2024 Presidential Race

[LSU-SIU]

Opinions as facts is not a job. It’s an opinion. Being an extension to a party, is not their job. Accountability is their job.

That is what you wish, that is not the facts. A wish is not a fact. They are doing their job, you just don't like their job.

Accountability is their job.

That is simply what you want to them to do.

 

[Majors]

Clay did a commercial over a decade ago when he hosted a sports talk show on 104.5. It was about his hair restoration and how it helped him land a hottie for a wife. No sh**. It's easily viewable

He’s never denied he “Outkicked” his coverage…background behind the name that’s made him millions.

 

[Majors]

That is what you wish, that is not the facts. A wish is not a fact. They are doing their job, you just don't like their job.



That is simply what you want to them to do.

Sure it is. If one can understand that Trump disrupted the media status quo, then the same can handle the truth not being told.

 

[OrangeTsar]

Some truth in that post.
Since trump came on the scene in 2016 (which is when and why I came to the PF to begin with), I have had one primary objective - the defeat of trumpism.

And 8 years later....................here we are.

I really wish someone could explain to be exactly what „Trumpism“ is and what separates it from the „normal“ conservatism that the Republicans have at least pretended to follow ever since Reagan.
Honest question

 

[LSU-SIU]

Sure it is. If one can understand that Trump disrupted the media status quo, then the same can handle the truth not being told.

Trump exposed the lies that have been going on since the mid-80s (although they had been going on before that just not at scale) i.e. which is why they are all against him.

One coin, two sides (D and R). He's not on the coin, of course Romney sure did help expose the scam as well.

They're not getting paid to tell the Truth, actually most of the time the opposite when it matters.

 

[OrangeTsar]

lol.....The media wasn't left wing.

Ultimate truth understandably appears to have a liberal bias.

It's called the evolution of mankind.

I have always sort of seen it as the exact opposite. Conservatives value facts and reality over the wishful thinking of the liberal mind.
Not that a healthy society doesn’t need both to function (which is why I don’t ever want to see either side totally win the battle, even my own).
Liberals see the world as being broken and in need of improvement (and that speaks to their credit). But they are prone to try all kinds of wild experiments to try and improve things without considering the unintended consequences. Conservatives provide a needed brake by reminding people of the reality of things that have worked in the past.
We need both.
Liberalism without conservatives ultimately results in a simplistic pie in the sky dystopia like you saw in the former Soviet Union or in Venezuela today.
And Conservatism without liberals results in a stagnant world in which everyone is afraid to try anything new and therefore things never improve.
It’s like a car that needs both a gas pedal and a brake. If you take away the first, you don’t go anywhere and if you take away the second, you go flying off a cliff.
America has succeeded so well because we alternate between the two extremes every 20 to 40 years.
I vote conservative now because I think the liberals are pushing too far too quickly. I respect people who see it differently as long as they have put some thought into it; which I think most of the liberals here on VN have done (at least since we dispensed with dear old Turbo )

 

[StarRaider]

 

[luthervol]

I really wish someone could explain to be exactly what „Trumpism“ is and what separates it from the „normal“ conservatism that the Republicans have at least pretended to follow ever since Reagan.
Honest question

It's designed to be divisive and take advantage of people's worst instincts. It derives power from an angry, bitter, and ill-informed society - by design.

Trumpism intentionally and by design paints the other side as the "enemy that should be hated and must be defeated" instead of "fellow Americans with different opinions who we can work with and find compromise."

...........even within their own party.

It's rooted in ignorance, misinformation, and false equivalencies.

 

[luthervol]

I have always sort of seen it as the exact opposite. Conservatives value facts and reality over the wishful thinking of the liberal mind.
Not that a healthy society doesn’t need both to function (which is why I don’t ever want to see either side totally win the battle, even my own).
Liberals see the world as being broken and in need of improvement (and that speaks to their credit). But they are prone to try all kinds of wild experiments to try and improve things without considering the unintended consequences. Conservatives provide a needed brake by reminding people of the reality of things that have worked in the past.
We need both.
Liberalism without conservatives ultimately results in a simplistic pie in the sky dystopia like you saw in the former Soviet Union or in Venezuela today.
And Conservatism without liberals results in a stagnant world in which everyone is afraid to try anything new and therefore things never improve.
It’s like a car that needs both a gas pedal and a brake. If you take away the first, you don’t go anywhere and if you take away the second, you go flying off a cliff.
America has succeeded so well because we alternate between the two extremes every 20 to 40 years.
I vote conservative now because I think the liberals are pushing too far too quickly. I respect people who see it differently as long as they have put some thought into it; which I think most of the liberals here on VN have done (at least since we dispensed with dear old Turbo )

I agree that each party keeps the other in check.....and that it is critical that neither party have unchecked power for any period of time.

 

[Septic]

They are just the same as the Dems. they hate the fake news, lies, and misinformation when it hurts their side.

when its their side doing it, they are all for it. neither side actually wants to see it fixed, they just want their turn being the bully.

the adult mindset in the GOP party officially died with Trump. it was on its last legs before, but Trump ended it. it was gone from the Dems before, which is why you saw so many GOP voters liking Trump because he was a Dem rebranded as an R, but acted like a Dem. Trump was the option to fight back, not be better, or actually avoid the issue. they wanted him because he crawled down in the muck and returned fire with the Dems. and the GOP has followed him gladly. they became the "I know you are, but what am I" party, with no real direction or leadership.

