2024 Recruiting Thread

[madtownvol]

This debate hinges on emotional ties to how it used to be rather than the realities of recruiting .

NIL deals and the transfer portal have completely changed the game.

A good to great player is a good to great player whether they are recruited out of high school or come through the portal. In many cases, the transfer has a leg up because of having experience at college competition.

One model is not more inherently sustainable than the other. The choice is not between "we have blue chip recruits coming through the pipeline on a regular and planned basis versus let us pray that a transfer likes us.

HS recruiting is hyper competitive and getting more so with NILs.

Conversely, the idea that Harper keeps saving her job year after year through "luck" or "miracles" via the transfer portal actually suggest that indeed, it is not luck or miracles. Rather, she and the staff are actually quite good at playing the transfer portal game.

The evidence also shows that she and her staff have not been as proficient with recruits coming out of HS and her success in one domain might have something to do with her struggles in the other.

Maybe her approach just works better with more mature players who don't have stars in their eyes from pie in the sky recruiting pitches

However, as long Coach Harper can keep putting quality players on the floor, it does not matter how they get here.

 

[chuckiepoo]

This debate hinges on emotional ties to how it used to be rather than the realities of recruiting .

NIL deals and the transfer portal have completely changed the game.

A good to great player is a good to great player whether they are recruited out of high school or come through the portal. In many cases, the transfer has a leg up because of having experience at college competition.

One model is not more inherently sustainable than the other. The choice is not between "we have blue chip recruits coming through the pipeline on a regular and planned basis versus let us pray that a transfer likes us.

HS recruiting is hyper competitive and getting more so with NILs.

Conversely, the idea that Harper keeps saving her job year after year through "luck" or "miracles" via the transfer portal actually suggest that indeed, it is not luck or miracles. Rather, she and the staff are actually quite good at playing the transfer portal game.

The evidence also shows that she and her staff have not been as proficient with recruits coming out of HS and her success in one domain might have something to do with her struggles in the other.

Maybe her approach just works better with more mature players who don't have stars in their eyes from pie in the sky recruiting pitches

However, as long Coach Harper can keep putting quality players on the floor, it does not matter how they get here.

Thank you for a centered take.

 

[Majors]

To be fair, KJH & staff were stuck in the mud on hs recruiting long before NIL. That's why she changed recruiting coordinators a few yrs ago. They've always lived in the 30-50 ranked zone and struggled to snag a top 20 fm hs. You could argue she's done better since NIL bc at least she's gotten an uber elite fm the portal, actually got RJ twice, and a couple of other probable elite gets (Jewel and Jill).

And do we actually "know" about these huge NIL giveaways or is that urban legend we're now just accepting as fact/excuse? Does Booster Barbie indeed hand over an envelope of cash to each recruit on move in day? Do they have to do anything for it? I feel like there's still so much I don't know about NIL. I'd love to see a factual report.

I swear I think it's as much about not winning championships and often not being competitive as it is about NIL. So back to my mantra: alot of what's wrong w hs recruiting would be fixed with a few damn elite wins. Let It Be.

I subscribe to the last part. NIL is a new built in excuse for those not accepting reality of not winning while losing recruits.

 

[WinnerCircle]

I love what I’m reading from LV fans that have the vision to see this is a new landscape in college sports!

Tennessee is about to put a product on the court that is a force to be reckon with!
GBO

 

[Coach Jumper]

Wow! So you believe the image of LV basketball can't stand on its own but needs to be protected. Every school gets rejected. It's a fact of recruiting.

we don't need to broadcast those rejections as if we're glorifying losing them

 

[Coach Jumper]

To be fair, KJH & staff were stuck in the mud on hs recruiting long before NIL. That's why she changed recruiting coordinators a few yrs ago. They've always lived in the 30-50 ranked zone and struggled to snag a top 20 fm hs. You could argue she's done better since NIL bc at least she's gotten an uber elite fm the portal, actually got RJ twice, and a couple of other probable elite gets (Jewel and Jill).

And do we actually "know" about these huge NIL giveaways or is that urban legend we're now just accepting as fact/excuse? Does Booster Barbie indeed hand over an envelope of cash to each recruit on move in day? Do they have to do anything for it? I feel like there's still so much I don't know about NIL. I'd love to see a factual report.

I swear I think it's as much about not winning championships and often not being competitive as it is about NIL. So back to my mantra: alot of what's wrong w hs recruiting would be fixed with a few damn elite wins. Let It Be.

good post,,,especially the ending
;o)

 

[J-Dog 1313]

good post,,,especially the ending
;o)

Agreed. GBO.

