3* millionaire?

[InVOLuntary]

The offer list is a much superior indicator of potential/talent. Look at the players offer list, that tells you all you need to know.

 

[crusse10]

Without looking it up, I'm just guessing that "gimmicky" Nebraska offense sent several players to the NFL.

They had 12 offensive players drafted in the 90s. Of them, 4 were drafted in the first 3 rounds. 10 of those 12 played 5 years or fewer in the NFL.

 

[BaldBiker]

North 6.0 4*
Swafford 5.4 2*
Josh Dobbs 5.7 3*
Dylan Wiesman 5.6 3*
AJ Branisel 5.6 3*

All of these guys did well for freshman last year. If stars matter so much, then why did Vandy beat UT, UGA and UF last year?

You forgot about 3* Cam Sutton. He really stunk up the field last year though so I can see why you left him off the list.

 

[LebanonVolunteer]

The offer list is a much superior indicator of potential/talent. Look at the players offer list, that tells you all you need to know.

IMO not any more. Look at UT as an example. They have about 300 offers out to 2015 recruits. I'd guess that about 85% of them are "offers" meaning absolutely nothing. It's tough to use an offer list to establish a recruit is a top level option if a lot of his "offers" would not take him.

 

[ksgovols]

Wow I did not expect to be called a troll or douche for wanting the best players to win. You guys are harsh and almost like a cult the way you gang up on people. These guys NEED bumps in ratings or it is a mental barrier for me and many others. Just something else I have to worry about during off season.

Don't worry. Be happy. Get a life.

How long have you been following recruiting? Al Wilson was not as highly rated as Daniel Brooks. Not even close. Chasing star ratings is dangerous at best. I would guess UT has had as many 5 * busts as the ones that worked out. Give me a bunch of 4*'s and some hungry 3 *'s any day with a punter, a kicker and a long snapper that aren't going to get more than a 3 anyway.

You don't get a damn thing for having the #1 recruiting class.

 

[Brillovol]

Yeah, I think it is a welcome change. I think it is the right direction, and we need a coach like him to get get us back on track to win some games. But in all honesty, I have seen nothing so far that convinces me that he is some god of a talent evaluator like some think. Also, I haven't seen anything that makes me think he is going to be a perennial contender for titles. Now let me say this, IM NOT SAYING THAT HE WONT COMPETE FOR TITLES OR THAT HE ISNT A GREAT TALENT EVALUATOR, I'm just saying I haven't seen the proof yet. Did you think about my trading classes with bama question? Would you do it?

First off, I have no clue who Bama has committed outside of a couple players, so there's no way I would trade our class for theirs. We signed 2 5*'s last year after yet another losing season, a multitude of 4*'s (so much so that we can field an entire defense of 4*'s out of this past class alone), and a few 3*'s to round out a consensus top 5 class. And don't give any BS about signing over 30, because only the top 20 count on most sites anyway.

If that's not enough for you, let's consider the players we found and got on board whose recruitment and ratings blew up soon thereafter. Pearson, Helm, and Jakob Johnson, all come to mind as players who blew up after they committed to us. That's not even counting other players like Wharton, Gaulden, Bryant, etc. who saw their stock rise continually as time went on. Also consider 3* Coleman Thomas who is going to be a true freshman starter on an SEC O-line this year. I don't care what you say about depth, he was criminally underrated. Same for Moseley, but you get the point.

This staff has proven to me in the past year and a half to have a nose for talent. If the recruiting services haven't borne that out, then the current depth chart sure has.

 

[crusse10]

Don't worry. Be happy. Get a life.

How long have you been following recruiting? Al Wilson was not as highly rated as Daniel Brooks. Not even close. Chasing star ratings is dangerous at best. I would guess UT has had as many 5 * busts as the ones that worked out. Give me a bunch of 4*'s and some hungry 3 *'s any day with a punter, a kicker and a long snapper that aren't going to get more than a 3 anyway.

