2024 Recruiting Thread

The notion that the NCAA is "power-hungry" is nonsense. First, it's a member-driven organization. Major-college athletics has got crass, commercial, and, now, chaotic precisely because the NCAA has never had enough power to combat the commercialism that has corrupted major-college football.

I
Agree with Turbo , and expect some expert Straight talker will interject how wrong Turbo and I are, and I will smile.


will be interesting to read the "honest" disclosures of universities with boosters with deep pockets.


what would be the accomplishments, education and skill to be hired as a NIL university advisor at a power school?
 
NIL needs to be regulated. Otherwise, it will be abused and players won't work or render services for the money they're being paid--which of course was what a lot of the cheating in major-college football and basketball was usually about--rich guys just giving kids money to sign with their school or as a reward for being a top player or somesuch. So without "guardrails," it will just devolve into legalized cheating, which is bull$hit.

And by regulated I mostly mean it needs to be monitored to see that deals are legit and are being legally executed by both parties. And who's going to do that? I don't know. If NIL is not regulated, it's just legalized cheating, which I suspect it is to a certain degree now. This is why offering NIL deals to top high-school prospects is, for me, corrupt. Recruiting the top prospects essentially becomes a bidding/bribery battle among schools. Is that REALLY want we want college athletics to be? Not me.

I have just read a summary of the Supreme Court decision that opened up this can of worms, and it astounds me in some ways. According to a summary by a law firm that has followed the issue, "the NCAA argued in the case that restrictions on education-related benefits were necessary to keep college sports distinct from professional sports through 'amateurism'--i.e., athletes who are uncompensated. But the Supreme Court disagreed, finding that relaxing restrictions on education-related benefits would not blur the distinction between college and professional sports. In fact, the Supreme Court pointed out that there was no evidence suggesting that academic awards would impair consumer interest in any way."

I'm not quite sure what that last sentence is supposed to mean, and I need to read the actual SCOTUS majority opinion, because I'm not sure what "education-related compensation" actually is. Paying student-athletes, or business deals for student-athletes, aren't what I'd describe as "education related," unless you have a very loose definition of the term. They are in college.

I don't think the SCOTUS case applied specifically to NIL, at least according to the synopsis I just read. It was about "education-related compensation" It mentions NIL as emerging separately and recently from state legislation--specifically bills passed by the states of Florida, Georgia and Alabama. They apparently were the first states to pass legislation enabling student-athletes to benefit from NIL deals. Southern/SEC schools: How funny! What a surprise! Not! And here's what's even funnier: Guess what state was next to try and pass pro-NIL legislation? How about...Ohio! Another not surprise! Apparently the legislation didn't pass in the Ohio legislature, for whatever reason--but the governor (perhaps an OSU alum?) penned an executive order permitting NIL deals for Ohio student-athletes. You don't think Ohio State and its well-connected boosters were going to let the SEC get a leg up on them via NIL, do you?

What astounds me is how SCOTUS justices, or anybody, could conclude that paying or giving money to student-athletes doesn't blur the distinction between college and professional sports. Of course it does. Pros are PAID. If you are paying college students, you've damn well blurred the distinction between college and pro sports--and of course EVERYBODY who follows major-college football and basketball has acknowledged for years that they've become quasi-professional in various ways.

For me, NIL deals for high-school prospects have to be strictly regulated or banned. Otherwise, you've turned recruiting into bribery contests, and that just means that the schools with the wealthiest/dirtiest boosters--the big schools for whom winning means the most (hello SEC plus Ohio State) will pay the most and get the best prospects. Indeed, the NCAA argued in Alston vs. the NCAA that restrictions on compensation were needed to //promote competition.// Its restrictions, it argued, were "pro-competitive." And that is EXACTLY right. Without them, the same 10/12 big-dog schools will buy all the top prospects and win all the games. One could point out that that's been the case anyway for a long time, and it's true: It's just that SEC schools plus OSU, Texas, Oklahoma, one or two others have used their top dollars for competitive advantage in all the other ways--better facilities, bigger recruiting budgets, more perks, etc.

