2024 Presidential Race

[whodeycin85]

I'll have to take you at your word.
We seem to view the killing of other through a "was it justified" lens.
A lot of people view Che favorably when they use that same lens.

I'll admit I knew maybe recognition but not the details...I know china and Romania were they countries but not what they were know for exactly.... But with Che, like louder pointed out... His ideals and actions go against what leftist on America believe yet they champion him... Send strange to me

 

[FLVOL_79]

Which “list of 20 most influential figures of the 20th Century”? You could ask 100 historians to produce such a list and you would get 20 totally different lists with probably in excess of 1000 unique names. There is not an easily rankable “influence score” one can consult.
But seriously, I would like to know which list you consulted. It sounds like maybe a time magazine thing?

"I had a great education" might mean something different for Luther when compared to literally everyone else.

Thats like saying the guy in Green Day is a great guitarist after you just learned how to play Mary Had a Little Lamb on your new Bender Blyatocaster you picked up on Amazon.

 

[LouderVol]

I'm confident they do not.

ignorance is a B that way.

but it is much easier to pretend your side is better when you just plead ignorance to all the well documented issues with it.

 

[OrangeTsar]

Fewer than the amount who died on the Trail of Tears.

Indeed. And I would definitely put Andrew Jackson high on my list of 19th Century influential people.
I think my point is that these lists are highly subjective and invariably be reflective of what the list creator is versed in.
I think it was just a bit unexpected to see Che not being on someone’s radar, especially in a politics forum. Not a ding on you just surprising. It sounds like you probably attended college in the 80e as I did. It seemed like I couldn’t got 10 minutes on campus without seeing a Che t-shirt, poster, or flyer. But then again, I roomed for four years with two political science majors.
It would be interesting to see what lists we VN regulars came up with. Che MIGHT make my top 100 but not my top 20z
Maybe I can spend a few minutes on my list after work today. But it HAS to include Jim Varney. KnowWhutIMean Vern?

 

[McDad]

Good grief..........It's like my analogy earlier.
Quick - Who was the offensive guard/team captain on the 98 Vols championship team?


If you don't know.....you must not even know that TN won the championship that year.

Please tell me you see how stupid that "reasoning" is.

You'd be better off by just explaining you were oblivious during college. Nothing nefarious, just not observant.

But that wouldn't be agitating to others.

 

[luthervol]

ignorance is a B that way.

but it is much easier to pretend your side is better when you just plead ignorance to all the well documented issues with it.

lol...........Like Batista didn't also kill thousands.
It's a little like the American Revolution being viewed differently between Americans and the Brits.

You think maybe the slant in public schools in the 60's and 70's was possibly a tad biased?

The view from the other side..................

For weeks the streets of Havana were filled with music and dancing to celebrate the demise of the ancien régime. Guerillas were offered free bus rides, meals, and alcohol wherever they went.
Che’s office was besieged by female admirers who lined up for hours hoping to see him; when he barred the door, they climbed through the windows.
Nobody knows the exact death toll of the seven years of Batista’s military rule. The figure 20,000 was offered by the director of Havana’s morgue in 1959, and accepted by the revolutionary government. Although the true number may be less, nobody disputes that the carnage was horrific.
Many Cubans saw American objections to the executions as rank hypocrisy. For seven agonizing years, the U.S. government had not breathed a word of protest against Batista’s regime, which had killed so many Cuban citizens. After Batista’s flight, mass graves were opened all over the island, full of corpses with broken limbs or missing eyes; many victims had been burned, strangled, disemboweled, or buried alive. Police stations were found to contain torture implements, including handmade tools designed for pulling nails and teeth, electrical wires that could be inserted into ears, and “fire seats”—perforated metal thrones under which flames mutilated genitalia. When Castro asked Cubans for a show of support for Operation Truth, a million demonstrators gathered in Havana to demand more executions and to express outrage at the Americans’ double standards.

 

[luthervol]

You'd be better off by just explaining you were oblivious during college. Nothing nefarious, just not observant.

But that wouldn't be agitating to others.

lol......Oblivious is actually my nickname.
It goes hand and hand with hyper focus.

 

[McDad]

lol......Oblivious is actually my nickname.
It goes hand and hand with hyper focus.