You don't get a damn thing for having the #1 recruiting class.

you get talent that brings expectation and energy, which excites the fan base and raises season ticket sales, which drives attendance up and fills Neyland stadium, which gives the home team a better advantage while eliminating some tickets sold to fans of opponents

 

[Wickman]

Yeah, I think it is a welcome change. I think it is the right direction, and we need a coach like him to get get us back on track to win some games. But in all honesty, I have seen nothing so far that convinces me that he is some god of a talent evaluator like some think. Also, I haven't seen anything that makes me think he is going to be a perennial contender for titles. Now let me say this, IM NOT SAYING THAT HE WONT COMPETE FOR TITLES OR THAT HE ISNT A GREAT TALENT EVALUATOR, I'm just saying I haven't seen the proof yet. Did you think about my trading classes with bama question? Would you do it?

I would want to trade some players, no doubt. It's more of a difficult question because some of their players are a better fit for a 3-4. Do I think currently they have a better class? To an extent. I wouldn't trade Preston, Kamara, Jennings, Dormady, Butcher, Jones, or Stewart. And think about it, everyone I named off had a Bama offer...

Edit: Minus Stewart

 

[PassedOutAwake]

You forgot about 3* Cam Sutton. He really stunk up the field last year though so I can see why you left him off the list.

Sutton was a Dooley recruit. I was just listing Butch's guys.

 

[Nationdom]

Says the guy who chose to use a 2-star recruit as his avi. C'mon man, are you serious! :loco:

Ryan Karl turned out to be a 4-year contributor and started his last two years for us. What's your point?

Ryan and I are close

 

[Big151Orange]

They had 12 offensive players drafted in the 90s. Of them, 4 were drafted in the first 3 rounds. 10 of those 12 played 5 years or fewer in the NFL.

And all the other players on those Nebraska teams that did not make it to the league at all, that was Osborn deliberately attempting to fail to prepare them for life after college because he employed a gimmicky offense that did not prepare them for the league?

I'm thinking EVERY single player that signed to play for Nebraska during that time knew exactly what type of offense they were running BEFORE they signed their LOI. If their lifelong goal was to make it to the NFL and they thought playing for Nebraska would hinder that goal, the player and his family bear the responsibility for that decision.

Additionally, I don't ever recall a college coach being fired for not putting enough players into the league. Success for any college coach is judged by the number of wins, and sometimes who they are against. If you think coaches are more concerned about the number of players they put into the league than their won-loss record, you are the one fooling yourself.

 

[callmecrockett]

North 6.0 4*
Swafford 5.4 2*
Josh Dobbs 5.7 3*
Dylan Wiesman 5.6 3*
AJ Branisel 5.6 3*

All of these guys did well for freshman last year. If stars matter so much, then why did Vandy beat UT, UGA and UF last year?

Woody Quinn 2*
Lemond Johnson 3*
Jaylen Miller 3*
Kendall Vickers 3*
Jabo Lee 3*

North was a 4* so let's not count him. The OL guys were backups. And Dobbs Has less than a consensus with tennessee fans as being awesome. Who exactly were you blown away by, who was the diamond in the rough here that Butch found that were better than some 5* guy that we couldn't get?

 

[Nationdom]

How many of you were saying this before his second season, though?

I'm sure that there were some, but I'd put a lot of money on most taking the same type of recruiting found at the end of his tenure and spinning it in a positive light because it's "his job".

Don't call me out, though, as I don't feel this way. I can simply see how someone would be worried because they saw garbage recruiting for years that went under the guise of "they're high character system guys"

My guess is that he's saying that Butch CAN get those guys, so why is he taking what appears to be what Dooley would have taken

Bingo it seemed like there are others highly ranked that have us very high on their list

 

[Nationdom]

EXACTLY.

