6 Years in Prison for Freaking Codeine!

#27
#27
DinkinFlicka said:
They both require a conscious decision, but I really don't see how that refutes addiction as a disease. Both herpes and addiction start with a foolish string of decisions. That doesn't change what the end product is.
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you can't just stop and start a disease.

DinkinFlicka said:
Rehab, detoxing, and dependence therapy exist because?
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same reason all kinds of things exist- because people have a hard time doing things on their own. No different than an auto repair shop

DinkinFlicka said:
Kick a romance with opium and then say it's a simple matter of "up and quitting." You also have to factor that most addictions stick with someone for a lifetime.
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the drug itself being addictive does not mean the addiction is a disease
 
#29
#29
DinkinFlicka said:
I'm saying it takes an idiot to fall into addiction. It takes treatment to help an addict.
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Sounds like that would've been the obvious choise when 6 years of prison was staring him in the face.

I'll stick with my original assessment, he's a dumbasss.
 
#30
#30
utvolpj said:
you can't just stop and start a disease.
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Let's compare addiction to bipolar disorder. Like addiction, bipolar disorder stick with someone for a lifetime. A bipolar man learns his father just died, inducing a manic episode. A former cokehead sees a few lines being cut at a party and has a sick yearning to relapse.

You can't stop addiction. You can only treat it and learn to work around it.


utvolpj said:
same reason all kinds of things exist- because people have a hard time doing things on their own. No different than an auto repair shop
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Wow, we're comparing substance abuse to auto-repair now. And I thought my own herpes analogy was funky.

I really don't see how mankind's codependency is relevant. There are plenty of sicknesses treated by physicians when in reality, a healthy supply of OJ, a warm bed, and a good puke can treat a multitude of illnesses. They're still illnesses, though.


utvolpj said:
the drug itself being addictive does not mean the addiction is a disease
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Excellent observation. Here's a handy diagram:

Sex is awesome, but you sometimes suffer consequences because of it.

Drugs are fun too, but if you do certain drugs too often, your body both chemically and psychologically demands more of that drug.
 
#31
#31
DinkinFlicka said:
Let's compare addiction to bipolar disorder. Like addiction, bipolar disorder stick with someone for a lifetime. A bipolar man learns his father just died, inducing a manic episode. A former cokehead sees a few lines being cut at a party and has a sick yearning to relapse.

You can't stop addiction. You can only treat it and learn to work around it
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you can absolutely stop addiction by never starting. How can the bi-polar person in your example make the same choice?

DinkinFlicka said:
Wow, we're comparing substance abuse to auto-repair now. And I thought my own herpes analogy was funky.
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nope I'm comparing the treatment

DinkinFlicka said:
Drugs are fun too, but if you do certain drugs too often, your body both chemically and psychologically demands more of that drug.
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don't start and you aren't addicted. It not as if info on the dangers is scarce
 
#32
#32
utvolpj said:
you can absolutely stop addiction by never starting. How can the bi-polar person in your example make the same choice?
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PJ, people do stupid things. Getting caught up in addiction is a stupid thing, but some things can't be rolled back. I'm saying that addiction itself is a disease. Regardless of how stupid one must be to fall into it, it's still a disease. A disease one has to cope with every time the thought of doing their DoC strolls through their mind.


utvolpj said:
nope I'm comparing the treatment
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Great. Do people REALLY need to go to the doctor when they get a cold? How is a cold a disease when the treatment is easy without professional help?


utvolpj said:
don't start and you aren't addicted. It not as if info on the dangers is scarce
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Same goes for STD's, dude. We're starting to go in circles.
 
#34
#34
DrunkJohnny said:
DinkinFlicka do you think Johnny should have gone to prison? How many chances should he be given to go to rehab?
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I don't think these substances should be regulated, so no.

I can't really answer the second part of that question given the premise of my first answer.
 
#35
#35
DinkinFlicka said:
PJ, people do stupid things. Getting caught up in addiction is a stupid thing, but some things can't be rolled back. I'm saying that addiction itself is a disease. Regardless of how stupid one must be to fall into it, it's still a disease. A disease one has to cope with every time the thought of doing their DoC strolls through their mind.
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I suppose over shopping, eating and internet addictions are real diseases too? After all, once you they stop

DinkinFlicka said:
Great. Do people REALLY need to go to the doctor when they get a cold? How is a cold a disease when the treatment is easy without professional help?
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no and some don't. Which pretty much proves my point that some need others to help them do what they don't feel like they can accomplish on their own.

