2024 WNBA Discussion Thread

[NashVol11]

She can also just get stronger, regardless of muscle mass. KD is still skinny but has gotten significantly stronger in the NBA. Hell, Kelsey Plum has gotten significantly stronger

 

[brittannica]

I think that everyone would agree that Caitlin Clark needs to get stronger, especially considering Brittannica's (whom I trust absolutely) claim that this has happened at least ten times (I'm obviously confessing here that I haven't watched), and I'm sure it (the ripping) likely happens, and ten, or more is probably a fair estimate. However, the above video would be the worse example of having the ball ripped out of her (or anyone's) hands that I have ever seen. Under those particular circumstances - and alluding to the fact that Clark is indeed, comparatively weak (an apparent understatement), in this particular case, after Thomas gained possession, Lebron James could not have secured the ball. Clark got a single hand on the ball with little hope of gaining possession, especially after colliding with Thomas' shoulder. Thomas, after the collision, very skillfully - and vehemently - gathered and secured the ball by turning as Clark, having no chance of success, reached in. Just not a good example of "ripping." This is not intended to be contentious (again, I haven't watched the WNBA this season, so no dog in the hunt), but IMO a terrible example.

...and we have, what, FIVE MORE MONTHS until tipoff?
Cheers.

Oh dear, more evidence for my partner that I’m a poor communicator I can’t say for sure that has happened ten times but rather I watched that one instance ten times because I couldn’t believe it!

 

[glv98]

I think that everyone would agree that Caitlin Clark needs to get stronger, especially considering Brittannica's (whom I trust absolutely) claim that this has happened at least ten times (I'm obviously confessing here that I haven't watched), and I'm sure it (the ripping) likely happens, and ten, or more is probably a fair estimate. However, the above video would be the worse example of having the ball ripped out of her (or anyone's) hands that I have ever seen. Under those particular circumstances - and alluding to the fact that Clark is indeed, comparatively weak (an apparent understatement), in this particular case, after Thomas gained possession, Lebron James could not have secured the ball. Clark got a single hand on the ball with little hope of gaining possession, especially after colliding with Thomas' shoulder. Thomas, after the collision, very skillfully - and vehemently - gathered and secured the ball by turning as Clark, having no chance of success, reached in. Just not a good example of "ripping." This is not intended to be contentious (again, I haven't watched the WNBA this season, so no dog in the hunt), but IMO a terrible example.

...and we have, what, FIVE MORE MONTHS until tipoff?
Cheers.

It was more the spinning around than the ripping away for me. Of course that's iffy too bc that's part of CC's acting routine. She flails, spins, lolls head, etc on the regular when she thinks she might get a foul called. But in this case, the exaggerated spining made her look weak as a kitten.

I confess, I just don't get it with CC. Even if she was hitting logo 3s on the regular instead of on rare occassions, that's just not very entertaining basketball to me. And very rarely is it winning basketball. Obviously many others are entertained by it, but I still wonder how long that luster can last. If this is what 'growing the game' is built on, the house of cards looks pretty shaky to me

 

[glv98]

So many reasons to be proud of LVFL Dreya. It all comes down to this: money and promotion over integrity. Also, if you know (and anyone could plainly see now) that the CC hype was built on a false premise of her dominance, it doesn't seem like an actual good foundation for the league to build itself on. It was absolutely going to collapse.

The mansplaining is sickening. How do these guys get away with it? If I came close to that level with any of the women in my life I am highly unlikely to survive the event.

 

[glv98]

Only fair to share CC's answer, which as always was classy and appropriate.

Apparently she was a little miffed, no surprise, and texted her coach that "they" had unleashed the beast in her with this decision. Unfortunately for her, the coach is not the sharpest knife in the drawer and told the world about this message. Then CC rolled out the "beast" with one of the worst games of her young career in which she sucked, quit, and got benched.

Time away is 100% the best thing for CC and all of us. Most of this is not her fault at all.

 

[DarkPhoenix]

I don’t agree with the player mentioned but I agree with the message, whoever The media and sports networks promote the people will watch because of it. Give more players nonstop promo and watch the numbers rise.

 

[Mafiaboss]

Hard to imagine anyone fumbling the bag as hard as Lin Dunn and Indy have with the whole CC phenom. So much for the notion that all CC and the Fever needed was rest. Not only were they worse than ever, they had zero Fs to give from the tip off. Sides benched 4 of the 5 starters, including CC, for the entire second half and called them out after the game for lack of effort. It's true, only Boston played hard and she looked miserable doing it. Fans in the Suns home arena chanted "We want Caitlin" throughout the second half but she never put her back in. Hard to see Sides lasting the whole season.

