2014 DL without Lambert

[sjt18]

No. I asked the question because I was genuinely curious. Good to know we can at least still steal recruits from Vanderbilt.

I had not really thought about that but Dooley took over with 2 1/2 weeks left before NSD. He flipped Hunter from LSU and Rogers from UGA after Kiffin had done the ground work. He flipped Stone from being a Bama lean.

Things went way south, way quick after '10. But there were a few reasons to have some hope after "year zero".

 

[KBVol]

I think Jones is doing a better job also but Dooley did not break the program. He took over a program in worse shape than Jones did.

He took over a bad situation and made it worse. I won't even argue the talent question with you, I know where you stand there, no reason to argue that. You're not changing your mind, I'm not changing mine.

But the program as a whole was in much worse shape after he left, after a 3 year stretch of unprecedented losing, after the willful neglect of many of aspects of the program.... From APR, to recruiting, to player development, to public relations, to a demoralized fanbase, to the broken relationships with HS coaches, to broken relations with former players, to the collective defeatist psyche of the team he left behind.

 

[KBVol]

No. I asked the question because I was genuinely curious. Good to know we can at least still steal recruits from Vanderbilt.

I don't think so.... always a method to your madness. You're a bright guy. I read that as a not so subtle jab at the coaching staff. It seems to me that you've seen an opening to start chipping away at the one unassailable strength, to this point, of this staff.... which is recruiting.

He proved you right with a 5-7 record, loss to Vandy and 4 blowout losses to the best teams on the schedule.... check.

Now he's lost his first big recruit and here you come....lo and behold, there's an opening to tear him down on the recruiting front and you're ready to go. Que the snarky, "I wonder if this coaching staff has ever flipped an SEC recruit", like a real SEC coach just did. Believing 100% that they have not.... boom, another blow to the Butch Jones recruiting myth.

I'm certain this just pissed you off and you're ready to flame. Go ahead. Just my observation..... one that I'd bet many guys on here share.

 

[JustAU]

Somewhat surprisingly, I largely agree with you on Auburn's offense. There will be a lot of defensive coordinators thoroughly dissecting that offense in the offseason. When they make the appropriate adjustments, it is going to take more than three basic running plays, run from a multitude of formations (which, according to Malzahn, accounted for 80% of the running plays against Alabama) and a passing game utilized only 10-15 times a game to generate the same level of offensive effectiveness.

Malzahn has run basically the same offense with SEC teams in 2006, 2009-2011, and 2013. It isn't anything new to SEC defensive coordinators. He's been running some of the same plays and formations since HS and they are still very effective. I wouldn't count on the offense being stopped per se. Always tweaks to be made.

 

[sjt18]

I don't think so.... always a method to your madness. You're a bright guy. I read that as a not so subtle jab at the coaching staff. It seems to me that you've seen an opening to start chipping away at the one unassailable strength, to this point, of this staff.... which is recruiting.

He proved you right with a 5-7 record, loss to Vandy and 4 blowout losses to the best teams on the schedule.... check.

Now he's lost his first big recruit and here you come....lo and behold, there's an opening to tear him down on the recruiting front and you're ready to go. Que the snarky, "I wonder if this coaching staff has ever flipped an SEC recruit", like a real SEC coach just did. Believing 100% that they have not.... boom, another blow to the Butch Jones recruiting myth.

I'm certain this just pissed you off and you're ready to flame. Go ahead. Just my observation..... one that I'd bet many guys on here share.

I know Oregonvol is taking some shots and is "snarky" at times. But the blows are coming from elsewhere. No one here caused Lambert to flip or the season to go badly. What happens with this class is pretty much based on what the coaches do to recruit more and protect what they have.

I think if Oregonvol or I either one could have "wished" the season better or for Lambert to stay committed... it would have gone much different.

 

[VolFan4Life87]

He took over a bad situation and made it worse. I won't even argue the talent question with you, I know where you stand there, no reason to argue that. You're not changing your mind, I'm not changing mine.

But the program as a whole was in much worse shape after he left, after a 3 year stretch of unprecedented losing, after the willful neglect of many of aspects of the program.... From APR, to recruiting, to player development, to public relations, to a demoralized fanbase, to the broken relationships with HS coaches, to broken relations with former players, to the collective defeatist psyche of the team he left behind.

This. I simply do not agree in the slightest with folks who feel Jones inherited a better situation than Dooley. Dooley's team was absolutely loaded in comparison to this 2013 team. Furthermore, the program at that point (in 2010) was not that far removed from winning ways so there was still some sort of carry over. Now losing is all anyone on this team knows and has known in their collegiate careers.

*EDIT* Last but not least, I believe it can be argued that whatever talent Dooley did manage to bring was not properly developed.

 

[dhb92]

I'm not sure if anyone has posted this yet but according to Ainge Lambert may be ruled academically ineligible (TIFWIW) so we may have dodged a bullet there.

 

[sjt18]

Malzahn has run basically the same offense with SEC teams in 2006, 2009-2011, and 2013. It isn't anything new to SEC defensive coordinators. He's been running some of the same plays and formations since HS and they are still very effective. I wouldn't count on the offense being stopped per se. Always tweaks to be made.