The notion that the NCAA is "power-hungry" is nonsense. First, it's a member-driven organization. Major-college athletics has got crass, commercial, and, now, chaotic precisely because the NCAA has never had enough power to combat the commercialism that has corrupted major-college football.

We'll see how all this evolves.

The case summary you quote is pretty sketchy on the court's rationales and those used by the the lower courts which the SC affirmed. A denser but more complete summary can be found here:


The flipside of this decision is just how lame of an argument that the NCAA used to defend their "amateur" system. In brief, they claimed that NCAA sports is a business based in the distinction between amateurism and professionalism and if that distinction were blurred, consumers would have reduced choice in the marketplace since everybody would be a professional.

Kavanaugh, who is not my fave SC justice, punctured this rationale quickly and easily, stating:

"[n]owhere else in America can businesses get away with agreeing not to pay their workers a fair market rate on the theory that their product is defined by not paying their workers a fair market rate. . . . The NCAA is not above the law."
 
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If I were anointed the Czar of NIL, I would make the following rules:

The NIL fiscal year shall begin on June 1 and end on May 3 of each year.

1. TEAM NIL POOL. Each school (including private schools) shall publicly disclose on the first day of June of every year the lump sum amount of "Team NIL Pool" that it will pay to each sports team during the following year. It shall make equal payments to all team members in an amount equal to the number of scholarships that can be maintained for that sport. For example, Women basketball players would be entitled to monthly Team NIL payments equal to 1/15th of the Team Pool divided by 12 months payable for each month that they are enrolled in school. The amount of such monthly payments to team members shall be publicly disclosed. Funds not expended by the school due to dropouts, transfers etc. shall be carried over to the next year.

2. Recruiting High School prospects: Each team shall disclose to each high recruit contacted after June of her Junior year regarding Team NIL Pool fund shares that she would receive during her freshman year based upon the current year's publicly disclosed Team NIL Pool.

3. Recruiting Transfers: Each team shall disclose to each NCAA player who enters the Transfer Portal and contacts the school of the amount of TEAM NIL Pool money that the player would be entitled to receive for the remainder of the fiscal year (until June 1) if the player enrolls into the school before June 1.

4. INDIVIDUAL NIL FROM ENDORSEMENTS, SOCIAL MEDIA ETC. Individual NIL is all money that is paid to a player from third parties who are not boosters of a school for the USE of their name, image or likeness. Each school may employ a NIL Advisor to assist each player in arranging NIL opportunities for players who are enrolled in the school. The NIL adviser shall not have contact with any recruiting or transfer prospect. Nothing shall prevent a coach other than the NIL Advisor from discussing individual NIL opportunities obtained by past and current players but no coach shall i any way promise any individual NIL opportunities to any prospect.
The problem with #1 is the school as of today doesn't manage the NIL funds.
 
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This debate hinges on emotional ties to how it used to be rather than the realities of recruiting .

NIL deals and the transfer portal have completely changed the game.

A good to great player is a good to great player whether they are recruited out of high school or come through the portal. In many cases, the transfer has a leg up because of having experience at college competition.

One model is not more inherently sustainable than the other. The choice is not between "we have blue chip recruits coming through the pipeline on a regular and planned basis versus let us pray that a transfer likes us.

HS recruiting is hyper competitive and getting more so with NILs.

Conversely, the idea that Harper keeps saving her job year after year through "luck" or "miracles" via the transfer portal actually suggest that indeed, it is not luck or miracles. Rather, she and the staff are actually quite good at playing the transfer portal game.

The evidence also shows that she and her staff have not been as proficient with recruits coming out of HS and her success in one domain might have something to do with her struggles in the other.

Maybe her approach just works better with more mature players who don't have stars in their eyes from pie in the sky recruiting pitches

However, as long Coach Harper can keep putting quality players on the floor, it does not matter how they get here.
Great post! You hit on something I have wondered about too. Does KJH connect better with players who are a little more mature? Wouldn’t surprise me as she seems to be a no drama type as opposed to a couple of other SEC coaches who really like the personal limelight.
 
Great post! You hit on something I have wondered about too. Does KJH connect better with players who are a little more mature? Wouldn’t surprise me as she seems to be a no drama type as opposed to a couple of other SEC coaches who really like the personal limelight.
Could be Lucy ,but Coach Harper is not near as good with the portal as is that Coach down there in Baton Rouge.
 