This is the exact reason that I'm thinking he's saying, "why are we taking all these 3*s when we've seen that Butch CAN recruit so much better?" He's probably wondering why we're reverting to taking guys that Dooley would have taken instead of continuing the blazing pace he started with last year

I'm just trying to relate one mindset to another

This is what I'm thinking. Butch has proven he can get the big dogs. Let's get them and not style for anything. Dominate.

 

[crusse10]

And all the other players on those Nebraska teams that did not make it to the league at all, that was Osborn deliberately attempting to fail to prepare them for life after college because he employed a gimmicky offense that did not prepare them for the league?

I'm thinking EVERY single player that signed to play for Nebraska during that time knew exactly what type of offense they were running BEFORE they signed their LOI. If their lifelong goal was to make it to the NFL and they thought playing for Nebraska would hinder that goal, the player and his family bear the responsibility for that decision.

Additionally, I don't ever recall a college coach being fired for not putting enough players into the league. Success for any college coach is judged by the number of wins, and sometimes who they are against. If you think coaches are more concerned about the number of players they put into the league than their won-loss record, you are the one fooling yourself.

The offense he chose to run was successful in college but had no impact in the NFL. Didn't say that he'd get fired for it. Nobody's firing Chris Petersen, either. I just like to see Vols go on to promising professional careers.

Again, this all goes back to a guy saying that he wouldn't care if nobody went to the NFL as long as UT did well.

That's selfish.

You can argue it all you want, that won't change the fact that you don't care what happens to the players as long as you can brag about your favorite college football team's win-loss record.

 

[sanddune50]

Glad you cannot understand that 5th and 7 th ranked class is not the same as a Dooley barely top 25 class or not even top 25. No similarity in recruiting at all. When 5 star Khalil commits our 7th class goes up even up even higher.

We lead for 4 star beasts Jefferson, Ordway, Phillips, and Richmond.

Zero comparison.

5 star JUCO DT DJ Jones as well.

 

[Burger]

Woody Quinn 2*
Lemond Johnson 3*
Jaylen Miller 3*
Kendall Vickers 3*
Jabo Lee 3*

North was a 4* so let's not count him. The OL guys were backups. And Dobbs Has less than a consensus with tennessee fans as being awesome. Who exactly were you blown away by, who was the diamond in the rough here that Butch found that were better than some 5* guy that we couldn't get?

We'll count woody, but most of those other guys need to let their careers play out before they're judged.

 

[crusse10]

5 star JUCO DT DJ Jones as well.

according to whom?

 

[PassedOutAwake]

Woody Quinn 2*
Lemond Johnson 3*
Jaylen Miller 3*
Kendall Vickers 3*
Jabo Lee 3*

North was a 4* so let's not count him. The OL guys were backups. And Dobbs Has less than a consensus with tennessee fans as being awesome. Who exactly were you blown away by, who was the diamond in the rough here that Butch found that were better than some 5* guy that we couldn't get?

Im not saying they are the greatest players on earth. But they played over guys that Dooley recruited.

Miller and Vickers redshirted. Jabo Lee is not on the team. Wiesman is one of our best linemen. Would I like to have 5*s? Yes. Is it possible to have a team thats nothing but 5*s? No. Bama takes 2* and 3* players every year. We are coming off of 4 losing seasons. We currently have 7 4* commits (per rivals).

Griffin, Reid, Smith, Picou and Dormady are all in line for a bump in the ratings. Dormady and Smith havent fully been evaluated yet and will get a bump. Woods probably wont end up signing, so theres one less 3* yall have to worry about. Longsnappers wont go above a 2*. So when you consider the 5 that could get bumps and take off Woods.... you have 3 guys that wont be 4* or higher... 1 of which is a long snapper.

 

[Nationdom]

North 6.0 4*
Swafford 5.4 2*
Josh Dobbs 5.7 3*
Dylan Wiesman 5.6 3*
AJ Branisel 5.6 3*

All of these guys did well for freshman last year. If stars matter so much, then why did Vandy beat UT, UGA and UF last year?