Malzahn is a fine coach with a very good system. But the rest of SEC coaching staffs and their DC's aren't stupid. They'll adjust. They'll watch Auburn film all year until the next game. There is still a "surprise" element for Malzahn this year. Moreover, there is now a full year to find and plan for tendencies.

I would not plan on seeing the same level of success on-going.

 

[sjt18]

I'm not sure if anyone has posted this yet but according to Ainge Lambert may be ruled academically ineligible (TIFWIW) so we may have dodged a bullet there.

It was discussed yesterday that he was not going to be able to enroll in January because he did not pass some classes. It would be a measure of justice if he were not able to become eligible before the season.

 

[sjt18]

He took over a bad situation and made it worse. I won't even argue the talent question with you, I know where you stand there, no reason to argue that. You're not changing your mind, I'm not changing mine.

He absolutely did NOT leave the situation worse than he found it. You don't even have to give him credit to realize that.

 

[VolFan4Life87]

Malzahn is a fine coach with a very good system. But the rest of SEC coaching staffs and their DC's aren't stupid. They'll adjust. They'll watch Auburn film all year until the next game. There is still a "surprise" element for Malzahn this year. Moreover, there is now a full year to find and plan for tendencies.

I would not plan on seeing the same level of success on-going.

How often does a team make back to back national championship appearances? That alone is enough reason to argue that Auburn won't exhibit "the same level of success" next year.

 

[Rudy123]

Uh, well, bad?

If we can land a guy like Jihad Ward we can patch the holes but Lambert was obviously their choice of the 2 JUCOs.

If we don't land a JUCO DE or DT that can play SDE we'll have to rely on current roster.

That's not good, IMO, as we only really have Jordan Williams that has seen any PT and a gaggle of Freshmen.

Not being a Debbie Downer but this could severely affect our DL as a game-ready JUCO at SDE is not something you can just patch up.

Maybe they put Carr through the ringer and get him slimmed down so he can play SDE? I don't know. Besides Blair, Lambert was the biggest need... ahead of Pearson IMO.

Weatherd is another must get and he seems firm... but so did Lambert.

This may not be such a big loss anyway. Remember how we were so excited about McCullers being on campus? He is the next Reggie White, Leonard Little, etc.

Well, his preformance didn't pan out like our expectations thought that they would.

Remember how we thought that we desperately needed Marlin Brown? Well, he didn't do squat at UGA and was a free agent signee with the Ravens.

Brown didn't turn out to be the player that we thought he would be. So, missing out on him was not as big of a crisis as we thought it was.

Lambert may end up being a bust anyway.

 

[sjt18]

Dooley's team was absolutely loaded in comparison to this 2013 team.

LOL@U. Loaded? To the degree it was "loaded"... most of it was because his first staff coached up the scraps they were left. I don't give Dooley a great deal of credit for that. I give Wilcox and Chaney a ton of credit.

There is no comparison between the talent and depth on the lines. The OL/DL roster in '13 was incomparably better. There were NO... as in NONE... QB's even on the roster when Dooley signed his contract. The leading tackler was a former walk on. Neither of the other two starting LB's were drafted or have ever made an NFL playing roster. The secondary was at best a wash because of the athleticism of JJ. But the other 3 starters favor the '13 team.... and slow????? You want to complain about "slow" on the '13 team? Try a starting back 7 of Lamarcus Thompson, Lathers, Reviez, JJ, Waggner, Teague, and Anthony Anderson.

 

[KBVol]

He absolutely did NOT leave the situation worse than he found it. You don't even have to give him credit to realize that.

Disagree.

 

[VolFan4Life87]

LOL@U. Loaded? To the degree it was "loaded"... most of it was because his first staff coached up the scraps they were left. I don't give Dooley a great deal of credit for that. I give Wilcox and Chaney a ton of credit.

There is no comparison between the talent and depth on the lines. The OL/DL roster in '13 was incomparably better. There were NO... as in NONE... QB's even on the roster when Dooley signed his contract. The leading tackler was a former walk on. Neither of the other two starting LB's were drafted or have ever made an NFL playing roster. The secondary was at best a wash because of the athleticism of JJ. But the other 3 starters favor the '13 team.... and slow????? You want to complain about "slow" on the '13 team? Try a starting back 7 of Lamarcus Thompson, Lathers, Reviez, JJ, Waggner, Teague, and Anthony Anderson.

I'm sorry I was talking about the actual roster that year, inclusive of the 2010 class (most of which Dooley didn't recruit but simply retained). That roster and the fielded team was YES loaded in comparison to this 2013 team that was fielded.

 

[DaddyChad]

It was discussed yesterday that he was not going to be able to enroll in January because he did not pass some classes. It would be a measure of justice if he were not able to become eligible before the season.

Looks as though Auburn may have gotten burned as well. lol:

 

[Oskie Volum]

There you go. Need to deal with that repressed anger. I've noticed when you disagree with guys on this subject, you're the one who starts the mud slinging and name calling. Sticks and stones chief.... Sticks and stones. Going back to gliding on past your posts now..... makes the VN experience much more enjoyable. Merry Christmas Oskie.