The Sun are very good, but the Fever just failed to show. It's one thing to be undermanned, like the Sparks are. But another to just NGAF like the Fever. CC had one of her worst games, didn't provide much support for the notion she should be on the Olympic team. I feel bad for folks who fell for the silly CC myths months ago and bought over priced tickets and actually drive to watch this mess. They are easily the worst, least entertaining team in the league. Even the hapless Mystics could beat them at this point.
It was this kind of night for CC:

It really bothers me that the entire world has set CC up for failure. If her only sin is flopping, well, big deal.

 

[Mafiaboss]

It was more the spinning around than the ripping away for me. Of course that's iffy too bc that's part of CC's acting routine. She flails, spins, lolls head, etc on the regular when she thinks she might get a foul called. But in this case, the exaggerated spining made her look weak as a kitten.

I confess, I just don't get it with CC. Even if she was hitting logo 3s on the regular instead of on rare occassions, that's just not very entertaining basketball to me. And very rarely is it winning basketball. Obviously many others are entertained by it, but I still wonder how long that luster can last. If this is what 'growing the game' is built on, the house of cards looks pretty shaky to me

I don’t think that’s her only game. Fever is a mess because of coaching and management…as usual. I’ve stopped watching WNBA because the physicality of the game diminishes the sport. If a player has to beef up to play what should be considered a non-contact sport, something is wrong. Trash talk has always happened. But calling hand-check fouls, which was a notorious point of emphasis for a while, and not calling flat out abusive behavior a foul… current WNBA is not what women should be about.

 

[Voltopia]

It really bothers me that the entire world has set CC up for failure. If her only sin is flopping, well, big deal.

It doesn't matter to the people who run down Clark - they just want to be right about her. Even if it costs them their increased viewership and casual fan interest.

 

[Mafiaboss]

It doesn't matter to the people who run down Clark - they just want to be right about her. Even if it costs them their increased viewership and casual fan interest.

Yeah. It’s a damn shame.

 

[VolBall09]

So many reasons to be proud of LVFL Dreya. It all comes down to this: money and promotion over integrity. Also, if you know (and anyone could plainly see now) that the CC hype was built on a false premise of her dominance, it doesn't seem like an actual good foundation for the league to build itself on. It was absolutely going to collapse.

The mansplaining is sickening. How do these guys get away with it? If I came close to that level with any of the women in my life I am highly unlikely to survive the event.

L take. He’s right and you sound dumb.

Clark is the most dominant player in college history and will go down as one of the best all time.

Unfortunately she’s being steamrolled by a league of social justice warriors who can’t get out of their own way.

 

[DarkPhoenix]

 

[chuckiepoo]

 

[glv98]

It doesn't matter to the people who run down Clark - they just want to be right about her. Even if it costs them their increased viewership and casual fan interest.

I've always said I feel sorry for CC and think she was always set up for failure bc of money grubbers and gullible fans who fell for the bull. I just don't agree that she's that great or that entertaining a player to build the world around. And I absolutely hate that once again, cultural crap has gotten pinned to it all.

But I'll die on the hill that she's not yet good enough to be on the Olympic team and the W doesn't need to sell out to put her there. The Olympics were fine before CC and will be fine after.

 

[Voltopia]

I've always said I feel sorry for CC and think she was always set up for failure bc of money grubbers and gullible fans who fell for the bull. I just don't agree that she's that great or that entertaining a player to build the world around. And I absolutely hate that once again, cultural crap has gotten pinned to it all.

But I'll die on the hill that she's not yet good enough to be on the Olympic team and the W doesn't need to sell out to put her there. The Olympics were fine before CC and will be fine after.

What makes them gullible? People talked about her games - on the regular Sports subreddit, on the NBA subreddit, on message boards having nothing to do with the WNBA. What, did they chain them to the computers and make them talk about her? She even has an active thread in the "Around the NCAA" forum here - tell me the last time they discussed a women's basketball player in that forum.