Adhd?

 

[hndog609]

Indeed. And I would definitely put Andrew Jackson high on my list of 19th Century influential people.
I think my point is that these lists are highly subjective and invariably be reflective of what the list creator is versed in.
I think it was just a bit unexpected to see Che not being on someone’s radar, especially in a politics forum. Not a ding on you just surprising. It sounds like you probably attended college in the 80e as I did. It seemed like I couldn’t got 10 minutes on campus without seeing a Che t-shirt, poster, or flyer. But then again, I roomed for four years with two political science majors.
It would be interesting to see what lists we VN regulars came up with. Che MIGHT make my top 100 but not my top 20z
Maybe I can spend a few minutes on my list after work today. But it HAS to include Jim Varney. KnowWhutIMean Vern?

He's really going out of his way to dodge the pop culture impact. He is a much bigger icon than he is historical figure. (not that he isn't that also) That photo of him on God knows how many posters/t-shirts/etc is literally one of the most famous in the history of ever. For instance this list per CNN. (he's #18 though I don't think there's any particular ranking)

https://www.cnn.com/2013/09/01/world/gallery/iconic-images/index.html

or here

the 24 most famous photographs ever taken - Photography Project

Famous photography – the most well known pictures and the people who took them. Does a photograph have the power to change the world? There are incredible photographers and journalists all around the world doing tremendous work reporting on the atrocities that happen on our planet, these people...

photographyproject.uk

This guy only had 54 receptions in his whole career and never more than 19 in a season but what person even brushing up against football doesn't know this particular catch?

 

[LSU-SIU]

This thread continues to deliver in a huge way even after the election. Nothing like a face diaper wearer explaining history to people while telling them they're all stupid, during the same time he apparently forgot he was getting Boosters.

 

[C-south]

Good grief..........It's like my analogy earlier.
Quick - Who was the offensive guard/team captain on the 98 Vols championship team?


If you don't know.....you must not even know that TN won the championship that year.

Please tell me you see how stupid that "reasoning" is.

You got a t shirt with a Tennessee offensive lineman from over 25 years ago on it?

 

[luthervol]

Adhd?

I missed that boat by at least 30 years.

 

[C-south]

lol......Oblivious is actually my nickname.
It goes hand and hand with hyper focus.

That’s a self soothing way of thinking about it. It actually goes hand in hand with something a bit different.

 

[LouderVol]

lol...........Like Batista didn't also kill thousands.
It's a little like the American Revolution being viewed differently between Americans and the Brits.

You think maybe the slant in public schools in the 60's and 70's was possibly a tad biased?

The view from the other side..................

For weeks the streets of Havana were filled with music and dancing to celebrate the demise of the ancien régime. Guerillas were offered free bus rides, meals, and alcohol wherever they went.
Che’s office was besieged by female admirers who lined up for hours hoping to see him; when he barred the door, they climbed through the windows.
Nobody knows the exact death toll of the seven years of Batista’s military rule. The figure 20,000 was offered by the director of Havana’s morgue in 1959, and accepted by the revolutionary government. Although the true number may be less, nobody disputes that the carnage was horrific.
Many Cubans saw American objections to the executions as rank hypocrisy. For seven agonizing years, the U.S. government had not breathed a word of protest against Batista’s regime, which had killed so many Cuban citizens. After Batista’s flight, mass graves were opened all over the island, full of corpses with broken limbs or missing eyes; many victims had been burned, strangled, disemboweled, or buried alive. Police stations were found to contain torture implements, including handmade tools designed for pulling nails and teeth, electrical wires that could be inserted into ears, and “fire seats”—perforated metal thrones under which flames mutilated genitalia. When Castro asked Cubans for a show of support for Operation Truth, a million demonstrators gathered in Havana to demand more executions and to express outrage at the Americans’ double standards.

Che being a terrible person is a completely standalone fact. If you didn't know about Che you most certainly didn't know about Batista, and him being crap doesn't excuse anything.

I have told you time and again, popularity is the worst form of justification in my world. absolutely abhorrent, especially in cases like this where the mob is used to justify atrocities.

considering my schooling days came much later the argument about time specific bias doesn't really hold up. there is a reason Obama's visit to Cuba with the Castro's wasn't seen as popular amongst American Cubanos.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

And you knew who Zhou Enlai and Nicolae Ceausescu were?