Could be Lucy ,but Coach Harper is not near as good with the portal as is that Coach down there in Baton Rouge.
I’d have a hard time saying anyone has been better than KJH in the portal race. Although that whole discussion could take up another week as we wait for the season to start.
Maybe we should all chip in and get Kellie her very own Bedazzler kit off of QVC! 😂😳😂
 
Does UT have an NIL Collective? If so, it manages NIL funds. It's just that nobody knows how they manage it. It's not transparent.
I think all the girls are getting big NIL money at Tennessee. What Tennessee does not do which I heard a few others are doing is make a huge offer to a recruit. The pitch is you can do very well with NIL at Tennessee, but they aren't guaranteed any certain amount. The only athletes that seem to be getting guaranteed deals at Tennessee are football players.
 
I think all the girls are getting big NIL money at Tennessee. What Tennessee does not do which I heard a few others are doing is make a huge offer to a recruit. The pitch is you can do very well with NIL at Tennessee, but they aren't guaranteed any certain amount. The only athletes that seem to be getting guaranteed deals at Tennessee are football players.
I can tell you first hand we offer recruits. The question is does an unproven hs recruit deserve what rickea or tamari earn? If you do well here, you earn pretty good NIL money. My theoretical question to all is fo you think a hs recruit ranked in the 40s should earn as much as rickea jackson who is a potential all american?

I understand a top 10 recruit wanting a big package but now a large contingency is asking for it regardless of ranking.
 
Does UT have an NIL Collective? If so, it manages NIL funds. It's just that nobody knows how they manage it. It's not transparent.
Yes we have Vol Club for men and Boost Her Club for women and both are actually pretty transparent. They've both released info on how much of the money they bringing goes to athletes.
 
I can tell you first hand we offer recruits. The question is does an unproven hs recruit deserve what rickea or tamari earn? If you do well here, you earn pretty good NIL money. My theoretical question to all is fo you think a hs recruit ranked in the 40s should earn as much as rickea jackson who is a potential all american?

I understand a top 10 recruit wanting a big package but now a large contingency is asking for it regardless of ranking.
If a program like Tennessee is recruiting a HS player, that player has the right to ask for whatever they want. Don’t leave money on the table when the market is there.
 
I can tell you first hand we offer recruits. The question is does an unproven hs recruit deserve what rickea or tamari earn? If you do well here, you earn pretty good NIL money. My theoretical question to all is fo you think a hs recruit ranked in the 40s should earn as much as rickea jackson who is a potential all american?

I understand a top 10 recruit wanting a big package but now a large contingency is asking for it regardless of ranking.

Of course they're asking for it. There is a sub-culture of wanting things for free in America. That is why NIL is nonsense---and most especially, offering deals to prospects is corrupt, crass and should be banned. These are kids who, for starters, apparently have little respect for the idea of going to college and getting an education. The Ivies have had it right all along---treating athletics as what is is, an extra-curricular activity, one of many. They keep it in perspective.
 
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I can tell you first hand we offer recruits. The question is does an unproven hs recruit deserve what rickea or tamari earn? If you do well here, you earn pretty good NIL money. My theoretical question to all is fo you think a hs recruit ranked in the 40s should earn as much as rickea jackson who is a potential all american?

I understand a top 10 recruit wanting a big package but now a large contingency is asking for it regardless of ranking.
I don't think we should offer anything to anyone not in the top ten just show them the potential. I think we'll have to get in a bidding war for the top ten players just how the game has evolved. I say this thinking it will never happen as long as Kellie Harper is coach.
 
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Of course they're asking for it. There is a sub-culture of wanting things for free in America. That is why NIL is nonsense---and most especially, offering deals to prospects is corrupt, crass and should be banned. These are kids who, for starters, apparently have little respect for the idea of going to college and getting an education. The Ivies have had it right all along---treating athletics as what is is, an extra-curricular activity, one of many. They keep it in perspective.
as proven by the low GPA's?

