2014 DL without Lambert

[BigTCountry]

Tyler Bray, Gerald Jones, Denarius Moore, Luke Stocker, Da'rick Rogers, Justin Hunter, Tauren Poole off the top of my head on offense. That team certainly had some potential on that side of the ball.

2013..? Neal, Lane, North...? That's about it right? Pig?

this guy knows.

 

[oregonvol]

I don't think so.... always a method to your madness. You're a bright guy. I read that as a not so subtle jab at the coaching staff. It seems to me that you've seen an opening to start chipping away at the one unassailable strength, to this point, of this staff.... which is recruiting.

Your problem is that you seem to think you know me so well, but you don't have a clue about me. I don't care how you read it. If I wanted to make a jab, I would have made a jab. I've had no problem doing so at any time and won't hesitate in the future. I asked a question because I actually wanted to know the answer. I thought the answer was "no", but I didn't know for sure.

He proved you right with a 5-7 record, loss to Vandy and 4 blowout losses to the best teams on the schedule.... check.

How did he prove me right? Like most of this board, I predicted 7 wins this season. I said I felt great about the hire and was confident he was the right guy after the S. Carolina game. I never predicted them taking the rest of the year off. I never predicted a loss to Vandy. You would have thought I would have if I was so desperate to be proven right.

Now he's lost his first big recruit and here you come....lo and behold, there's an opening to tear him down on the recruiting front and you're ready to go. Que the snarky, "I wonder if this coaching staff has ever flipped an SEC recruit", like a real SEC coach just did. Believing 100% that they have not.... boom, another blow to the Butch Jones recruiting myth.

Now this I did sort of predict, in the sense that I tried to tell people that they shouldn't conclude months before signing day that Butch Jones was going to sign some monumental class. Maybe he still will or maybe more successful coaches will keep poaching his top commitments. Who knows? I do know that most big time recruiters make huge splashes on or right before signing day. I will be curious to see how aggressive this staff will be leading up to signing day or whether they will sit back and just hope they don't lose too many guys. From what I could recall, they struggled closing on lots of guys last year, so I asked a question to see how accurate my recollection was. Sorry to offend your delicate sensibilities.

I'm certain this just pissed you off and you're ready to flame. Go ahead. Just my observation..... one that I'd bet many guys on here share.

You mean I'm not going to win the VN popularity contest? Oh darn it! It was always my dream to be heralded by the masses who show up here to change their definition of "good" from week to week and click thumbs up to any post telling someone to "Shut the hell up!" if they don't agree with them.

I come here to talk about UT football and commiserate with the few who still use logic to discuss it. If that offends you so much, then you, and your ilk can feel free to use the ignore function whenever you like.

 

[KBVol]

Yeah that's it bud. Let's not forget that u (and butchna) and I don't care for each other much. Yall started it back last season when I was trying to calm this place down during all the Gruden crap.

U and I stop responding to each other and I was civil to u in my response in this thread. U got snarky back, and started it right back up. Now u can whine about it all u want, but if u can't take don't dish it darlin.

With that said if u think Dooley left it worse u have no clue what dooley walked into. CBJ walked into a football program with issues. Dooley walked into an Athletic Dept and football program in shambles. Big difference. As I said multiple times as u and ur cronies attacked me I believe Dooley never had the opportunity to be only the HC at UT. He came in as an AD/HC. The ratio favored the AD side from the get go and never really got in favor of the HC side in his time here. I said it multiple times that this year, if he were given it, would have been the first real year I could truly access him on. Especially if Bray left. He needed all the negatives out and have the players he had built relationships with during recruiting. That's my simple opinion on the situation. Now bash it like always as stupid, and just proves to me like always that I'm not wrong.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

Everybody knows exactly what he walked into and everybody knows exactly what he left. Kiffin left him garbage... Dooley in turn left Jones trash from APR to recruiting to public relations and, oh yeah....an unprecedented 3 consecutive losing seasons.

You're entitled to your opinion. Just know that at any given time there are 2500-3000 posters on VN.... and of that number, it appears you and 1-2 other guys hold your opinion on Dooley. You can give your same opinion another 10,000 and 10,000 more times the overwhelming majority of your VN/Vol brethren will be in complete disagreement with you.

