2014 DL without Lambert

[PineyBluff Vol]

I don't know of a single poster on here who expects us to be in the final four next year.

But if we want "sound positive years", I think we need to sign good recruits to have those, right? Or did you think 5-7 this year was solely due to coaching and we have plenty of talent already?

Good point, however in my way of thinking, we are not going to have many years of winning season without bring in quality talent. League we play in is way to tough!

 

[oregonvol]

A number of teams, according to Weatherd himself on Dave Hooker's Show yesterday, are still calling him. But he maintains he's not interested in them and only wants to play for Tennessee.

Yeah and Lambert tweeted he was a VFL about a week ago, right? This is why I've said we shouldn't count on anything until a kid actually signs and all of those people praising a recruiting class months away from signing day were jumping the gun.

 

[DC Vol]

Yeah and Lambert tweeted he was a VFL about a week ago, right? This is why I've said we shouldn't count on anything until a kid actually signs and all of those people praising a recruiting class months away from signing day were jumping the gun.

Auburn prioritized EE JUCOs and nabbed a 5* from LSU and a 4* from Tennessee in a whirlwind of recruiting.

They have yet to turn their gaze on guys they know they can deal with after their NCG.

Anyone who isn't at least concerned is pulling wool over their eyes. If Auburn wins the NCG, UT better watch out as Auburn will try to poach UT's class.

 

[KBVol]

Yeah and Lambert tweeted he was a VFL about a week ago, right? This is why I've said we shouldn't count on anything until a kid actually signs and all of those people praising a recruiting class months away from signing day were jumping the gun.

Disagree a little bit with you. You take it player by player. In a class of 34 verbally committed players there's gonna be some attrition, especially when so many are so highly rated. Last year no other school wanted any of the players Dooley had committed.

This time last year Dooley had 9 verbally committed players, as you know... Jones currently has 33. I'm guessing this year's class, although only 3 have actually signed at this point, it's gonna be significantly better and higher ranked than last year's.

I think it's reasonable to compare the job Dooley did vs the job Jones is currently doing at the same point in time of both recruiting cycles and conclude that Dooley was failing and that Jones is succeeding.

Also, Weatherd has called in, unsolicited and unplanned to both Hooker's and Treece's show. Don't recall Lambert doing that and despite his VFL tweet a couple weeks ago, the signs he was looking to leave were pretty strong and persistent over the last week. Given that Weatherd is still being pursued by a number of top programs, including Tex A&M, and he continues to call in to local Knoxville radio stations to publicly proclaim his allegiance to Jones and UT, I give Butch credit for doing a very good job in his recruitment. If Weatherd all of a sudden clams up, goes dark, allows other schools into his house and won't return Brent Hubbs' phone calls, then I'll question his commitment. Until then, I'll assume he's as solid as Bates, Hurd, TKJr, Wharton, Payne, McDowell, etc, etc.....

Also, Von Pearson, as he said yesterday on local Knoxville radio, was still getting calls from Oregon, Fla St, UCLA, Ariz St, etc..... he signed yesterday.

 

[sport3500]

The loss of Lambert is not really that bad because it gives the freshmen a chance to step up and show what they can do in spring football.

 

[KBVol]

The loss of Lambert is not really that bad because it gives the freshmen a chance to step up and show what they can do in spring football.

Disagree. Lambert was needed badly as a huge stop gap. He was gonna be the JUCO experienced and highly rated stud that could step in immediately to anchor the DL. Unless we find a rare diamond in the rough DL like we found at CB last year with Sutton, you shouldn't count on a freshman to come in a contribute heavily right away at that position. We don't have time to allow freshmen to develop at DL.... we need guys ready to plug in and play from day one next year.

Put it this way....Very glad that we signed JUCO 2nd team All American Owen Williams yesterday.

 

[DaddyChad]

Auburn prioritized EE JUCOs and nabbed a 5* from LSU and a 4* from Tennessee in a whirlwind of recruiting.

They have yet to turn their gaze on guys they know they can deal with after their NCG.

Anyone who isn't at least concerned is pulling wool over their eyes. If Auburn wins the NCG, UT better watch out as Auburn will try to poach UT's class.

Historically not that many flip this late in the cycle unless there are coaching changes. Also figure in a lot of the guys that aren't EE are legacy guys. We'll probably have a few change between now and NSD but the class will stay largely intact and likely get a couple more good players in it perhaps like Scott and with a long shot at Jackson.

But hey don't let that stop people from jumping off a bridge if they want.

 

[oregonvol]

Auburn prioritized EE JUCOs and nabbed a 5* from LSU and a 4* from Tennessee in a whirlwind of recruiting.

They have yet to turn their gaze on guys they know they can deal with after their NCG.

Anyone who isn't at least concerned is pulling wool over their eyes. If Auburn wins the NCG, UT better watch out as Auburn will try to poach UT's class.

Yeah, you have to be impressed with Malzahn and his staff and the way he can just cherry pick commits from less successful coaches. On the other hand, has our staff ever flipped a guy who was committed to another SEC school?