Kellie Harper's squad posted a 3.397 GPA that stands as the highest rated of any Southeastern Conference women's hoops program for the 2021-22 school year.

or, maybe

The recently completed Fall 2022 semester was a record-breaking term for Tennessee Athletics, as the student-athlete population posted a cumulative 3.32 grade-point average—the highest ever recorded. The previous high—excluding terms with COVID grade-mode flexibility—was 3.27 in Spring 2022.

By marking the 20th consecutive semester in which the Vols and Lady Vols combined to post a GPA of 3.0 or higher, Tennessee Athletics has now maintained that level of academic achievement for a full 10 years.

but what about this past year:

Academically, the Spring 2023 semester saw Tennessee’s more than 550 student-athletes achieve a cumulative grade-point average of 3.38—its highest ever recorded. For the first time ever, all 16 sport programs earned a team GPA of at least a 3.0. This spring also marked the 21st consecutive semester in which the Vols and Lady Vols combined to post a GPA of 3.0 or higher

________

Do your homework,,,they do!
 
Of course they're asking for it. There is a sub-culture of wanting things for free in America. That is why NIL is nonsense---and most especially, offering deals to prospects is corrupt, crass and should be banned. These are kids who, for starters, apparently have little respect for the idea of going to college and getting an education. The Ivies have had it right all along---treating athletics as what is is, an extra-curricular activity, one of many. They keep it in perspective.
Sir you must be thinking of a program other than the Lady Vols or pur student-athletes ad a whole. I suggest you reach out to our AD and Chancellor and learn how serious we take academics here.
 
as proven by the low GPA's?

Kellie Harper's squad posted a 3.397 GPA that stands as the highest rated of any Southeastern Conference women's hoops program for the 2021-22 school year.

or, maybe

The recently completed Fall 2022 semester was a record-breaking term for Tennessee Athletics, as the student-athlete population posted a cumulative 3.32 grade-point average—the highest ever recorded. The previous high—excluding terms with COVID grade-mode flexibility—was 3.27 in Spring 2022.

By marking the 20th consecutive semester in which the Vols and Lady Vols combined to post a GPA of 3.0 or higher, Tennessee Athletics has now maintained that level of academic achievement for a full 10 years.

but what about this past year:

Academically, the Spring 2023 semester saw Tennessee’s more than 550 student-athletes achieve a cumulative grade-point average of 3.38—its highest ever recorded. For the first time ever, all 16 sport programs earned a team GPA of at least a 3.0. This spring also marked the 21st consecutive semester in which the Vols and Lady Vols combined to post a GPA of 3.0 or higher

________

Do your homework,,,they do!
Outrageous idea that someone actually checks the facts before spouting off about a topic 😃. Good info here.
 
Yes we have Vol Club for men and Boost Her Club for women and both are actually pretty transparent. They've both released info on how much of the money they bringing goes to athletes.
So, you see, the school DOES manage the collective NIL money (Part one of my "plan").

Not being a smartass. Really seeking information. Is Boost Her Club for wbb or for all women's sports. If for basketball, do they disclose whether all players receive an equal amount or are some players paid more than others? The Gamecocks pay a flat rate to all players. 25,000 per year whether you were the #1 prospect or the number 41. Whether you are a true freshman or an all conference transfer. Flat rate, Totally transparent. And I think every school should release that information on what their collective pays. I wanna' know what Texas pays from its NIL collective!

The Individual NIL is where it gets shady, but really only the players' business how much she makes in endorsements, social media, etc. I do believe a team advisor should be able to help enrolled players maximize their PERSONAL earnings. (It's the American way and the reason the S.Ct. smacked the NCAA around) BUT, I don't believe the advisors should be permitted to participate in recruiting or talk to prospects about Individual NIL opportunity until the player enrolls in the school. Whether we are talking hs recruiting or portal.

Just my opinion of course.
 
So, you see, the school DOES manage the collective NIL money (Part one of my "plan").

Not being a smartass. Really seeking information. Is Boost Her Club for wbb or for all women's sports. If for basketball, do they disclose whether all players receive an equal amount or are some players paid more than others? The Gamecocks pay a flat rate to all players. 25,000 per year whether you were the #1 prospect or the number 41. Whether you are a true freshman or an all conference transfer. Flat rate, Totally transparent. And I think every school should release that information on what their collective pays. I wanna' know what Texas pays from its NIL collective!