 

[chuckiepoo]

we don't need to broadcast those rejections as if we're glorifying losing them

Times have certainly changed but pretty sure Pat and Micki kept recruiting info pretty close to the vest.

 

[Knoxvol14]

I think you need to get some high school players, but in order to do that with the majority of elite players these days you have to have a NIL plan. Mulkey is not really out recruiting anybody the ones she is getting are from huge NIL offers. I guess if Kellie wants to be successful in high school recruiting NIL offers are going to need to be the way forward. If were not willing to go that route then I would look for very few elite high school recruits to be heading to Tennessee. Women's basketball seems to mean more to a few schools in 2023 than it does to Tennessee. I think she is doing a really good job keeping a competitive team here, but when you see players visiting three or more times then going elsewhere then you are probably getting outbid for their services. NIL may very well be the undoing of Coach Kellie's coaching career only time will tell.

Coaches can't be directly involved at this point in time in NIL negotiations. Also business and individuals have not stepped up to where we have elite NIL In wbb. They apparently have at LSU. We can't just complain about our NIL if we aren't willing to invest in it ourselves.

 

[Knoxvol14]

To be fair, KJH & staff were stuck in the mud on hs recruiting long before NIL. That's why she changed recruiting coordinators a few yrs ago. They've always lived in the 30-50 ranked zone and struggled to snag a top 20 fm hs. You could argue she's done better since NIL bc at least she's gotten an uber elite fm the portal, actually got RJ twice, and a couple of other probable elite gets (Jewel and Jill).

And do we actually "know" about these huge NIL giveaways or is that urban legend we're now just accepting as fact/excuse? Does Booster Barbie indeed hand over an envelope of cash to each recruit on move in day? Do they have to do anything for it? I feel like there's still so much I don't know about NIL. I'd love to see a factual report.

I swear I think it's as much about not winning championships and often not being competitive as it is about NIL. So back to my mantra: alot of what's wrong w hs recruiting would be fixed with a few damn elite wins. Let It Be.

If you are looking for facts, if the latest NIL legislation passes, every deal over $600 will have to be publicly disclosed. I think we see NIL become more of a level playing field over the next couple years with a few changes they are proposing.

 

[Coach Jumper]

If you are looking for facts, if the latest NIL legislation passes, every deal over $600 will have to be publicly disclosed. I think we see NIL become more of a level playing field over the next couple years with a few changes they are proposing.

a source/link would be appreciated

 

[Majors]

Coaches can't be directly involved at this point in time in NIL negotiations. Also business and individuals have not stepped up to where we have elite NIL In wbb. They apparently have at LSU. We can't just complain about our NIL if we aren't willing to invest in it ourselves.

LSU made their best investment in their HC. Get the leadership right the rest takes care of itself.

 

[Knoxvol14]

This debate hinges on emotional ties to how it used to be rather than the realities of recruiting .

NIL deals and the transfer portal have completely changed the game.

A good to great player is a good to great player whether they are recruited out of high school or come through the portal. In many cases, the transfer has a leg up because of having experience at college competition.

One model is not more inherently sustainable than the other. The choice is not between "we have blue chip recruits coming through the pipeline on a regular and planned basis versus let us pray that a transfer likes us.

HS recruiting is hyper competitive and getting more so with NILs.

Conversely, the idea that Harper keeps saving her job year after year through "luck" or "miracles" via the transfer portal actually suggest that indeed, it is not luck or miracles. Rather, she and the staff are actually quite good at playing the transfer portal game.

The evidence also shows that she and her staff have not been as proficient with recruits coming out of HS and her success in one domain might have something to do with her struggles in the other.

Maybe her approach just works better with more mature players who don't have stars in their eyes from pie in the sky recruiting pitches

However, as long Coach Harper can keep putting quality players on the floor, it does not matter how they get here.

This was a really good post, one of the best stated lately. Thank you!

 

[Knoxvol14]

a source/link would be appreciated

DI Council introduces proposals to boost student-athlete NIL protections - NCAA.org

The Division I Council on Tuesday unanimously voted to introduce several proposals intended to enhance student-athlete protections regarding their name, image and

www.ncaa.org

 

[Knoxvol14]

we don't need to broadcast those rejections as if we're glorifying losing them

That's whats being done I think.

 

[Knoxvol14]

DI Council introduces proposals to boost student-athlete NIL protections - NCAA.org

The Division I Council on Tuesday unanimously voted to introduce several proposals intended to enhance student-athlete protections regarding their name, image and

www.ncaa.org

Here is the other. I tagged you in that thread as well.

