2020 Presidential Race

[FLVOL_79]

I hold Trump's public statements/press conferences in pretty low regard. I'm one of those who has posted that I wish he would just STFU. Check my recent posting history or even earlier. Trump's issues are ego driven, he thinks too much about himself and his abilities, Biden's issues appear to be caused by the onset of senility and he thinks too much of his abilities now as compared to 20, er, 12 years ago. I guess it's more of a case of pick your poison.

But really the person doesn't matter all that much, it's the policies they bring with them once elected, that really matter. That's really where our differences are.

You have to say "Check my stats" on Volnation to be believed.

 

[37L1]

You have to say "Check my stats" on Volnation to be believed.

Right, but I thought that was for the hire Gruden thread.

 

[BowlBrother85]

What's the difference in voting or a full parking lot at Home Depot, Lowes, or Kroger ??

The Democratic Primary vote isn't necessary. Joe Biden is already the presumptive nominee of the Democratic Party for President. He is the only candidate even still in the race. It's over. I assume any trips made to Home Depot, Lowe's or Kroger's have some need behind it.

 

[LouderVol]

It's really not so dumb when you think about it. What Amash does is give people opposed to Trump but realize Biden isn't the answer an alternative. I still don't think he will have much of an impact but what little he has will likely be at the detriment of Biden.

I think like most candidates he is setting himself for 2024. He needs to be seen challenging Trump. Our system isnt going to be any less broke without Trump.

I have yet to see anything on his website to say what type of campaign he wants to run. But he has to establish himself first. As an independent he cant sell his support like the Ds did to gain a job that gives them credibility going forward.

The type of math we saw in the last election says we arent far from seeing these smaller guys steal an EC or two. And once that happens the babies who cry about their validity will have something new to consider. Third-party candidates took a small but significant chunk of votes
Even just weighting the scales a bit will help gain recognition. Especially if we see more faithless electors.

 

[hog88]

I think like most candidates he is setting himself for 2024. He needs to be seen challenging Trump. Our system isnt going to be any less broke without Trump.

I have yet to see anything on his website to say what type of campaign he wants to run. But he has to establish himself first. As an independent he cant sell his support like the Ds did to gain a job that gives them credibility going forward.

The type of math we saw in the last election says we arent far from seeing these smaller guys steal an EC or two. And once that happens the babies who cry about their validity will have something new to consider. Third-party candidates took a small but significant chunk of votes
Even just weighting the scales a bit will help gain recognition. Especially if we see more faithless electors.

Amash will end up like Johnson, a perennial 3rd party candidate that gets lost in the shuffle. I hope I'm wrong but that's what's likely to happen.

If Biden or any other D candidate wins this November our recovery will be delayed for years. Anyone of them will be itching to pass some type of signature anti-business legislation that will stymie confidence and stunt growth. Trump ain't the best but at least he is business friendly and right now we need someone who will stay the F out of the private sectors way.

 

[BowlBrother85]

It's really not so dumb when you think about it. What Amash does is give people opposed to Trump but realize Biden isn't the answer an alternative. I still don't think he will have much of an impact but what little he has will likely be at the detriment of Biden.

In theory, that is correct. As a practical matter, Justin Amash doesn't have the name recognition or the budget necessary to put forth a viable candidacy as either a libertarian, or as an independent. He could have a slight impact in Michigan, but probably not enough to change the outcome of the whole state. Biden looks to have a pretty solid lead right now in Michigan.

 

[volfanjustin]

He left the Rs behind and hasnt joined the Ds. What establishment does he represent?

He just enjoys being talked about by the few people who actually know who he is. 0% chance to get elected

 

[hog88]

In theory, that is correct. As a practical matter, Justin Amash doesn't have the name recognition or the budget necessary to put forth a viable candidacy as either a libertarian, or as an independent. He could have a slight impact in Michigan, but probably not enough to change the outcome of the whole state. Biden looks to have a pretty solid lead right now in Michigan.

So did Hillary.

