2011 French Open (unofficial) Thread

#126
#126
If Roger is in this match at all, expect the French crowd to be all over Nadal in a way only the French can be.
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#129
#129
It may be over quick now. Roger was playing with confidence of old until those final games.
 
#135
#135
It could be a moot point, but regardless of Rafa's commitment over the years to exceptional fitness, he looks the worse for wear of the two. If it somehow got to a fourth, I'm not sure Rafa's legs would hold up. Maybe I'm seeing it wrong but it sure looks that way to me.
 
#139
#139
Nadal cements his place as the best dirt-baller of all time (but you have to believe a healthy Guga would've made for some battle on clay for the early days of Rafa's career).

Federer once again shut the mouths of the buffoons that make up the tennis media industry by showing he can still scare Nadal on his best surface. Federer's best is behind him, but I wish these guys would not pounce on every loss he has as proof of his complete demise.

Federer, Nadal, Murray, and Djokovic should all have deep runs at Wimbledon. Wouldn't be surprised to see those names in the semis in London.

The French final didn't produce the outcome I wanted, but it confirmed that Federer still has something to say about Grand Slams.
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#140
#140
DyronNix said:
Nadal cements his place as the best dirt-baller of all time (but you have to believe a healthy Guga would've made for some battle on clay for the early days of Rafa's career).

Federer once again shut the mouths of the buffoons that make up the tennis media industry by showing he can still scare Nadal on his best surface. Federer's best is behind him, but I wish these guys would not pounce on every loss he has as proof of his complete demise.

Federer, Nadal, Murray, and Djokovic should all have deep runs at Wimbledon. Wouldn't be surprised to see those names in the semis in London.

The French final didn't produce the outcome I wanted, but it confirmed that Federer still has something to say about Grand Slams.
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Who do you count as the favorite for Wimbledon?
 
#141
#141
I think Djokovic's loss to RF will do him good and gives him a fresh start heading into the grass season. If he can pick up where he left off, he has good a claim as anyone. He's performed well at Wimbledon in the past back before he had the level of desire he seems to have this season. So he should only do better from here on. Grass is probably his worst surface up to this point, but this year is a different year for him.

Federer is always in the conversation. I don't think today's loss to Rafa hurts as bad as years past. RF could've just as easily won in three sets today. It was that close. He takes that confidence to London. Does his serve follow him or stay in Paris?

Rafa can never be discounted but especially not at Wimbledon. His form will have to improve over what it was in Paris. Not a dig, but he won the French despite playing very poorly at times and doing just enough up until the final. He usually rises to the occasion.

Murray? Someday, some where he will win a slam. Won't he?

The field. Don't see anyone else out there that will step up and win this thing this year.
 
#142
#142
DyronNix said:
I think Djokovic's loss to RF will do him good and gives him a fresh start heading into the grass season. If he can pick up where he left off, he has good a claim as anyone. He's performed well at Wimbledon in the past back before he had the level of desire he seems to have this season. So he should only do better from here on. Grass is probably his worst surface up to this point, but this year is a different year for him.

Federer is always in the conversation. I don't think today's loss to Rafa hurts as bad as years past. RF could've just as easily won in three sets today. It was that close. He takes that confidence to London. Does his serve follow him or stay in Paris?

Rafa can never be discounted but especially not at Wimbledon. His form will have to improve over what it was in Paris. Not a dig, but he won the French despite playing very poorly at times and doing just enough up until the final. He usually rises to the occasion.

Murray? Someday, some where he will win a slam. Won't he?

The field. Don't see anyone else out there that will step up and win this thing this year.
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Roger has to feel pretty good about the match. I agree with you that he should come in to wimbledon confident. He gave rafa a better match than he usually does on clay.

Djokovic has to start winning majors (other than the aussie) sometime. I can see him breaking through here.
 
#143
#143
BigPapaVol said:
Not at all. I think they slowed it down because of all the complaints about lack of rallies and two shot tennis. I understand it from the spectator angle, but the new rackets have changed it for them. The slower surface there lets the ball sit up just a hair more and helps a guy like Nadal immensely
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Fair enough. The two-shot tennis at wimbledon was pretty annoying.
 
#145
#145
Is Rafa the greatest of all time? He clearly has Rogers number, but he still needs at least 6 more to tie him in Grand Slam titles. I think he could be....
 
#147
#147
vol4eva said:
Is Rafa the greatest of all time? He clearly has Rogers number, but he still needs at least 6 more to tie him in Grand Slam titles. I think he could be....
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It would be hard to call him the greatest right now, but his ability to win the French so often and still win majors on hard surfaces has to put him up there in the top five. Pete's inability to win on the dirt probably excludes him from the annointment. I still like the serve and volley style player over any other
 
#148
#148
vol4eva said:
Is Rafa the greatest of all time? He clearly has Rogers number, but he still needs at least 6 more to tie him in Grand Slam titles. I think he could be....
Click to expand...

He doesn't need 6 more titles to be considered the GOAT. The presently-anointed GOAT has been Nadal's personal whipping boy since Nadal was a teenager. The head to head dominance is not an argument that can be dismissed with a straight face and/or a retention of self-respect. Perhaps the head to head dominance doesn't overcome a 6 grand slam discrepancy. But what if it was 4? Or even 3?

So here is kidbourbon's criteria: If Rafa gets within 4 majors of Roger, he has has has to be considered the better historical player than Roger.

I'm actually very much willing to make the argument for Rafa as GOAT right here and now (though it does incude assumptions about eventual GS tally's...all of which are -- methinks -- conservative. It would go a little something like this.

Nadal is better than Federer. I'm calling Nadal GOAT...at least vis a vis Federer.
1. Nadal owns Federer on one of the surfaces.
2. Federer does not own Nadal on any surface.
3. A good chunk (almost half) of Federer's majors came in a very soft period of tennis where he was beating the likes of Lleyton Hewitt, Andy Roddick, Mark Phillipoussis, Marcos Baghdatis, etc. His rate then started to slow down when Nadal came on the scene. While it would be convenient to chalk this up to Fed phasing out of his prime, that is a weak argument. Why? Because he was beating everybody else in the world....except Nadal. He was still in his prime; he just finally came up against a guy that was elite.
4. In other words, if Rafa was born 4 years earlier, how many titles would Fed have? Would Nadal have more than Fed? The plain evidence suggests yes.
5. Fed wouldn't have won a career grand slam if it hadn't been for Robin Soderling. We can say this with confidence.
6. Rafa didn't need any such help in winning wimbledon. He took on and beat the man himself.
7. Roger has 6 more majors than Nadal. Maybe that cancels out the head to head. But what if it were only 4 majors? Or 3 majors? At that point, the head to head trumps...and Nadal is the GOAT.
8. I have a hunch Nadal will get to 13.
9. And so in view of the above..
10...Nadal is the greatest of all time.
 
#150
#150
A couple things as a quick addendum to my Nadal post.

1. I'm not saying that a person making a "Federer as GOAT" argument is full ruhtard or anything. I mean, it's a defensible position; I just think that the Nadal side of the argument has now tilted favorably.

2. The divisiveness* of this issue is both annoying and fascinating all at once. Everybody and their damn cousin has written an article or blog post on the topic. Let me repeat: everybody and their damn cousin.

*This is not an easy word to spell. And I'm usually pretty good at spelling stuff.
 
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