Yeah that's it bud. Let's not forget that u (and butchna) and I don't care for each other much. Yall started it back last season when I was trying to calm this place down during all the Gruden crap.

U and I stop responding to each other and I was civil to u in my response in this thread. U got snarky back, and started it right back up. Now u can whine about it all u want, but if u can't take don't dish it darlin.

With that said if u think Dooley left it worse u have no clue what dooley walked into. CBJ walked into a football program with issues. Dooley walked into an Athletic Dept and football program in shambles. Big difference. As I said multiple times as u and ur cronies attacked me I believe Dooley never had the opportunity to be only the HC at UT. He came in as an AD/HC. The ratio favored the AD side from the get go and never really got in favor of the HC side in his time here. I said it multiple times that this year, if he were given it, would have been the first real year I could truly access him on. Especially if Bray left. He needed all the negatives out and have the players he had built relationships with during recruiting. That's my simple opinion on the situation. Now bash it like always as stupid, and just proves to me like always that I'm not wrong.
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[BigTCountry]

Dooley couldn't coach. He did however leave Jones a team with depth and talent on the DL and OL. Two quality RB's. Two talented QB's. Two NFL caliber LB's including Maggitt. And as many or more athletes to work with in the secondary. WR was the one area where he did not leave it good. He inherited a couple of quality WR's and not a whole lot else that he and his first staff didn't have to develop and manipulate to try to compete.

Dooley inherited an NCAA cloud. Jones did not.

Dooley inherited a ton of off the field issues. Jones did not.

The national image of the program with the firing of Fulmer and the departure of Kiffin was VERY low when Dooley took over. When Jones took over it was just a historic program in a slump but poised to recover with the right coach.

AD was on a hot seat when Dooley arrived. Was not when Jones arrived.

Facilities were behind the top of the SEC when Dooley arrived. They are among the best in the country now.

what a joke of a comment

 

[Oskie Volum]

I'm sorry I was talking about the actual roster that year, inclusive of the 2010 class (most of which Dooley didn't recruit but simply retained). That roster and the fielded team was YES loaded in comparison to this 2013 team that was fielded.

Yes but loaded with what?? How many of those players had to be kicked off for major issues?? Unless u think dooley was wrong for going through and cleaning house. How many players did CBJ have to discipline since he arrived??

Do u think dooley did Bryce brown dirty?? How about Janzen Jackson who he had to get rid of to start fall camp??

People like to throw around the top 10 class Kiffin left him without recaulating the 2 highly ranked players lost in the gas station incident.

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[sjt18]

I'm sorry I was talking about the actual roster that year, inclusive of the 2010 class (most of which Dooley didn't recruit but simply retained). That roster and the fielded team was YES loaded in comparison to this 2013 team that was fielded.

No. It simply wasn't. There wasn't a true DT on the roster and the one that eventually became the best DL was a DE that Dooley transferred in from USC.

I named specific players and units. You can't.

And what you admitted above makes a HUGE difference. MOST of the really good players were newcomers. They were new to the team. They were new to the system. Most were not developed or well developed. IOW's.... a WORSE situation than inheriting a bunch of experienced guys who might have not been developed as well as you might hope.

 

[sjt18]

what a joke of a comment

Which of course is why you cannot respond with a rational, fact based response... as usual.

 

[BigTCountry]

which of course is why you cannot respond with a rational, fact based response... As usual.

nope just dont want to waste hours on here... Theres many on here that would agree that comment is so bad its not even worthy of a validated response in fact, nothing you said was a fact anyway just an opinion

 

[VOL6479]

I think Jones is doing a better job also but Dooley did not break the program. He took over a program in worse shape than Jones did.

Dooley took over a hell of a lot better team than he left Jones. Dooley's first team was a lot better in the skilled positions than this one. Now if Bray, Hunter and Patterson would have stayed then maybe I could agree with you.

 

[VolFan4Life87]

No. It simply wasn't. There wasn't a true DT on the roster and the one that eventually became the best DL was a DE that Dooley transferred in from USC.

I named specific players and units. You can't.

And what you admitted above makes a HUGE difference. MOST of the really good players were newcomers. They were new to the team. They were new to the system. Most were not developed or well developed. IOW's.... a WORSE situation than inheriting a bunch of experienced guys who might have not been developed as well as you might hope.

Tyler Bray, Gerald Jones, Denarius Moore, Luke Stocker, Da'rick Rogers, Justin Hunter, Tauren Poole off the top of my head on offense. That team certainly had some potential on that side of the ball.

2013..? Neal, Lane, North...? That's about it right? Pig?

 

[Oskie Volum]

Which of course is why you cannot respond with a rational, fact based response... as usual.

Right?!?! Classic VN. SMH. I would love to see his break down of each one of ur points. Funny thing is that guys like u and I would actually love the civil convo about it. We seek it to help formulate our opinions. People just don't get that.

Merry Xmas to u and urs sjt.
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