Regards.

 

[VFL1953]

Yeah, it's like looking for a needle in a haystack these days

Yeah, sh*t's just awful. Next commitment to flip will be Jalen Hurd. Since he's too tall to play RB we will ask him to play DL, and he'll haul a$$ for Auburn too :crazy:

 

[Vol8188]

Malzahn is a fine coach with a very good system. But the rest of SEC coaching staffs and their DC's aren't stupid. They'll adjust. They'll watch Auburn film all year until the next game. There is still a "surprise" element for Malzahn this year. Moreover, there is now a full year to find and plan for tendencies.

I would not plan on seeing the same level of success on-going.

So 1 season at Arkansas, and this is now his 4th year total season at Auburn. Five years in the SEC, and you think SEC defenses were caught off guard or suprised?

Malzhan is the real deal.

 

[Oskie Volum]

Everybody knows exactly what he walked into and everybody knows exactly what he left. Kiffin left him garbage... Dooley in turn left Jones trash from APR to recruiting to public relations and, oh yeah....an unprecedented 3 consecutive losing seasons.

You're entitled to your opinion. Just know that at any given time there are 2500-3000 posters on VN.... and of that number, it appears you and 1-2 other guys hold your opinion on Dooley. You can give your same opinion another 10,000 and 10,000 more times the overwhelming majority of your VN/Vol brethren will be in complete disagreement with you.

Regards.

Like oregonvol said...."oh no people on here don't agree with me." And trust me he and I have gotten into it as well. Thing is that no matter how much u and ur cronies try yall fail to convince me that I'm wrong. U throw out basic stuff and act like it's gold. I throw out my assessment, and u just spit out the same thing everyone else does. Ive read it all and it still hasn't made me change my mind. Cause it's just skims the top of the issue that's all.

U act like Dooley took over some great winning program and drove it to the ground. News flash McFly...he didn't!!! It was already there, and he evened it out. For goodness sake the NCAA created a new rule based off of how we lost the bowl game vs UNC. He took on the hard part, and CBJ did what with it??? The same as he did. He had enough talent, and time in the offseason to take us to at least a bowl game no ands, ifs, buts about it.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[JustAU]

Malzahn is a fine coach with a very good system. But the rest of SEC coaching staffs and their DC's aren't stupid. They'll adjust. They'll watch Auburn film all year until the next game. There is still a "surprise" element for Malzahn this year. Moreover, there is now a full year to find and plan for tendencies.

I would not plan on seeing the same level of success on-going.

Like I said, what they're seeing is nothing new. They've studied him before. He's got tons of game tape. He's been in the SEC for 5 seasons.

I don't see how his offense is a "surprise". Same plays, same formations. Different wrinkles here and there.

 

[KBVol]

Like oregonvol said...."oh no people on here don't agree with me." And trust me he and I have gotten into it as well. Thing is that no matter how much u and ur cronies try yall fail to convince me that I'm wrong. U throw out basic stuff and act like it's gold. I throw out my assessment, and u just spit out the same thing everyone else does. Ive read it all and it still hasn't made me change my mind. Cause it's just skims the top of the issue that's all.

U act like Dooley took over some great winning program and drove it to the ground. News flash McFly...he didn't!!! It was already there, and he evened it out. For goodness sake the NCAA created a new rule based off of how we lost the bowl game vs UNC. He took on the hard part, and CBJ did what with it??? The same as he did. He had enough talent, and time in the offseason to take us to at least a bowl game no ands, ifs, buts about it.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

So when I write "Kiffin left Dooley garbage", you read "KB says Dooley took over some great winning program and drove it into the ground"? Huh?

I've written that he took over a bad situation and made it worse, from A to Z, with facts to back it up. You may not like the facts around the worst APR of any football team in the SEC under Dooley's watch or his documented alienation of former players and legacy recruits.... but those were very real. You might not even agree that UT was 15-21 with him on the sideline. I don't know, but it happened.

You know what my take is and you disagree. I know what your take is and I, along with 99% of everybody else on here, disagree. Let's just leave it at that and move on.