 

[LouderVol]

Amash will end up like Johnson, a perennial 3rd party candidate that gets lost in the shuffle. I hope I'm wrong but that's what's likely to happen.

If Biden or any other D candidate wins this November our recovery will be delayed for years. Anyone of them will be itching to pass some type of signature anti-business legislation that will stymie confidence and stunt growth. Trump ain't the best but at least he is business friendly and right now we need someone who will stay the F out of the private sectors way.

Like Amash. It only gets better if we vote for better.

I think how he presents himself coming out of the gate will be huge. Johnson has always been that crazy guy that just seems to tub everyone wrong in some different way. If Amash can present himself as a candidate akin to what we see from the parties he can make himself legitimate.

But I think it pretty much has to be now. I think voter enthusiasm and turnout will be low again. Amash would have started even deeper in the hole if there were valid candidates running that would have drawn in more voters.

 

[BowlBrother85]

So did Hillary.

According to the most recent poll conducted by Fox News, Joe Biden leads Donald Trump by 8 points in the state of Michigan ( 49% to 41% ). I don't remember Hillary Clinton's lead in Michigan being that much. I know it wasn't that high the week before the election.... it may have been six months out, I don't remember. You have to remember that Hillary Clinton lost Michigan badly to Bernie Sanders in the 2016 primary. She was not popular at all in that state. Joe Biden defeated Bernie Sanders easily in Michigan, however.

 

[hog88]

Like Amash. It only gets better if we vote for better.

I think how he presents himself coming out of the gate will be huge. Johnson has always been that crazy guy that just seems to tub everyone wrong in some different way. If Amash can present himself as a candidate akin to what we see from the parties he can make himself legitimate.

But I think it pretty much has to be now. I think voter enthusiasm and turnout will be low again. Amash would have started even deeper in the hole if there were valid candidates running that would have drawn in more voters.

Amash gives me an alternative to Jill so I'll throw my vote that way. I just don't see him ever being relevant in national politics unless he somehow can run for the R nomination in 2024.

 

[LouderVol]

He just enjoys being talked about by the few people who actually know who he is. 0% chance to get elected

The US is more than a bandwagon. You shouldnt support a candidate whose only selling factor is the ability to win. It's how we almost got Hilary. Everytime you and everyone else goes out to just vote a winner in you make it worse.

Look at the D support for Biden. Why? They ALL admit that it's because he stands the best chance against Trump. That's pathetic.

 

[LouderVol]

Amash gives me an alternative to Jill so I'll throw my vote that way. I just don't see him ever being relevant in national politics unless he somehow can run for the R nomination in 2024.

Look at the party leadership. Who else is there? Trump beat everyone else and none of them are trying now. Like I said i think it's important that Amash establishes himself as the anti Trump conservative.

I doubt he will do it but if I am Amash I am making a straight run at the electors. Establish himself in their minds as the guy that actually makes sense as president. Instead of *shrug Trump* or *shrug Biden*. He is trying to shoot the moon with this election, but even if he ends up way short, getting a group of "faithless electors" to get him a block of EC votes would sell in 2024.

 

[Orange_Vol1321]

The Democratic Primary vote isn't necessary. Joe Biden is already the presumptive nominee of the Democratic Party for President. He is the only candidate even still in the race. It's over. I assume any trips made to Home Depot, Lowe's or Kroger's have some need behind it.

What else was on these ballots?? No district races?

 

[BowlBrother85]

The US is more than a bandwagon. You shouldnt support a candidate whose only selling factor is the ability to win. It's how we almost got Hilary. Everytime you and everyone else goes out to just vote a winner in you make it worse.

Look at the D support for Biden. Why? They ALL admit that it's because he stands the best chance against Trump. That's pathetic.

What you call "pathetic", we call "practical". It would depend on your perspective. Famed conservative columnist William F. Buckley (he founded National Review), used to say that Republicans should vote for the most conservative candidate WHO CAN WIN. There is nothing pathetic about making a candidate's political viability a primary factor behind a vote.

 

[hog88]

Look at the party leadership. Who else is there? Trump beat everyone else and none of them are trying now. Like I said i think it's important that Amash establishes himself as the anti Trump conservative.