Schools eye rule changes, more NIL involvement

Colleges, in an effort to get more involved in helping athletes make money from endorsement deals, are considering changes to NCAA guidelines.

www.espn.com

Both of these small changes could really level the playing field halting what some programs are doing.

 

[Coach Jumper]

thank you

 

[Aladywhovolunteer]

Read an article in the Houston Chronicle last night. It's a subscription site, so I want post the link. Thought the article was germane to some of the NIL discussions.

The article was roughly titled Senator Cruiz speaks to A@M about guardrails for NIL

The part of the article that caught my attention was Texas A@M and the University of Texas' athletes have received $28 million in NIL payments in the two years since NIL began. Texas athletes have received the majority of that amount at $15 million.

First time I have seen dollar numbers published. Assume universities have to track.

 

[Darth_Vol]

Some of yall want us to live in y’all’s delusion so bad! Pack it upppppp!

Having to count on the portal when you don’t even know who’s going to be in there year after year is SO RISKY, and I’m trying to understand how some of yall don’t see that.

Way too logical for many here. As long as Kellie can keep cobbling together enough players to finish third in the conference and reach the Sweet 16 -- which is their most likely ceiling again this season -- a segment of the fanbase will continue trying to sell everyone else to their Kellie's master recruiting fantasyland...

 

[NeedOrange]

we don't need to broadcast those rejections as if we're glorifying losing them

Over 300 other schools were not chosen by the player. If you publish an offer you publish the result.
Heck Kate Koval got her own thread at the Boneyard when she chose ND.

Koval to Notre Dame!​

 

[Coach Jumper]

Over 300 other schools were not chosen by the player. If you publish an offer you publish the result.
Heck Kate Koval got her own thread at the Boneyard when she chose ND.

Koval to Notre Dame!​

We're not the connies

 

[1reVOLver]

If you are looking for facts, if the latest NIL legislation passes, every deal over $600 will have to be publicly disclosed. I think we see NIL become more of a level playing field over the next couple years with a few changes they are proposing.

Please let me correct some assumptions.
1) This is not NIL legislation. It is proposed NCAA regulation.
2) Nothing but aggregate data will be “publicly disclosed” if the proposed regulation is (a) adopted, and (b) is not found to be illegal.

Note the infelicitous terminology, deidentified. It is not clear that any of the information
would be made public. It would be available to the school and to that paragon of transparency,(snicker, chortle) the NCAA.

Lawyers would feast on this should the NCAA adopt it and try to require prospects and students to reveal the details of their personal contractual dealings.

Note also that the $600 figure is given only as an example of what might be included in the proposed regulation. They might opt for $1.00 or $2,500.00 or any other amount.



“Disclosure and transparency

For any NIL agreements exceeding a certain value (e.g., $600) student-athletes would be required to report specified information — possibly including a description of the arrangement, compensation received, services rendered, term length, etc. — to their school within 30 days of entering into or signing an agreement. If a service provider (i.e., agent) is involved in arranging an NIL deal, the name of the provider and nature of their agreement would also be disclosed.

For prospects, all current or previous NIL arrangements would be disclosed to a school prior to the school issuing a National Letter of Intent or written offer of athletics aid.

Information reported to schools would then be deidentified and aggregated by campuses and reported to the national office (or a third-party designee) at least twice per year.”

As usual, this is about the NCAA trying to assert control. I invite anyone on this board to enlighten us as to precisely how that obtuse, power-hungry outfit getting their grubby mitts on students’ private financial information will benefit the so-called “student athletes”.

 

[turbovol]

NIL needs to be regulated. Otherwise, it will be abused and players won't work or render services for the money they're being paid--which of course was what a lot of the cheating in major-college football and basketball was usually about--rich guys just giving kids money to sign with their school or as a reward for being a top player or somesuch. So without "guardrails," it will just devolve into legalized cheating, which is bull$hit.

And by regulated I mostly mean it needs to be monitored to see that deals are legit and are being legally executed by both parties. And who's going to do that? I don't know. If NIL is not regulated, it's just legalized cheating, which I suspect it is to a certain degree now. This is why offering NIL deals to top high-school prospects is, for me, corrupt. Recruiting the top prospects essentially becomes a bidding/bribery battle among schools. Is that REALLY want we want college athletics to be? Not me.

