9 Americans Dead after Mexican cartel attack

#201
#201
marcusluvsvols said:
I am always hesitant to put US soldiers, sailors, and airmen at risk...note my stances in the sandbox. This comes I guess primarily from being raised in a very military family. That said, this isnt a case IMO where drone strikes would finish the task, and tomahawks etc would kill too many civilians. I would like to see a division or so of Marines committed to the task complete with longbow Apaches and Abrams main battle tanks. Also drones and special forces units where needed.
In areas such as Juarez where the cartels have strongholds and many hundreds of wannabe soldiers...I suggest the Israeli method. Drop fliers for 48 to 72 hours in advance telling everyone that if they are not part of or loyal to the cartels then they need to leave town immediately. Then when time is up, kill every living thing and destroy every standing structure and vehicle occupied by enemy combatants and sympathizers. Absolutely no mercy or quarter given. These cartels have all US and some Soviet weapons which I have seen....50 cal anti aircraft and 50 cal BMG sniper rifles, grenades and launchers...they have shown no mercy. We should show less.

This should only need to be done once or twice. Will it solve their drug problems or get rid of all the cartels??? No. Surely not.

Will it put an end to any mistreatment of US citizens knowing that the price is surely death? Yes. Yes it will. Just like the terrorists and arabs in the ME..all these people understand is death. All they respect is death. We should give it to them in abundance. They will recognize it immediately...and fear the US military as they should.
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Watch the first season of Narcos if you haven't already. When Columbia went after the cartels, they resorted to domestic terrorism. The same would happen here. Just look at what happened when the Mexican army captured Chapo's son a few weeks ago. The cartel just started randomly killing people and burning stuff down until he was released.
 
#207
#207
508mikey said:
pos is on the cartel payroll --- Mexican President Andrés Manuel López Obrador rejected the offer of military help Tuesday. “I think we don’t need intervention,” he said.
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Or he doesnt want someone to invade his country. You want Mexico bombing the US countryside everytime one of their citizens gets wronged in the US?
 
#208
#208
evillawyer said:
Watch the first season of Narcos if you haven't already. When Columbia went after the cartels, they resorted to domestic terrorism. The same would happen here. Just look at what happened when the Mexican army captured Chapo's son a few weeks ago. The cartel just started randomly killing people and burning stuff down until he was released.
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But otherwise they behave themselves right?

Not for us getting involved here but you cant let criminals go because other criminals do more criminal things. You are rewarding bad behavior.
 
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#209
#209
LouderVol said:
Or he doesnt want someone to invade his country. You want Mexico bombing the US countryside everytime one of their citizens gets wronged in the US?
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No, he's dirty, and too many around him and all around Mexico and the USA are on "payrolls" because they are either greedy low life pos, or took the bribery to avoid the threats levied against them and their families and friends and anyone else who could get killed or disappear.

Until the money is gone, the corruption, the drug issue remains secondary as the result of the drug trade is the point, money.

I don't know of an easy answer, but, common sense and thinking yield only one thing that will work, and people will have to live with the act and not complain. Make everything legal, and cheaper than dirt. I don't want heroin or meth legal, but, you want the issue to go away, you must make it so there is no money in it. The results aren't pretty for society other than alleviating the issue.

You also have to overcome the existing powers that be that profit, and counter the cartels ruthless modes of operating. Which means, you will have to do things that no one will want to hear about, and the tactics will be on level and worse than what the cartels currently carry out.

All around a fu***** terrible situation.
 
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#210
#210
tennvols77 said:
No, he's dirty, and too many around him and all around Mexico and the USA are on "payrolls" because they are either greedy low life pos, or took the bribery to avoid the threats levied against them and their families and friends and anyone else who could get killed or disappear.

Until the money is gone, the corruption, the drug issue remains secondary as the result of the drug trade is the point, money.

I don't know of an easy answer, but, common sense and thinking yield only one thing that will work, and people will have to live with the act and not complain. Make everything legal, and cheaper than dirt. I don't want heroin or meth legal, but, you want the issue to go away, you must make it so there is no money in it. The results aren't pretty for society other than alleviating the issue.

You also have to overcome the existing powers that be that profit, and counter the cartels ruthless modes of operating. Which means, you will have to do things that no one will want to hear about, and the tactics will be on level and worse than what the cartels currently carry out.

All around a fu***** terrible situation.
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Stay the eff out of their business and they stay the eff out of ours.

We arent going to fix Mexico. I could point to any number of examples. Afghanistan's and Iraq being the most current. But look at any of the CIA playing government builders south of the border. Failures.

The only nation that has turned itself around is the one nation that whooped are buts out of their country. Vietnam.

We are not the answer to the world's problems. Americans living in Mexico isnt not Americans problem.
 
#211
#211
LouderVol said:
Stay the eff out of their business and they stay the eff out of ours.

We arent going to fix Mexico. I could point to any number of examples. Afghanistan's and Iraq being the most current. But look at any of the CIA playing government builders south of the border. Failures.

The only nation that has turned itself around is the one nation that whooped are buts out of their country. Vietnam.

We are not the answer to the world's problems. Americans living in Mexico isnt not Americans problem.
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The business is the issue. We can fix the issue of drugs, we choose not to, because of, money, and how far it reaches and who it touches.