 

[BigTCountry]

Like oregonvol said...."oh no people on here don't agree with me." And trust me he and I have gotten into it as well. Thing is that no matter how much u and ur cronies try yall fail to convince me that I'm wrong. U throw out basic stuff and act like it's gold. I throw out my assessment, and u just spit out the same thing everyone else does. Ive read it all and it still hasn't made me change my mind. Cause it's just skims the top of the issue that's all.

U act like Dooley took over some great winning program and drove it to the ground. News flash McFly...he didn't!!! It was already there, and he evened it out. For goodness sake the NCAA created a new rule based off of how we lost the bowl game vs UNC. He took on the hard part, and CBJ did what with it??? The same as he did. He had enough talent, and time in the offseason to take us to at least a bowl game no ands, ifs, buts about it.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

it wasnt Dooley's performance his first year at UT when he had inherited Kiffin's garbage that made him a bad coach it was it was his inability to get his team to execute a close game win.... his last season was horrific... at least CBJ broke his losing streak that he(Dooley) created for Tennessee against top 25 teams this year. at least we didnt get killed by vandy and had a chance to win this year and was also competitive with GA. Dooleys first year in 2010 he ended up with some talented played James, Stocker, Teague, Bray, Simms (not talented but older QB), Bray, Rivera, King, Sapp, Poole, Rogers, Moore.... he had three years to develop these guys and pick up a few on the way... he needed just enough to win a couple of competitive SEC games (like South Carolina this year and CBJ gave the players every possible chance he could to win the GA and Vandy games) All he needed to show the University and the fans and yes we are moving the right direction, even slightly..... Whats there to show for that he was... His third season was as bad as his first.... and you say that he inherited such a bad team... Well excuse me but there should have been a learning curve at least well enough to see... but all there was, was a linear and slowly declining losing curve. One big win is all.... he couldnt do it... he couldnt get his team to do it.... heck from some player interview from UT sounds like to me he couldnt even get them to lift weights... they would just write it down. theres something wrong with that whole picture.


His third season.... failure. players he had for three yrs wasn't committed enough to execute one full game to win.

Butches first year, he tells the players its going to be tough and its going to be a process starts building a foundation and changing things that will benefit the program... He goes out gives them a chance to be 7-5 and he beats a top 25 team. Improved.


Dooleys gone. Why are you on the Dooley train anyway.. I know your going to turn around and you and svt18 or whoever is going to bash my comment and thats okay with me ,... but what has Butch done that dooley did so much better that would make you upset with Butch and happy with Dooley?

 

[daj2576]

SIAP. I just saw this about Lambert. Is Ainge saying Auburn has already ruled him ineligible? Can someone translate?

 

[butchna]

Yeah that's it bud. Let's not forget that u (and butchna) and I don't care for each other much. Yall started it back last season when I was trying to calm this place down during all the Gruden crap.

U and I stop responding to each other and I was civil to u in my response in this thread. U got snarky back, and started it right back up. Now u can whine about it all u want, but if u can't take don't dish it darlin.

With that said if u think Dooley left it worse u have no clue what dooley walked into. CBJ walked into a football program with issues. Dooley walked into an Athletic Dept and football program in shambles. Big difference. As I said multiple times as u and ur cronies attacked me I believe Dooley never had the opportunity to be only the HC at UT. He came in as an AD/HC. The ratio favored the AD side from the get go and never really got in favor of the HC side in his time here. I said it multiple times that this year, if he were given it, would have been the first real year I could truly access him on. Especially if Bray left. He needed all the negatives out and have the players he had built relationships with during recruiting. That's my simple opinion on the situation. Now bash it like always as stupid, and just proves to me like always that I'm not wrong.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

So you'se was just trying to be a voice of REASON AND CALM last year?...Don't remember Jimmy Carter using the technique of telling Anwar Sadat and Begin that they was GAY FOR EACH OTHER back at Camp David in peace talks of my childhood...then again you are a revolutionary ...Peace and good will to you Oskie
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[sjt18]

it wasnt Dooley's performance his first year at UT when he had inherited Kiffin's garbage that made him a bad coach it was it was his inability to get his team to execute a close game win.... his last season was horrific

This part... you nailed. Dooley provided a glimmer of hope in "year zero". It disappeared when Hunter went down and never came back.