 

[DaddyChad]

Disagree. Lambert was needed badly as a huge stop gap. He was gonna be the JUCO experienced and highly rated stud that could step in immediately to anchor the DL. Unless we find a rare diamond in the rough DL like we found at CB last year with Sutton, you shouldn't count on a freshman to come in a contribute heavily right away at that position. We don't have time to allow freshmen to develop at DL.... we need guys ready to plug in and play from day one next year.

Put it this way....Very glad that we signed JUCO 2nd team All American Owen Williams yesterday.

He is probably a big time loss but Mo Couch was a higher rated JUCO guy. A 5 star IIRC. It's not as big as some make it out to be and yet it is significant. The bright side is it gives us another spot for a four year guy this year or next.

 

[DaddyChad]

Yeah, you have to be impressed with Malzahn and his staff and the way he can just cherry pick commits from less successful coaches. On the other hand, has our staff ever flipped a guy who was committed to another SEC school?

Yeah because obviously our staff is awful at recruiting. :crazy:

 

[Oskie Volum]

Disagree a little bit with you. You take it player by player. In a class of 34 verbally committed players there's gonna be some attrition, especially when so many are so highly rated. Last year no other school wanted any of the players Dooley had committed.

This time last year Dooley had 9 verbally committed players, as you know... Jones currently has 33. I'm guessing this year's class, although only 3 have actually signed at this point, it's gonna be significantly better and higher ranked than last year's.

I think it's reasonable to compare the job Dooley did vs the job Jones is currently doing at the same point in time of both recruiting cycles and conclude that Dooley was failing and that Jones is succeeding.

No way u can compare dooley A year ago vs this year. Dooley was gone and that was obvious throughout the season. Dooley went the commit when u r sure 100% route and when he was committed 100% too. He didn't seem to want to go the "hey we got a better player committing sooooo start looking around" route. Also dooley nver had the ability to sign up 30+ kids in a year. The guy had to deal with being on probation and being hit with a loss of schollys due to it. Don't forget we have a lack of depth issue at LB because he had Santos and Peters poached last wknd before nsd. So that class would have been considered better. Plus a LB ready to get playing time asap in Santos.

No way in the world can CBJs recruiting situation be compared with Dooley's. Last I checked Hart is the AD still and CBJ isn't having to go into homes his second recruiting year answering, and fighting off the new AD talk and all the rumors of how broke and messed up the AD is at UT. And we can go on and on and on about differences.
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[Spartacavolus]

Yeah because obviously our staff is awful at recruiting. :crazy:

It gets ridiculous at times.

 

[KBVol]

No way u can compare dooley A year ago vs this year. Dooley was gone and that was obvious throughout the season. Dooley went the commit when u r sure 100% route and when he was committed 100% too. He didn't seem to want to go the "hey we got a better player committing sooooo start looking around" route. Also dooley nver had the ability to sign up 30+ kids in a year. The guy had to deal with being on probation and being hit with a loss of schollys due to it. Don't forget we have a lack of depth issue at LB because he had Santos and Peters poached last wknd before nsd. So that class would have been considered better. Plus a LB ready to get playing time asap in Santos.

No way in the world can CBJs recruiting situation be compared with Dooley's. Last I checked Hart is the AD still and CBJ isn't having to go into homes his second recruiting year answering, and fighting off the new AD talk and all the rumors of how broke and messed up the AD is at UT. And we can go on and on and on about differences.
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Well, actually, I can and I will. Dooley attempted to recruit top players to a broken program largely of his own doing.... and failed.

Butch has attempted to recruit top players to a broken program largely of Dooley's doing.... and appears to be wildly succeeding.

There... I compared it.

 

[Oskie Volum]

Somewhat surprisingly, I largely agree with you on Auburn's offense. There will be a lot of defensive coordinators thoroughly dissecting that offense in the offseason. When they make the appropriate adjustments, it is going to take more than three basic running plays, run from a multitude of formations (which, according to Malzahn, accounted for 80% of the running plays against Alabama) and a passing game utilized only 10-15 times a game to generate the same level of offensive effectiveness.

Yeah kind of the same thing some like me were saying about Sumlins O with Manziel last year. Teams adjusted and the aggies didn't have the same kind of season. Now once johnny goes to the NFL sumlin will have to prove he actually deserves the money a&m got hood-winked into giving him.

Thing is with Auburn and u touched it in ur post is that they will have to do more than just a few plays to win next season. For an Offensive mind like Malzhan that's really not a bad place to be in. He hasn't shown all his cards and he can easily mix it up with a whole bunch of stuff. ATP it seems he is going to be a head of those coordinators trying to break down his O. Am I giving him more credit than he deserves...who knows?? But I'm not going to bet against him at this pt. The guy is now a HC at a big program. He has talent out the wazoo on campus, and replenishing the cupboard like crazy. The only concern he has is having some bammer rat them out enough to get the NCAA on campus, but then a barner would do the same in return. Side note: my money goes on bama and auburn bring each other down if it ever happens. Just sayin...

My best bet as a d-coordinator would be to go all the way back and study all his different styles of Os. From being a coordinator to when at arky st, heck even HS, to see all of them and figure out how he progressed to see different ways he thinks. In a nut shell this guy needs to be studied and not just focus on how to break his current style. By the time we play him next year that style could already be broken, and he has the ability to change it up during the season. CBJ and staff need to know every tell the guy has.