Trying to justify it as a disease also falls in here. People are much less likely to criticize when the problem is "out of their control" like the word disease has come to mean. I mean, how can you be mad at the broke crackhead when they have a disease and can't control it?

DinkinFlicka said:
Same goes for STD's, dude. We're starting to go in circles.
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can you track the STD back to a specific thing like a virus? Please tell me what virus causes drug addiction. Is it the same/different than the one for alcohol? Shopping? Eating?
 
#36
#36
DinkinFlicka said:
I don't think these substances should be regulated, so no.

I can't really answer the second part of that question given the premise of my first answer.
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Sorry, I wasn't clear. I'm talking about the real world. The one where Jolly was given multiple chances to go to rehab and get clean and he didn't.

Should the judge have given him another chance? If so, how many?
 
#37
#37
utvolpj said:
I suppose over shopping, eating and internet addictions are real diseases too? After all, once you they stop
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No they aren't, because drugs are addictive due to severe chemical reactions they cause in the long term. There's a reason quitting them is immensely difficult.

utvolpj said:
no and some don't. Which pretty much proves my point that some need others to help them do what they don't feel like they can accomplish on their own.
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And I agree with you on that point. I've had friends detox and work out their own restrictions without the help of a doctor. However, it sticks with them. They can't be around their DoC because they are very liable to slip up. I can't imagine why, seeing as kicking a habit is as easy as stopping... right?


utvolpj said:
Trying to justify it as a disease also falls in here. People are much less likely to criticize when the problem is "out of their control" like the word disease has come to mean. I mean, how can you be mad at the broke crackhead when they have a disease and can't control it?
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I never once said the addict is blameless, even in the midst of the addiction itself long after one was dumb enough to try it. It certainly takes drive and effort to perpetuate a problem like that, but it's silly to say they can simply get up and stop. It simply does not work like that. I had friends with tons of willpower, and it meant absolutely nothing after a couple of months with an Oxy romance. Nothing.

utvolpj said:
can you track the STD back to a specific thing like a virus? Please tell me what virus causes drug addiction. Is it the same/different than the one for alcohol? Shopping? Eating?
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I was talking about how both STD's and drugs start with a stupid string of choices, but go down that road if you want.
 
#40
#40
DrunkJohnny said:
Sorry, I wasn't clear. I'm talking about the real world. The one where Jolly was given multiple chances to go to rehab and get clean and he didn't.

Should the judge have given him another chance? If so, how many?
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Ah, you used the fictional name. Threw me off.

two words: mandatory rehab... no leaving of grounds. Jolly must attend group meetings. He must undergo detox therapy. He has to do it for an extended period (sentence). I'd say 6 months to 3 years, depending on what the right people deem necessary. Basically, prison with a purpose outside of shutting a person away from society for a certain period of time and doing nothing to change them as a human being.

Rapists, murderers, and thieves deserve prison time. Addicts do not.
 
#41
#41
DrunkJohnny said:
Sorry, I wasn't clear. I'm talking about the real world. The one where Jolly was given multiple chances to go to rehab and get clean and he didn't.

Should the judge have given him another chance? If so, how many?
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How does society benefit by putting him in prison?
 
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#43
#43
nbakerld said:
How does society benefit by putting him in prison?
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Not at all. But we aren't dealing in la la land right now. He was facing 6 years in prison and couldn't stop chugging cough syrup. He should expect no sympathy, and has no one to blame.
 
#48
#48
I swear, if there were a law that stated blue pants were illegal, someone would find a way to defend a guy going to jail for wearing old school levis.

Yes, they're laws of the land. No, that does not mean someone is bad/deserving of jail time for breaking some of them.
 
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#49
#49
DrunkJohnny said:
Not at all. But we aren't dealing in la la land right now. He was facing 6 years in prison and couldn't stop chugging cough syrup. He should expect no sympathy, and has no one to blame.
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OK, that's fine. You can make the conversation about whether or not he should blame himself...the rest of us are talking about justice.
 
#50
#50
DinkinFlicka said:
I swear, if there were a law that stated blue pants were illegal, someone would find a way to defend a guy going to jail for wearing old school levis.

Yes, they're laws of the land. No, that does not mean someone is bad/deserving of jail time for breaking some of them.
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I agree with you.

In this case, I'm just having a hard time giving a ****. He was already given more chances than a "normal" person would get.
 
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