All he needed to show the University and the fans and yes we are moving the right direction, even slightly

This is true and I am eternally thankful that he didn't. Supposedly he would not have had to come close to what I thought he should have to do in year three to keep his job to please the powers that be.

Whats there to show for that he was... His third season was as bad as his first.... and you say that he inherited such a bad team...

His third team was much worse because it dramatically underperformed. He did pretty much what the roster was worth in that first year but did not beat anyone to prove he could coach. He came close twice but didn't get it done.

And he STILL inherited a worse situation and team than Jones did.

Butches first year, he tells the players its going to be tough and its going to be a process starts building a foundation and changing things that will benefit the program... He goes out gives them a chance to be 7-5 and he beats a top 25 team. Improved.

Sorry. But no. Perhaps the underachievement this year is all part of a "method" that will produce great dividends on the other side.... but what we saw THIS YEAR was not an improvement over what Dooley did in year 1. It was an improvement over the massive underachievement in year 3... but is that really the standard we want to hold for UT coaches?

Dooleys gone. Why are you on the Dooley train anyway.. I know your going to turn around and you and svt18 or whoever is going to bash my comment and thats okay with me ,... but what has Butch done that dooley did so much better that would make you upset with Butch and happy with Dooley?

There is no Dooley train. Dooley was rightly fired for failing to get it done. That standard didn't change because a guy with a flat top showed up. If it wasn't good enough when Dooley was doing it then it isn't good enough now. If Dooley failed after having a "decent" first year of meeting expectations then it is PERFECTLY legitimate to talk about the implications of Jones' first year when he didn't even do that.

 

[sjt18]

nope just dont want to waste hours on here... Theres many on here that would agree that comment is so bad its not even worthy of a validated response in fact, nothing you said was a fact anyway just an opinion

Agreement has NEVER been a very good measure of "correct".

Yes. Things I said were "facts"... and yes I based an "opinion" on those facts... It is called "reasoning".

 

[sjt18]

Dooley took over a hell of a lot better team than he left Jones. Dooley's first team was a lot better in the skilled positions than this one. Now if Bray, Hunter and Patterson would have stayed then maybe I could agree with you.

No. It wasn't. Poole was his only good RB. He did not have 300 career yards entering that year and had never really played in a competitive game. Dooley had Jones and Moore. Jones had Lane and Neal. Dooley had no QB's. Jones had Worley, Peterman, and then added two.

But the lines weren't even close. I would wager that a VAST majority of coaches presented the two rosters would choose the '13 one.... even Jones.

 

[sjt18]

Tyler Bray, Gerald Jones, Denarius Moore, Luke Stocker, Da'rick Rogers, Justin Hunter, Tauren Poole off the top of my head on offense. That team certainly had some potential on that side of the ball.

2013..? Neal, Lane, North...? That's about it right? Pig?

Dooley didn't "inherit" Bray... or Simms.

Jones, Moore, and Stocker were quality players. UT didn't have any receivers of that caliber when Jones took over. Neither team had depth at TE or WR.

Poole? People here STILL hate on Poole. I think you have hated on Poole iirc. He entered that season with 171 career yards and not one of them in a competitive game.

Interesting that you are the second guy to try to cherry pick the one position that I acknowledged was better in '10 but have avoided everything else.

 

[sjt18]

Right?!?! Classic VN. SMH. I would love to see his break down of each one of ur points. Funny thing is that guys like u and I would actually love the civil convo about it. We seek it to help formulate our opinions. People just don't get that.

Merry Xmas to u and urs sjt.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

Yeah. Sometimes people think I'm mad when really I just enjoy aggressive, fact based, strongly opinionated debate. The truth is seldom discerned without smashing some ideas together and seeing which ones hold up the best.

:hi:

Same to you.

 

[sjt18]

So 1 season at Arkansas, and this is now his 4th year total season at Auburn. Five years in the SEC, and you think SEC defenses were caught off guard or suprised?

Malzhan is the real deal.

I don't doubt that. I do doubt that he comes back with the same single wing rushing O from the 50's next year and has the same kind of success.

 

[turdherder11]

Dooley sucked as a HC. His record proved that over the three years. I don't care what condition ut was in when kiffin left, he was a terrible hire. The previous ad didn't have the nuts to pay up for a big hire, and it costed him.