I have just read a summary of the Supreme Court decision that opened up this can of worms, and it astounds me in some ways. According to a summary by a law firm that has followed the issue, "the NCAA argued in the case that restrictions on education-related benefits were necessary to keep college sports distinct from professional sports through 'amateurism'--i.e., athletes who are uncompensated. But the Supreme Court disagreed, finding that relaxing restrictions on education-related benefits would not blur the distinction between college and professional sports. In fact, the Supreme Court pointed out that there was no evidence suggesting that academic awards would impair consumer interest in any way."

I'm not quite sure what that last sentence is supposed to mean, and I need to read the actual SCOTUS majority opinion, because I'm not sure what "education-related compensation" actually is. Paying student-athletes, or business deals for student-athletes, aren't what I'd describe as "education related," unless you have a very loose definition of the term. They are in college.

I don't think the SCOTUS case applied specifically to NIL, at least according to the synopsis I just read. It was about "education-related compensation" It mentions NIL as emerging separately and recently from state legislation--specifically bills passed by the states of Florida, Georgia and Alabama. They apparently were the first states to pass legislation enabling student-athletes to benefit from NIL deals. Southern/SEC schools: How funny! What a surprise! Not! And here's what's even funnier: Guess what state was next to try and pass pro-NIL legislation? How about...Ohio! Another not surprise! Apparently the legislation didn't pass in the Ohio legislature, for whatever reason--but the governor (perhaps an OSU alum?) penned an executive order permitting NIL deals for Ohio student-athletes. You don't think Ohio State and its well-connected boosters were going to let the SEC get a leg up on them via NIL, do you?

What astounds me is how SCOTUS justices, or anybody, could conclude that paying or giving money to student-athletes doesn't blur the distinction between college and professional sports. Of course it does. Pros are PAID. If you are paying college students, you've damn well blurred the distinction between college and pro sports--and of course EVERYBODY who follows major-college football and basketball has acknowledged for years that they've become quasi-professional in various ways.

For me, NIL deals for high-school prospects have to be strictly regulated or banned. Otherwise, you've turned recruiting into bribery contests, and that just means that the schools with the wealthiest/dirtiest boosters--the big schools for whom winning means the most (hello SEC plus Ohio State) will pay the most and get the best prospects. Indeed, the NCAA argued in Alston vs. the NCAA that restrictions on compensation were needed to //promote competition.// Its restrictions, it argued, were "pro-competitive." And that is EXACTLY right. Without them, the same 10/12 big-dog schools will buy all the top prospects and win all the games. One could point out that that's been the case anyway for a long time, and it's true: It's just that SEC schools plus OSU, Texas, Oklahoma, one or two others have used their top dollars for competitive advantage in all the other ways--better facilities, bigger recruiting budgets, more perks, etc.

The notion that the NCAA is "power-hungry" is nonsense. First, it's a member-driven organization. Major-college athletics has got crass, commercial, and, now, chaotic precisely because the NCAA has never had enough power to combat the commercialism that has corrupted major-college football.

We'll see how all this evolves.

 

[Voltopia]

NIL needs to be regulated. Otherwise, it will be abused and players won't work or render services for the money they're being paid--which of course was what a lot of the cheating in major-college football and basketball was usually about--rich guys just giving kids money to sign with their school or as a reward for being a top player or somesuch. So without "guardrails," it will just devolve into legalized cheating, which is bull$hit.

And by regulated I mostly mean it needs to be monitored to see that deals are legit and are being legally executed by both parties. And who's going to do that? I don't know. If NIL is not regulated, it's just legalized cheating, which I suspect it is to a certain degree now. This is why offering NIL deals to top high-school prospects is, for me, corrupt. Recruiting the top prospects essentially becomes a bidding/bribery battle among schools. Is that REALLY want we want college athletics to be? Not me.

I have just read a summary of the Supreme Court decision that opened up this can of worms, and it astounds me in some ways. According to a summary by a law firm that has followed the issue, "the NCAA argued in the case that restrictions on education-related benefits were necessary to keep college sports distinct from professional sports through 'amateurism'--i.e., athletes who are uncompensated. But the Supreme Court disagreed, finding that relaxing restrictions on education-related benefits would not blur the distinction between college and professional sports. In fact, the Supreme Court pointed out that there was no evidence suggesting that academic awards would impair consumer interest in any way."

I'm not quite sure what that last sentence is supposed to mean, and I need to read the actual SCOTUS majority opinion, because I'm not sure what "education-related compensation" actually is. Paying student-athletes, or business deals for student-athletes, aren't what I'd describe as "education related," unless you have a very loose definition of the term. They are in college.