I doubt he will do it but if I am Amash I am making a straight run at the electors. Establish himself in their minds as the guy that actually makes sense as president. Instead of *shrug Trump* or *shrug Biden*. He is trying to shoot the moon with this election, but even if he ends up way short, getting a group of "faithless electors" to get him a block of EC votes would sell in 2024.

It will be a mistake for Amash to go down the road of anti-Trump. He would be better off establishing himself as a competent and truly fiscal conservative because we will need that in another 4 years.

Amash isn't getting a single electoral vote, you need to get that notion out of your head.

 

[BowlBrother85]

What else was on these ballots?? No district races?

I'm sure there were... but there just aren't many viable primary challenges made in either party. The ones that are made are usually nothing more than a token challenge in nature.

 

[utvolpj]

Amash just needs to get in the debates to set up 2024

 

[hog88]

Amash just needs to get in the debates to set up 2024

I doubt he gets in any.

 

[volfanjustin]

The US is more than a bandwagon. You shouldnt support a candidate whose only selling factor is the ability to win. It's how we almost got Hilary. Everytime you and everyone else goes out to just vote a winner in you make it worse.

Look at the D support for Biden. Why? They ALL admit that it's because he stands the best chance against Trump. That's pathetic.

I fully support Trump, not because he's a R but because he had this economy roaring. I totally disagree how he has handled the CV-19 and certainly disagree with him on a few things but overall he has been a great President.

 

[evillawyer]

Although hyperbolic, he makes a good point. Many Biden voters (like me) will be motivated not by having Biden but by NOT having Trump.

 

[LouderVol]

What you call "pathetic", we call "practical". It would depend on your perspective. Famed conservative columnist William F. Buckley (he founded National Review), used to say that Republicans should vote for the most conservative candidate WHO CAN WIN. There is nothing pathetic about making a candidate's political viability a primary factor behind a vote.

I would argue that viability means something different than the way it's used now.

Trump wasnt viable when he first announced. He had to build it.

I think the viability Amash needs to aim towards is as president. Not as a candidate. All politicians now are just professional campaigners. That's not viable or sustainable as we have seen if you want actual leadership.

The campaign viability gets built over time as you get tested, again see Trump 2016. Just because Trump is the incumbent I dont think Amash can win 2020, but I believe he can use this race to establish his viability as a candidate going forward.

I would argue he is the only viable president we have running.

 

[LouderVol]

It will be a mistake for Amash to go down the road of anti-Trump. He would be better off establishing himself as a competent and truly fiscal conservative because we will need that in another 4 years.

Amash isn't getting a single electoral vote, you need to get that notion out of your head.

That's what I mean with being anti Trump. That's what i have told Luther for months. They need to sell the traits that are Anti Trump, and not stoop to Trumps level of being literally anti Trump.

Amash has to do the same thing. I see it as "dress for the job you want, not the job you have" type of mindset.

 

[BowlBrother85]

I would argue that viability means something different than the way it's used now.

Trump wasnt viable when he first announced. He had to build it.

I think the viability Amash needs to aim towards is as president. Not as a candidate. All politicians now are just professional campaigners. That's not viable or sustainable as we have seen if you want actual leadership.

The campaign viability gets built over time as you get tested, again see Trump 2016. Just because Trump is the incumbent I dont think Amash can win 2020, but I believe he can use this race to establish his viability as a candidate going forward.

I would argue he is the only viable president we have running.

A campaign's viability comes with exposure and having a national presence. That was never a problem for the reality/game show host.

 

[LouderVol]

I fully support Trump, not because he's a R but because he had this economy roaring. I totally disagree how he has handled the CV-19 and certainly disagree with him on a few things but overall he has been a great President.

I think by the time Novembr rolls around it's going to be difficult to remember the positives of Trump vs the reality of the virus.

Trump isnt going to be looking at a 2016 type of set up where the worst was past us even if we weren't in the good yet. We are going to be neck deep in the bad that will at least partially be on Trump.