 

[sjt18]

FWIW, neither Dooley nor Jones were left great hands to play. We're kind of having a heated conversation over whether its worse for your wife to cheat on you with a friend or your brother.

My main point is and always has been that it makes me VERY nervous that Jones inherited a pretty similar situation and actually managed to win fewer games... than a guy who just failed magnificently.

 

[daj2576]

FWIW, neither Dooley nor Jones were left great hands to play. We're kind of having a heated conversation over whether its worse for your wife to cheat on you with a friend or your brother.

My main point is and always has been that it makes me VERY nervous that Jones inherited a pretty similar situation and actually managed to win fewer games... than a guy who just failed magnificently.

.

 

[BigTCountry]

This part... you nailed. Dooley provided a glimmer of hope in "year zero". It disappeared when Hunter went down and never came back.
This is true and I am eternally thankful that he didn't. Supposedly he would not have had to come close to what I thought he should have to do in year three to keep his job to please the powers that be.

His third team was much worse because it dramatically underperformed. He did pretty much what the roster was worth in that first year but did not beat anyone to prove he could coach. He came close twice but didn't get it done.

And he STILL inherited a worse situation and team than Jones did.

Sorry. But no. Perhaps the underachievement this year is all part of a "method" that will produce great dividends on the other side.... but what we saw THIS YEAR was not an improvement over what Dooley did in year 1. It was an improvement over the massive underachievement in year 3... but is that really the standard we want to hold for UT coaches?


There is no Dooley train. Dooley was rightly fired for failing to get it done. That standard didn't change because a guy with a flat top showed up. If it wasn't good enough when Dooley was doing it then it isn't good enough now. If Dooley failed after having a "decent" first year of meeting expectations then it is PERFECTLY legitimate to talk about the implications of Jones' first year when he didn't even do that.

Well beating a top 25 team seems to be neglected of an achievement but Dooley sure wasn't getting that done, and yes sadly it was improvement from a very bad year 3 Dooley team and that's no ones expectation of ut as a fan. But football is yr to yr and last years only good that existed left for pro. Team 116 probably one of the worst teams that I hope I ever see play at 117 just a tiny but better. The only reason last yr was even more disappointing was the talent was on the field just no results this year not much talent not much hope pulled one upset

 

[shoney]

I'm sure their success has nothing to do with it.

Auburn has been getting theses down to the wire flips for years, far more often than any other SEC school. They not only take signees from struggling team, but from the top tier teams in our league as we'll. They did it last year after one of their worst seasons in history. How do they do it? Do they do it with money (the dirty untraceable kind)? I don't know how they do it, and how they do it so much better than everyone else. But they are doing it and our staff and other staffs in this conference better find a way stop Auburn from taking your recruits right at or on signing day.

What do you guys think? What could Tennessee do to stop this, any ideals?:question:

 

[volfan10735]

I've never heard of Lambert. Is he any good?

 

[rockydoc]

Auburn has been getting theses down to the wire flips for years, far more often than any other SEC school. They not only take signees from struggling team, but from the top tier teams in our league as we'll. They did it last year after one of their worst seasons in history. How do they do it? Do they do it with money (the dirty untraceable kind)? I don't know how they do it, and how they do it so much better than everyone else. But they are doing it and our staff and other staffs in this conference better find a way stop Auburn from taking your recruits right at or on signing day.

What do you guys think? What could Tennessee do to stop this, any ideals?:question:

Not just Auburn (they appear to have taken it to another level) but a close relative if mine who works for a SEC West school, said that the assistant AD said that cheating is running amok in the NCAA in general, and with the 2010 Auburn Cam Scam, Oregon, Mississippi State and Miami examples there appear to be no attempt to shut it down!

 

[VOL6479]

No. It wasn't. Poole was his only good RB. He did not have 300 career yards entering that year and had never really played in a competitive game. Dooley had Jones and Moore. Jones had Lane and Neal. Dooley had no QB's. Jones had Worley, Peterman, and then added two.

But the lines weren't even close. I would wager that a VAST majority of coaches presented the two rosters would choose the '13 one.... even Jones.

IMO on offense the only thing this years team has better than the 10 team is o line and depth at rb Poole did have a good year in 10 though. Dooley's first team had better wr and te and on d maybe a better d line.