I absolutely do. You have removed any doubt that any of us had as to your propensity to lie about stuff that doesn't fit your narrative or exposes it for the filth that it is.

Che Guavara was a murderous thug that is idolized by the left. He killed hundreds if not thousands of people in the Marxist 'revolution'. The left - YOUR PEOPLE - idolize him because after he was caught, he dies of lead poisoning in a prison cell. He is viewed as a martyr by stupid young leftists. He was a murderous thug, nothing more who got exactly what he deserved.

And you are still a liar.

And all the **** you are trying is nothing more than deflection and false equivalency.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

"I had a great education" might mean something different for Luther when compared to literally everyone else.

Thats like saying the guy in Green Day is a great guitarist after you just learned how to play Mary Had a Little Lamb on your new Bender Blyatocaster you picked up on Amazon.

education and indoctrination are interchangeable to a Marxist like luther.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

lol...........Like Batista didn't also kill thousands.
It's a little like the American Revolution being viewed differently between Americans and the Brits.

You think maybe the slant in public schools in the 60's and 70's was possibly a tad biased?

The view from the other side..................

For weeks the streets of Havana were filled with music and dancing to celebrate the demise of the ancien régime. Guerillas were offered free bus rides, meals, and alcohol wherever they went.
Che’s office was besieged by female admirers who lined up for hours hoping to see him; when he barred the door, they climbed through the windows.
Nobody knows the exact death toll of the seven years of Batista’s military rule. The figure 20,000 was offered by the director of Havana’s morgue in 1959, and accepted by the revolutionary government. Although the true number may be less, nobody disputes that the carnage was horrific.
Many Cubans saw American objections to the executions as rank hypocrisy. For seven agonizing years, the U.S. government had not breathed a word of protest against Batista’s regime, which had killed so many Cuban citizens. After Batista’s flight, mass graves were opened all over the island, full of corpses with broken limbs or missing eyes; many victims had been burned, strangled, disemboweled, or buried alive. Police stations were found to contain torture implements, including handmade tools designed for pulling nails and teeth, electrical wires that could be inserted into ears, and “fire seats”—perforated metal thrones under which flames mutilated genitalia. When Castro asked Cubans for a show of support for Operation Truth, a million demonstrators gathered in Havana to demand more executions and to express outrage at the Americans’ double standards.

LOL and there it is.

Idolize the murderer.

I wish you'd move to Cuba.

 

[luthervol]

LOL and there it is.

Idolize the murderer.

I wish you'd move to Cuba.

And Brits hated Americans......get a clue

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

And Brits hated Americans......get a clue

Tell the truth

 

[OrangeTsar]

You got a t shirt with a Tennessee offensive lineman from over 25 years ago on it?

Speaking of ancient t-shirts….what I wouldn’t give to still have my 1980s Bloom County “Bill the CAT for President: America’s ill but so is Bill”. I wonder if some website still has those?

 

[C-south]

Speaking of ancient t-shirts….what I wouldn’t give to still have my 1980s Bloom County “Bill the CAT for President: America’s ill but so is Bill”. I wonder if some website still has those?

I bet it’s out there somewhere.

 

[OrangeTsar]

LOL and there it is.

Idolize the murderer.

I wish you'd move to Cuba.

Ironic that when people hear “mass murder”, they (rightly) usually first think of Adolf Hitler while the numbers of people murdered by socialists/communists in the 20th Century was at least an order of magnitude higher. Adolf was a mere tinkerer when compared to Mao and Stalin.

 

[LouderVol]

And Brits hated Americans......get a clue

got anything to back that up?

The peace treaty we signed with the British was pretty favorable to them and their businesses. They were still able to make money off of us, just not taxes. in fact they made so much money off of us they were able to bring India under their thumb.

 

[OrangeTsar]

I bet it’s out there somewhere.

I really wanted it when Clinton ran. “America’s ill but so is Bill” just seemed so appropriate at the time. (Full disclose, I voted for Clinton then)

 

[C-south]

I really wanted it when Clinton ran. “America’s ill but so is Bill” just seemed so appropriate at the time. (Full disclose, I voted for Clinton then)