Because they had a great coach. I've told you this before I believe. I don't like the guy but he's a great coach

 

[Nationdom]

Don't worry. Be happy. Get a life.

How long have you been following recruiting? Al Wilson was not as highly rated as Daniel Brooks. Not even close. Chasing star ratings is dangerous at best. I would guess UT has had as many 5 * busts as the ones that worked out. Give me a bunch of 4*'s and some hungry 3 *'s any day with a punter, a kicker and a long snapper that aren't going to get more than a 3 anyway.

You don't get a damn thing for having the #1 recruiting class.

You actually get a tone of publicity and exposure and for often then not a lot of wins and national champs. See Alabama.

 

[callmecrockett]

We'll count woody, but most of those other guys need to let their careers play out before they're judged.

Exactly, the same can be said about the others that he posted, (again, not counting 4* North). All I am saying is that we need to stop anointing Butch as the all knowing savior when he really hasn't proven anything. Yes, the class of 2014 was awesome, but so was Ole Miss's 2013 class and I don't think that Freeze is going to be winning any titles any time soon.

Butch has us going in the right direction, but he isn't he hasn't proven anything yet. Trusting in Butch is great, but you would all agree that if we pulled 3 5* guys back to back to back you would be way more exited than with what we actually got. Stop kidding yourselves just because you are blinded by fandom.

 

[PassedOutAwake]

Yep, Butch doesnt know talent when he sees it. Must be why most of our commits got a bump in the ratings last year. Must be why Chris Weatherd had like 1 offer when he committed to UT... and then Bama, Oklahoma and TAMU and other schools started pursuing him. Must be he went from unranked to a 5.8 4*. Must be why Von Pearson didnt have any offers until Butch found him. Must be why he ended up a 6.0 4*

 

[Nationdom]

Yep, Butch doesnt know talent when he sees it. Must be why most of our commits got a bump in the ratings last year. Must be why Chris Weatherd had like 1 offer when he committed to UT... and then Bama, Oklahoma and TAMU and other schools started pursuing him. Must be he went from unranked to a 5.8 4*. Must be why Von Pearson didnt have any offers until Butch found him. Must be why he ended up a 6.0 4*

I like everything you said in this post but that was all LAST year. That wasn't this year. I hope it works out again but until they get bumped, it hasn't happened yet.

 

[callmecrockett]

Im not saying they are the greatest players on earth. But they played over guys that Dooley recruited.

Miller and Vickers redshirted. Jabo Lee is not on the team. Wiesman is one of our best linemen. Would I like to have 5*s? Yes. Is it possible to have a team thats nothing but 5*s? No. Bama takes 2* and 3* players every year. We are coming off of 4 losing seasons. We currently have 7 4* commits (per rivals).

Griffin, Reid, Smith, Picou and Dormady are all in line for a bump in the ratings. Dormady and Smith havent fully been evaluated yet and will get a bump. Woods probably wont end up signing, so theres one less 3* yall have to worry about. Longsnappers wont go above a 2*. So when you consider the 5 that could get bumps and take off Woods.... you have 3 guys that wont be 4* or higher... 1 of which is a long snapper.

This is exactly my point, the guys are playing over DOOLEYS PLAYERS. So "Butch is better than Dooley" is the argument that he is so great? We haven't seen these players be great so far so we have no concrete evidence that Butch is a great evaluator.

I understand that these guys will get bumps and that certain positions won't ever get the star power that others do. Again, I'm not saying that Butch isn't great, I'm just saying you guys are putting blind faith in something that hasn't been proven.

We will be taking a relatively small class this cycle and it feels like we are filling up with guys that aren't the caliber that we want. Plus, are we going to fill all these slots while we are still in on so much talent? I'm not saying it's bad, I'm just saying stop knocking guys for wanting big-name, big-talent guys that have the ranking backing them up on sites.