The Individual NIL is where it gets shady, but really only the players' business how much she makes in endorsements, social media, etc. I do believe a team advisor should be able to help enrolled players maximize their PERSONAL earnings. (It's the American way and the reason the S.Ct. smacked the NCAA around) BUT, I don't believe the advisors should be permitted to participate in recruiting or talk to prospects about Individual NIL opportunity until the player enrolls in the school. Whether we are talking hs recruiting or portal.

Just my opinion of course.
As an FYI, sc says they pay that. And just follow boost her club on any social media and you will find your answers. They sponsor 40 athletes across all sports and no not everyone earns the same as different sports and athletes have different values nd some may he willing to do more work for the money.

The question to me is should wbb move under Vol Club perhaps to get bigger dollars? The mission of boost her club is great but unfortunately most fans join and pour money into our male athletes over females which saddens me. I get it football is king. Wbb should be a major draw for anyone to support esp at UT
 
So, you see, the school DOES manage the collective NIL money (Part one of my "plan").

Not being a smartass. Really seeking information. Is Boost Her Club for wbb or for all women's sports. If for basketball, do they disclose whether all players receive an equal amount or are some players paid more than others? The Gamecocks pay a flat rate to all players. 25,000 per year whether you were the #1 prospect or the number 41. Whether you are a true freshman or an all conference transfer. Flat rate, Totally transparent. And I think every school should release that information on what their collective pays. I wanna' know what Texas pays from its NIL collective!

The Individual NIL is where it gets shady, but really only the players' business how much she makes in endorsements, social media, etc. I do believe a team advisor should be able to help enrolled players maximize their PERSONAL earnings. (It's the American way and the reason the S.Ct. smacked the NCAA around) BUT, I don't believe the advisors should be permitted to participate in recruiting or talk to prospects about Individual NIL opportunity until the player enrolls in the school. Whether we are talking hs recruiting or portal.

Just my opinion of course.
FYI the new regulation the ncaa is trying to pass will require disclosure of deals.
 
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I can tell you first hand we offer recruits. The question is does an unproven hs recruit deserve what rickea or tamari earn? If you do well here, you earn pretty good NIL money. My theoretical question to all is fo you think a hs recruit ranked in the 40s should earn as much as rickea jackson who is a potential all american?

I understand a top 10 recruit wanting a big package but now a large contingency is asking for it regardless of ranking.
I believe most should have to earn good money. Understand Elite Recruit will ask for much more but bringing in high-school kid making big dollar doesn't help current roster and team building. My 2 cents
 
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As an FYI, sc says they pay that. And just follow boost her club on any social media and you will find your answers. They sponsor 40 athletes across all sports and no not everyone earns the same as different sports and athletes have different values nd some may he willing to do more work for the money.

The question to me is should wbb move under Vol Club perhaps to get bigger dollars? The mission of boost her club is great but unfortunately most fans join and pour money into our male athletes over females which saddens me. I get it football is king. Wbb should be a major draw for anyone to support esp at UT

I was supporting Vol Club for about a year before I realized none of it was going to women's athletics. I wish it was all centralized but with an ability to maybe earmark up to 50% to a specific program.
It would be so much easier to me if I could specify that 50% goes to WBB recruiting and the other 50% goes "where needed most".
 
I was supporting Vol Club for about a year before I realized none of it was going to women's athletics. I wish it was all centralized but with an ability to maybe earmark up to 50% to a specific program.
It would be so much easier to me if I could specify that 50% goes to WBB recruiting and the other 50% goes "where needed most".
I agree. I think that was the concept at first but for some reason it didn't happen. I bet if it was done that way, I think you'd see more money for the women but that's just a hunch. With BHC I learned you can earmark the sport but have to email to designate it. I do both personally with much more going to our women athletes.
 


Let’s get back to some actual 2024 recruiting news.


Can someone remind me of the rules for how many official visits a player can take?

I looked through Mikayla’s Instagram and she’s had visits at 3 schools from her top 7. Those schools were Rutgers, Indiana, and Vanderbilt. Looks like we’re her 4th visit. Would love to see her become a LV4L!
 
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