I don't think the SCOTUS case applied specifically to NIL, at least according to the synopsis I just read. It was about "education-related compensation" It mentions NIL as emerging separately and recently from state legislation--specifically bills passed by the states of Florida, Georgia and Alabama. They apparently were the first states to pass legislation enabling student-athletes to benefit from NIL deals. Southern/SEC schools: How funny! What a surprise! Not! And here's what's even funnier: Guess what state was next to try and pass pro-NIL legislation? How about...Ohio! Another not surprise! Apparently the legislation didn't pass in the Ohio legislature, for whatever reason--but the governor (perhaps an OSU alum?) penned an executive order permitting NIL deals for Ohio student-athletes. You don't think Ohio State and its well-connected boosters were going to let the SEC get a leg up on them via NIL, do you?

What astounds me is how SCOTUS justices, or anybody, could conclude that paying or giving money to student-athletes doesn't blur the distinction between college and professional sports. Of course it does. Pros are PAID. If you are paying college students, you've damn well blurred the distinction between college and pro sports--and of course EVERYBODY who follows major-college football and basketball has acknowledged for years that they've become quasi-professional in various ways.

For me, NIL deals for high-school prospects have to be strictly regulated or banned. Otherwise, you've turned recruiting into bribery contests, and that just means that the schools with the wealthiest/dirtiest boosters--the big schools for whom winning means the most (hello SEC plus Ohio State) will pay the most and get the best prospects. Indeed, the NCAA argued in Alston vs. the NCAA that restrictions on compensation were needed to //promote competition.// Its restrictions, it argued, were "pro-competitive." And that is EXACTLY right. Without them, the same 10/12 big-dog schools will buy all the top prospects and win all the games. One could point out that that's been the case anyway for a long time, and it's true: It's just that SEC schools plus OSU, Texas, Oklahoma, one or two others have used their top dollars for competitive advantage in all the other ways--better facilities, bigger recruiting budgets, more perks, etc.

The notion that the NCAA is "power-hungry" is nonsense. First, it's a member-driven organization. Major-college athletics has got crass, commercial, and, now, chaotic precisely because the NCAA has never had enough power to combat the commercialism that has corrupted major-college football.

We'll see how all this evolves.

The Supreme Court decision was solely about the education-related benefits, but several of the justices made it clear during the hearings that they would rule against the NCAA on wider matters related to student-athletes and amateurism. Kavanaugh in particular drooled over the idea of ripping the NCAA apart on a future lawsuit related to athletes being paid, so much so that he brought it up during his remarks. So you take the Supreme Court being hostile, and you take the other private lawsuits, and then the states threatening to sue the NCAA, and the NCAA said "to hell with it, do whatever you want." And here we are. I don't particularly blame the NCAA for any of this. They did their best with the hand they were dealt, and had I been in their position, I too would have thrown up my hands about it. It was an unwinnable situation for them.

 

[sgacock]

If I were anointed the Czar of NIL, I would make the following rules:

The NIL fiscal year shall begin on June 1 and end on May 3 of each year.

1. TEAM NIL POOL. Each school (including private schools) shall publicly disclose on the first day of June of every year the lump sum amount of "Team NIL Pool" that it will pay to each sports team during the following year. It shall make equal payments to all team members in an amount equal to the number of scholarships that can be maintained for that sport. For example, Women basketball players would be entitled to monthly Team NIL payments equal to 1/15th of the Team Pool divided by 12 months payable for each month that they are enrolled in school. The amount of such monthly payments to team members shall be publicly disclosed. Funds not expended by the school due to dropouts, transfers etc. shall be carried over to the next year.

2. Recruiting High School prospects: Each team shall disclose to each high recruit contacted after June of her Junior year regarding Team NIL Pool fund shares that she would receive during her freshman year based upon the current year's publicly disclosed Team NIL Pool.

3. Recruiting Transfers: Each team shall disclose to each NCAA player who enters the Transfer Portal and contacts the school of the amount of TEAM NIL Pool money that the player would be entitled to receive for the remainder of the fiscal year (until June 1) if the player enrolls into the school before June 1.

4. INDIVIDUAL NIL FROM ENDORSEMENTS, SOCIAL MEDIA ETC. Individual NIL is all money that is paid to a player from third parties who are not boosters of a school for the USE of their name, image or likeness. Each school may employ a NIL Advisor to assist each player in arranging NIL opportunities for players who are enrolled in the school. The NIL adviser shall not have contact with any recruiting or transfer prospect. Nothing shall prevent a coach other than the NIL Advisor from discussing individual NIL opportunities obtained by past and current players but no coach shall i any way promise any individual NIL opportunities to any prospect.