Its why the Dems stick to identity politics. you can't criticize them because its racist, sexit, agist, bigotry, whatever. they are the kids who hit you, and when you retaliate they go hide behind their parent. or are always calling timeout when something bad is about to happen to them. can't have a real adult conversation about why you think a secret bill that only like 5 people have seen shouldn't become law. No, any criticism whatsoever and you were racist against Obama if you didn't want ACA to happen.

I don't disagree in principle, but it was the maga folks who started the #fakenews trope to undermine the media as it related to criticizing trump.

 

[OrangeTsar]

It's designed to be divisive and take advantage of people's worst instincts. It derives power from an angry, bitter, and ill-informed society - by design.

Trumpism intentionally and by design paints the other side as the "enemy that should be hated and must be defeated" instead of "fellow Americans with different opinions who we can work with and find compromise."

...........even within their own party.

It's rooted in ignorance, misinformation, and false equivalencies.

I can see that in many of my fellow conservatives. Can you see the same tendencies in some of your fellow travelers?

I think conservatives are so angry because for the last two decades, we have been called racists, bigoted Nazis even when we weren’t. The average conservative wants more than anything else simply to be left alone in peace (that is my approach at any rate). But the liberals and the media (but I repeat myself) even made out Super mild MITT ROMNEY to be the embodiment of fascism.
I feel the left never tried to compromise with us because they basically saw ANY degree of conservatism as inherently evil. The ultimate proof of that is that you will not find a single major media personality (outside of Fox) who will admit to being a true conservative (token show conservatives like the view of MSNBC trot out on occasion don’t count).
In cultured circles, it is considered a crime for someone to be a conservative.
So how are we supposed to work together when our mere existence is seen as a cancer on society?

 

[Septic]

It’s self explanatory… what he accuses the Right of the Left also does, with gusto

I love how the immediate reaction isn't to form an argument against my point, but to simply say "yeah but the left does it too."

Congratulations @LadyVolette, you're no better than the left. How does it feel?

 

[Septic]

I agree, I just think you are giving far too much credit to the left in this regard.

I'm not giving them any credit. The argument was about the accusations of censorship of lies when the same faction cried about #fakenews.

The whataboutisims of "the left does it too" aren't at the heart of the argument. They may very well "do it too" but they weren't out here undermining the "MSM" as being #fakenews.

 

[Septic]

Can you explain?

She explained what the poster child of a self-own whataboutism looks like.

 

[OrangeTsar]

I agree that each party keeps the other in check.....and that it is critical that neither party have unchecked power for any period of time.

Then since Democrats have held the White House for 12 of the last 16 years, don’t you think we are due some balance?

I mean, most of us aren’t nearly as bad as people on the left make us out to be. Like I say, just leave us in peace and we will not make any trouble (unless you try and convince my son in school that he is a girl).

 

[Septic]

Opinions as facts is not a job. It’s an opinion. Being an extension to a party, is not their job. Accountability is their job.

Their "job" is to drive ad revenue by appealing to as many viewers as possible.

Blurring opinion with news is the fastest way to providing that end through confirmation bias.

 

[C-south]

It's designed to be divisive and take advantage of people's worst instincts. It derives power from an angry, bitter, and ill-informed society - by design.

Trumpism intentionally and by design paints the other side as the "enemy that should be hated and must be defeated" instead of "fellow Americans with different opinions who we can work with and find compromise."

...........even within their own party.

It's rooted in ignorance, misinformation, and false equivalencies.

Sounds like something someone with zero self awareness would say.

 

[Septic]

I really wish someone could explain to be exactly what „Trumpism“ is and what separates it from the „normal“ conservatism that the Republicans have at least pretended to follow ever since Reagan.
Honest question

class and dignity.

 

[OrangeTsar]

I don't disagree in principle, but it was the maga folks who started the #fakenews trope to undermine the media as it related to criticizing trump.

Do you disagree with this assertion that I am about to make?
98% of the news media (outside of Fox) are democrats and that at least 75% of them have never voted for any Republican even in local elections?
It is crystal clear that they have picked a side.

 

[Vol8188]

Yeah, but that wouldn't be nearly as damaging as the light he has cast upon himself with his crazy rhetoric

The media successfully smeared Romney without crazy rhetoric.

 

[OrangeTsar]

class and dignity.

So if someone ran for President with the exact same policies as Trump but did so with class and dignity (like Reagan perhaps), would you vote for him or her this November?
That is, is Trumpism all about the personality and not the policy?
Another honest question. No trolling meant.
I too greatly dislike Trump‘s personality. Which is why I have never voted for him in a primary. I always think we have better candidates to put forward.

 

[OrangeTsar]

The media successfully smeared Romney without crazy rhetoric.

Pretty much did the same with John McCain

 

[Vol8188]

Imagine a reporter not wanting to see lies, sorry "misinformation" reported?

It's strange, you guys seem to hate "fake news" but then get outraged over obvious lies being reported as truth and call it "censorship."

Can you guys pick a lane?

How is suppressing information not “censorship”?

 

[Septic]

Do you disagree with this assertion that I am about to make?
98% of the news media (outside of Fox) are democrats and that at least 75% of them have never voted for any Republican even in local elections?
It is crystal clear that they have picked a side.

Fox started and perfected opinion news commentaries, the rest all raced like hell to come up with a competing product - none of them matched or could ever hope to match what Fox did.

They picked the left side because it was the low hanging fruit. I guarantee that MSNBC would be the first to go hard right on its commentary if Fox ceased to exist overnight. It would be a race to fill the void.

You guys think it's personal. That's wrong, it's only about the money.

 

[Septic]

How is suppressing information not “censorship”?

It is, technically speaking. Just don't ever bitch about #fakenews again.

You can't have it both ways.