People enjoyed watching her play. They talked about her. Not just in the usual circles; she was discussed across sports. You may not find her entertaining, and you may think her a phony, but there were many, many people who bought in to her play and her shooting skills. She crossed boundaries left and right in that regard. I'm sure there's plenty of excuses one can trot out as to why she's not worthy of any of this attention. But the fact is, people invested, and Clark DID impact college basketball. Viewership of her games, Iowa ticket sales both at home and on the road, even the very fact Iowa was relevant in women's college basketball for a few years. People bought in. How dare they. How dare they be so guillible. They're all clearly fools for caring about her.

Hell, I don't -- I don't even care. I'm not a pro fan. I still think she travels on some of her threes, and she pushes off with the best of them, and let's not even start on the defensive work, but I also think it's downright silly for people to be so giddy over seeing her "fail" - if a handful of games in a rookie season even constitutes failure. All she did was play her game and play it so well that she became marketable to the masses. Heh, and I bet all those guillible masses are probably hoping she turns it around and gets back to being an amazing player. Again, how foolish of them.

 

[madtownvol]

I think that everyone would agree that Caitlin Clark needs to get stronger, especially considering Brittannica's (whom I trust absolutely) claim that this has happened at least ten times (I'm obviously confessing here that I haven't watched), and I'm sure it (the ripping) likely happens, and ten, or more is probably a fair estimate. However, the above video would be the worse example of having the ball ripped out of her (or anyone's) hands that I have ever seen. Under those particular circumstances - and alluding to the fact that Clark is indeed, comparatively weak (an apparent understatement), in this particular case, after Thomas gained possession, Lebron James could not have secured the ball. Clark got a single hand on the ball with little hope of gaining possession, especially after colliding with Thomas' shoulder. Thomas, after the collision, very skillfully - and vehemently - gathered and secured the ball by turning as Clark, having no chance of success, reached in. Just not a good example of "ripping." This is not intended to be contentious (again, I haven't watched the WNBA this season, so no dog in the hunt), but IMO a terrible example.

...and we have, what, FIVE MORE MONTHS until tipoff?
Cheers.

I just watched that clip and you are 100% correct. Of course, Clark is going to lose any strength match-up against Thomas (as would 90% or more of all WNBA players) but Thomas had the advantageous position and the leverage in that specific play. It was like a judo move where Thomas used Clark's own momentum against her.

 

[madtownvol]

Not only ripped out, but spun around like a rag doll. Of course AT bullies everyone, but that was borderline criminal.

CC can probably get stronger, but not sure her body type is going to allow much more muscle mass. It's always going to be a problem for her.

She does not have to become "she-Hulk". I think, in the case, the comparisons to Steph Curry, are decent. Steph got bullied a lot in his first 2 or 3 seasons. He did not turn into Zion Williamson but he got stronger, particularly in his lower body and core so that he could handle contact better. 10 pounds of muscle would make a world of difference for CC but, given her body type, that transformation will probably take a few seasons.

 

[Volfaninfl2]

I’ve watched AT rip the ball out of CC’s hands at least ten times now. CC needs to hit the weight room ASAP.

True, but looking at that particular video, doesn’t look like CC ever had the ball in both hands, she was still reaching with one hand.

 

[brockytop]

Guess it’s fair to say NBC had no pull in getting Clark on the Olympic roster because her absence is probably going to cost them a significant viewership hit for USA WBB games.

It’s also fascinating watching a sports league (including many players) have so much resentment toward its cash cow. Only thing I can compare it to is if the NBA had acted in such a fashion when Magic & Bird came on the scene and took the sport to another level.

 

[VolBall09]

Guess it’s fair to say NBC had no pull in getting Clark on the Olympic roster because her absence is probably going to cost them a significant viewership hit for USA WBB games.

It’s also fascinating watching a sports league (including many players) have so much resentment toward its cash cow. Only thing I can compare it to is if the NBA had acted in such a fashion when Magic & Bird came on the scene and took the sport to another level.

Yep, but instead of building them up these other women are determined to tear her down. It’s pretty sad to watch.

Really think the WNBA commissioner needs to get involved and they need to change their fines. They’re all half broke so start hitting them where it hurts. I’d slap Carrington with a $5,000 fine just for the stupid ish she pulled last night.

I’ve been shocked at the low class, unintelligent, aggressive and rude press conferences as well. It’s just BS.

If most people acted like that at work they would be fired. Copper was asked a basic question about how the bench could have contributed better in their game the other day. She lost her mind like she’d been asked to kill her first born child. The reporter was so confused.

And she’s on team USA, sorry, I don’t want that trash representing our country. Class doesn’t know what color you are, nor does it care.

