State has no choice. They can't fire Paterno, so they have keep him until he decides to move on.
 
Patience is definitely not the word I would use for how Nebraska ran Solich.
 
Fulmer has been head coach for 14 years. Before that Majors was Head Coach for about the same length of time. UT has had 2 coaches for the last 30 years. Georgia, Florida, LSU, and Auburn have probably had 3 or more coaches in the last 10 years.

IMO UT has too much loyalty. Majors probably should have been fired after the 88 season.
 
I was never a big fan of Majors . . . But if we had fired Majors after 1988, there's a better than average chance that we don't win SEC titles in 1989 and 1990.
 
(GAVol @ Apr 4 said:
I was never a big fan of Majors . . . But if we had fired Majors after 1988, there's a better than average chance that we don't win SEC titles in 1989 and 1990.
Uh, if we had fired Majors then we would have hired Spurrier. My guess is that would have turned out just fine.
 
(hatvol96 @ Apr 4 said:
They weren't patient. Solich was fired. Callahan's only been there two years. If he hadn't closed the year beating Colorado and Michigan, the wolves would be at his door. Penn State has no choice. They can't fire Paterno, so they have keep him until he decides to move on.
OK...I see that. and i agree about Paterno, but in the mindset of the fans, which is what i'm more or less getting at regarding Neb, it had to chap some hides that they fired a guy that went:
1998-9-4
1999-12-1
2000-10-2
2001-11-2
2002-7-7
2003-10-3

.797 Winning %, averaged 9.8 wins a season.

2004 bill Callahan-5-6
2005-8-4(highest ranked team they beat was #15 at the time Texas Tech)

I'd say the verdict is still out? i don't know....
 
(hatvol96 @ Apr 4 said:
Uh, if we had fired Majors then we would have hired Spurrier. My guess is that would have turned out just fine.
i wasn't a huge fan of Johnny ball either, but playing hindsight 18 years ago about whether or not Spurrier would have come here? that's a stretch imo.....
 
(hatvol96 @ Apr 4 said:
Uh, if we had fired Majors then we would have hired Spurrier. My guess is that would have turned out just fine.

Whatever dude . . . My point was we stuck with Majors and he was successful once again.
 
(jakez4ut @ Apr 4 said:
OK...I see that. and i agree about Paterno, but in the mindset of the fans, which is what i'm more or less getting at regarding Neb, it had to chap some hides that they fired a guy that went:
1998-9-4
1999-12-1
2000-10-2
2001-11-2
2002-7-7
2003-10-3

.797 Winning %, averaged 9.8 wins a season.

2004 bill Callahan-5-6
2005-8-4(highest ranked team they beat was #15 at the time Texas Tech)

I'd say the verdict is still out? i don't know....
Remember how 2001 ended. Destroyed by Colorado and Miami. Then, 7-7 with a loss to a mediocre Ole Miss team in the Independence Bowl. The 2003 team may have been 10-3, but they were a paper tiger.
 
(jakez4ut @ Apr 4 said:
i wasn't a huge fan of Johnny ball either, but playing hindsight 18 years ago about whether or not Spurrier would have come here? that's a stretch imo.....
I'm pretty confident that Spurrier would have left Duke for UT.
 
(hatvol96 @ Apr 4 said:
Remember how 2001 ended. Destroyed by Colorado and Miami. Then, 7-7 with a loss to a mediocre Ole Miss team in the Independence Bowl. The 2003 team may have been 10-3, but they were a paper tiger.
OK...i don't know enough about Nebraska football schedules to go one way or another, but they fired a guy that won 59 games in 6 years. He had one year at .500, followed that with a good year (10 wins still has to be good? right?), and got the boot. the next guy comes in and proceeds to have the worst year ever at Nebraska. follows that up with a very average 8-4 from what i can tell, that schedule did inlcude a game agains Maine. And beating last year's Colorado team in a bowl shouldn't be considered any great feat of strength....

i'm just saying, i think i'd rather see how ol Frank would have done in 04 before i'd like to see the admin make a decision that results in the worst year of Neb football ever.

the difference between TN and Neb in these two situations, is that our current regime got us to 5-6, we didn't have to wait on some new guy to do it for us. which probably doesn't help my argument when i think about it....oh well.... :biggrin2: fire away!
 
(jakez4ut @ Apr 4 said:
OK...i don't know enough about Nebraska football schedules to go one way or another, but they fired a guy that won 59 games in 6 years. He had one year at .500, followed that with a good year (10 wins still has to be good? right?), and got the boot. the next guy comes in and proceeds to have the worst year ever at Nebraska. follows that up with a very average 8-4 from what i can tell, that schedule did inlcude a game agains Maine. And beating last year's Colorado team in a bowl shouldn't be considered any great feat of strength....

i'm just saying, i think i'd rather see how ol Frank would have done in 04 before i'd like to see the admin make a decision that results in the worst year of Neb football ever.

the difference between TN and Neb in these two situations, is that our current regime got us to 5-6, we didn't have to wait on some new guy to do it for us. which probably doesn't help my argument when i think about it....oh well.... :biggrin2: fire away!
The players Solich recruited got them to 5-6. That's why he was fired. Their administration saw the drop in talent and decided to pull the plug before it got any worse. Callahan has come in and produced back to back solid classes. If people feel loyalty to Fulmer for past accomplishments is worth the risk of things continuing to deteriorate, fine. Just don't be upset when fans who see things like I do call you out for being complicit in the destruction of Tennessee Football.
 
(jakez4ut @ Apr 4 said:
OK...I see that. and i agree about Paterno, but in the mindset of the fans, which is what i'm more or less getting at regarding Neb, it had to chap some hides that they fired a guy that went:
1998-9-4
1999-12-1
2000-10-2
2001-11-2
2002-7-7
2003-10-3

.797 Winning %, averaged 9.8 wins a season.

2004 bill Callahan-5-6
2005-8-4(highest ranked team they beat was #15 at the time Texas Tech)

I'd say the verdict is still out? i don't know....

Solich inherited good players. The first 4 years he was still working with players Osbourne recruited. His first senior class of players he recruited was in 2002. I'm not justifying why he was fired. His W-L record is good, and better then Fulmer's last 6 years.

Solich never had a no. 1 recruiting class, go 5-6, 4 years later. Fulmer's finished 3 of the last 6 season unranked, mainly due to poor bowl performance. I'm pretty sure Solich stayed in the top 25, all except the 2002 season.

Fulmer

2000 8-4
2001 11-2
2002 8-5
2003 10-3
2004 10-3
2005 5-6

IMO the only reason Paterno wasn't fired was because he has remained a few games away from becoming the winnest coach in div I. Paterno and Bowden are basically in a death match to outlive the other one, so they can become the alltime winnest coach in Div. I. As soon as one retires or dies (probably dies), the other becomes the victor. Its a unique circumstance.

If Solich was a really good coach as you are suggesting he should be able to turn around wherever he goes (Ohio). That remains to be seen.
 
(hatvol96 @ Apr 4 said:
Just don't be upset when fans who see things like I do call you out for being complicit in the destruction of Tennessee Football.
don't worry hat...i'll be ok. thanks for the concern though...you do have a soft side don't you.... :birgits_giggle:
 

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