Heck even break down tape from the Army/Navy game. Beating Auburn isn't going to be about speed like so many on here like to think was the problem this year. It's going to be about coaching, and player development. Which is my concern about with the current staff.
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[Oskie Volum]

Well, actually, I can and I will. Dooley attempted to recruit top players to a broken program largely of his own doing.... and failed.

Butch has attempted to recruit top players to a broken program largely of Dooley's doing.... and appears to be wildly succeeding.

There... I compared it.

That's just foolish. Anyone that blames dooley for largely causing the issues from day 1 at UT is being bias and a fool.

Not surprised u didn't counter any of my actual differences though.
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[butchna]

Well, actually, I can and I will. Dooley attempted to recruit top players to a broken program largely of his own doing.... and failed.

Butch has attempted to recruit top players to a broken program largely of Dooley's doing.... and appears to be wildly succeeding.

There... I compared it.

By responding to him you've entered your name on his list of POSTERS STALKING HIM
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[KBVol]

That's just foolish. Anyone that blames dooley for largely causing the issues from day 1 at UT is being bias and a fool.

Not surprised u didn't counter any of my actual differences though.
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Nobody else was surprised. They were predictably ridiculous....

 

[KBVol]

By responding to him you've entered your name on his list of POSTERS STALKING HIM
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I know, damnit...I know. Just couldn't leave well enough alone this morning.

 

[KBVol]

Yeah, you have to be impressed with Malzahn and his staff and the way he can just cherry pick commits from less successful coaches. On the other hand, has our staff ever flipped a guy who was committed to another SEC school?

I know you asked this question feeling comfortable that the answer was no.

Yes..... "Our staff" has flipped a recruit to UT from an SEC school....flipped Malik Foreman from Vanderbilt last year.

 

[Oskie Volum]

Nobody else was surprised. They were predictably ridiculous....

Or predictably over ur head. Just pathetic as always u and ur bf buchha r.
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[KBVol]

That's just foolish. Anyone that blames dooley for largely causing the issues from day 1 at UT is being bias and a fool.

Not surprised u didn't counter any of my actual differences though.
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Actually never said anything about from Day 1.... just directly implied that he took a broken program after the stupid way Kiffin fled from the program and made it worse.

Why? Because of all of the valid, well thought out, legitimate reasons that the majority of regular posters have enumerated on here over...and over...and over again.

I'll sum it up quickly.... alienated former players, harmed if not downright destroyed relationships with very important high school coaches, turned off incredibly important legacy recruits such as Kelly, Bates and Wharton to the point that they publicly declared they would not attend the only school they ever dreamed about playing for because of him.....

And finally, and perhaps most importantly, lost at an unprecedented, historical rate.... 3 losing seasons in a row..... Leaving the next coach with a slow, out of shape, mentally weak, defeated football team and a pissed off fanbase starving for any glimpse of hope that his regime all but completely snuffed out.

That's the Dooley legacy. He didn't make the program better. He set it back who knows how long..... only time will tell.

 

[KBVol]

Or predictably over ur head. Just pathetic as always u and ur bf buchha r.
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There you go. Need to deal with that repressed anger. I've noticed when you disagree with guys on this subject, you're the one who starts the mud slinging and name calling. Sticks and stones chief.... Sticks and stones. Going back to gliding on past your posts now..... makes the VN experience much more enjoyable. Merry Christmas Oskie.

 

[sjt18]

Well, actually, I can and I will. Dooley attempted to recruit top players to a broken program largely of his own doing.... and failed.

Butch has attempted to recruit top players to a broken program largely of Dooley's doing.... and appears to be wildly succeeding.

There... I compared it.

I think Jones is doing a better job also but Dooley did not break the program. He took over a program in worse shape than Jones did.

 

[oregonvol]

I know you asked this question feeling comfortable that the answer was no.

Yes..... "Our staff" has flipped a recruit to UT from an SEC school....flipped Malik Foreman from Vanderbilt last year.

No. I asked the question because I was genuinely curious. Good to know we can at least still steal recruits from Vanderbilt.

 

[sjt18]

That's the Dooley legacy. He didn't make the program better. He set it back who knows how long..... only time will tell.

Dooley couldn't coach. He did however leave Jones a team with depth and talent on the DL and OL. Two quality RB's. Two talented QB's. Two NFL caliber LB's including Maggitt. And as many or more athletes to work with in the secondary. WR was the one area where he did not leave it good. He inherited a couple of quality WR's and not a whole lot else that he and his first staff didn't have to develop and manipulate to try to compete.

Dooley inherited an NCAA cloud. Jones did not.

Dooley inherited a ton of off the field issues. Jones did not.

The national image of the program with the firing of Fulmer and the departure of Kiffin was VERY low when Dooley took over. When Jones took over it was just a historic program in a slump but poised to recover with the right coach.

AD was on a hot seat when Dooley arrived. Was not when Jones arrived.

Facilities were behind the top of the SEC when Dooley arrived. They are among the best in the country now.