 

[NashVol11]

They’re all half broke so start hitting them where it hurts. I’d slap Carrington with a $5,000 fine just for the stupid ish she pulled last night.

You want fines for mocking people? That would be extremely weak IMO

 

[madtownvol]

So many reasons to be proud of LVFL Dreya. It all comes down to this: money and promotion over integrity. Also, if you know (and anyone could plainly see now) that the CC hype was built on a false premise of her dominance, it doesn't seem like an actual good foundation for the league to build itself on. It was absolutely going to collapse.

The mansplaining is sickening. How do these guys get away with it? If I came close to that level with any of the women in my life I am highly unlikely to survive the event.

"Stephen A.'s" hyperbolic schtick is so stale. Do people really enjoy hearing someone scream repetitive comments?

The hypocrisy here is almost comical. Draya is a rising star on ESPN, the same network that pays his salary and had Stephen A sweating bullets on their last round of cost-cutting layoffs.

As an announcer. he is an expendable commodity. A lot of people can rant on TV about athletes (who are the actual draws). If I had been the ESPN decision makers, I would have kept Jalen Rose and dropped this bombastic dude.

The marketing aspects of putting CC on the Olympic team are not that clear cut. There would be a lot of backlash about her not having earned it and she would only be playing in garbage time anyway.

NBC has Simone Biles, Lebron and Steph in men's basketball, they will be okay

 

[VolBall09]

You want fines for mocking people? That would be extremely weak IMO

I do, you can’t talk to an official like that mainly. Their heads are way too big for a bunch of nobodies nobody was watching.

I know who they are because I’ve been a WBB fan. Fact remains the new viewers don’t know them, don’t care and that behavior isn’t going to want to make them stick around.

I’d start fining people left and right. They fine people for not wearing socks in the NBA for Christ sake.

 

[glv98]

What makes them gullible? People talked about her games - on the regular Sports subreddit, on the NBA subreddit, on message boards having nothing to do with the WNBA. What, did they chain them to the computers and make them talk about her? She even has an active thread in the "Around the NCAA" forum here - tell me the last time they discussed a women's basketball player in that forum.

People enjoyed watching her play. They talked about her. Not just in the usual circles; she was discussed across sports. You may not find her entertaining, and you may think her a phony, but there were many, many people who bought in to her play and her shooting skills. She crossed boundaries left and right in that regard. I'm sure there's plenty of excuses one can trot out as to why she's not worthy of any of this attention. But the fact is, people invested, and Clark DID impact college basketball. Viewership of her games, Iowa ticket sales both at home and on the road, even the very fact Iowa was relevant in women's college basketball for a few years. People bought in. How dare they. How dare they be so guillible. They're all clearly fools for caring about her.

Hell, I don't -- I don't even care. I'm not a pro fan. I still think she travels on some of her threes, and she pushes off with the best of them, and let's not even start on the defensive work, but I also think it's downright silly for people to be so giddy over seeing her "fail" - if a handful of games in a rookie season even constitutes failure. All she did was play her game and play it so well that she became marketable to the masses. Heh, and I bet all those guillible masses are probably hoping she turns it around and gets back to being an amazing player. Again, how foolish of them.

Gullible I'm talking about are people who bought all these tickets far in advance and travelled to games because they thought what they saw in college was going to be what they get in WNBA games. Last night there were young girls crying and Dads complaining about CC's limited playing time. Saying that's not what they spent their money for. There's a sense of expectation and entitlement above and beyond the game that was set up by silly preseason and draft hype. It was never going to happen and was unfair to CC to pretend it was.

Lots of talk about 'narratives' lately, but IMO the original harmful narrative was that CC was going to come in and dominate and own the league. That's what people paid to see, not the reality of inefficient shooting, turnovers and a terrible team that quits. Changing rules or standards or making marketing oriented decisions aimed at dragging that illusion along aren't going to help in the end.

Clark is the most dominant player in college history

Major agree to disagree. Just off the top of my head both Candace and Chamique were far more "dominate" players and both have multiple nattys to show for it. CC is the best long range shooter of all time, but that doesn't make her dominate in my book.

 

[DarkPhoenix]

Major agree to disagree. Just off the top of my head both Candace and Chamique were far more "dominate" players and both have multiple nattys to show for it. CC is the best long range shooter of all time, but that doesn't make her dominate in my book.

I agree with you 100%