You bring up the CIA, good example of what I'm saying, how is it that heroin was basically nonexistent in the 90's and early 2000's, and yet, after we go into Afghanistan, low and behold, heroin has become an epidemic........corruption, money, ..........

I agree, Americans living in Mexico aren't America's problem. However, the cartels and the Mexican government and it's willful, or unwilling, but, fearful acquiescence are.
 
#212
#212
tennvols77 said:
The business is the issue. We can fix the issue of drugs, we choose not to, because of, money, and how far it reaches and who it touches.

You bring up the CIA, good example of what I'm saying, how is it that heroin was basically nonexistent in the 90's and early 2000's, and yet, after we go into Afghanistan, low and behold, heroin has become an epidemic........corruption, money, ..........

I agree, Americans living in Mexico aren't America's problem. However, the cartels and the Mexican government and it's willful, or unwilling, but, fearful acquiescence are.
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Got news for you. Heroin has been around for a long time. It only recently has hit the fan because of fentanyl.
 
#213
#213
tennvols77 said:
The business is the issue. We can fix the issue of drugs, we choose not to, because of, money, and how far it reaches and who it touches.

You bring up the CIA, good example of what I'm saying, how is it that heroin was basically nonexistent in the 90's and early 2000's, and yet, after we go into Afghanistan, low and behold, heroin has become an epidemic........corruption, money, ..........

I agree, Americans living in Mexico aren't America's problem. However, the cartels and the Mexican government and it's willful, or unwilling, but, fearful acquiescence are.
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Wait, heroin wasn't an epidemic until *after* Afghanistan?

Lol. Ok.
 
#214
#214
37L1 said:
Got news for you. Heroin has been around for a long time. It only recently has hit the fan because of fentanyl.
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I know it has been around, but, knowing from growing up and having a good time and being a good time guy (never touched coke or anything worse than pot and shrooms) yet, knew the crowd. It was not prevalent, it was a back alley drug, and minimal compared to today. It did begin to come back in the late 90's, my buddy tried it when he was at Harvard at the time in '99.........go figure.......

It is just the current fentanyl craze that brought more notoriety, but, heroin was on a huge uptick after 2004-5. Fentanyl wasn't around then, only recently, but, the heroin "epidemic" is post 2004/5, and has grown and still is an issue. Ohio has had a huge issue. Terrible drug.
 
#215
#215
DinkinFlicka said:
Wait, heroin wasn't an epidemic until *after* Afghanistan?

Lol. Ok.
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Yes. It existed, it was around, but, it wasn't available readily and easily and prevelant with younger people. I know it has never gone away, but, it was not what it became after we entered Afghanistan.
 
#216
#216
tennvols77 said:
I know it has been around, but, knowing from growing up and having a good time and being a good time guy (never touched coke or anything worse than pot and shrooms) yet, knew the crowd. It was not prevalent, it was a back alley drug, and minimal compared to today. It did begin to come back in the late 90's, my buddy tried it when he was at Harvard at the time in '99.........go figure.......

It is just the current fentanyl craze that brought more notoriety, but, heroin was on a huge uptick after 2004-5. Fentanyl wasn't around then, only recently, but, the heroin "epidemic" is post 2004/5, and has grown and still is an issue. Ohio has had a huge issue. Terrible drug.
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Got news for you, large urban areas have had a heroin problem since the 60's. Look around at some of the "famous people" who have been hooked on heroin, died of an OD or had to go through rehab. Maybe you just woke up to it in the early 2000's, but free syringe programs actually predate that time. Ever wonder why? They were originally started to help combat the spread of AIDS, which made itself a big problem in the early 80's. People were shooting up heroin and sharing needles. Black tar heroin was flowing into the country from Mexico big time in the 80's.
 
#217
#217
tennvols77 said:
The business is the issue. We can fix the issue of drugs, we choose not to, because of, money, and how far it reaches and who it touches.

You bring up the CIA, good example of what I'm saying, how is it that heroin was basically nonexistent in the 90's and early 2000's, and yet, after we go into Afghanistan, low and behold, heroin has become an epidemic........corruption, money, ..........

I agree, Americans living in Mexico aren't America's problem. However, the cartels and the Mexican government and it's willful, or unwilling, but, fearful acquiescence are.
Click to expand...
We can fix the drug issue? How long have we been at war with that? 40years almost?
 
#218
#218
tennvols77 said:
I know it has been around, but, knowing from growing up and having a good time and being a good time guy (never touched coke or anything worse than pot and shrooms) yet, knew the crowd. It was not prevalent, it was a back alley drug, and minimal compared to today. It did begin to come back in the late 90's, my buddy tried it when he was at Harvard at the time in '99.........go figure.......

It is just the current fentanyl craze that brought more notoriety, but, heroin was on a huge uptick after 2004-5. Fentanyl wasn't around then, only recently, but, the heroin "epidemic" is post 2004/5, and has grown and still is an issue. Ohio has had a huge issue. Terrible drug.
Click to expand...

A back alley drug that killed way more high profile users than it does today.

Makes sense?
 
#219
#219
evillawyer said:
Watch the first season of Narcos if you haven't already. When Columbia went after the cartels, they resorted to domestic terrorism. The same would happen here. Just look at what happened when the Mexican army captured Chapo's son a few weeks ago. The cartel just started randomly killing people and burning stuff down until he was released.
Click to expand...
Watch the same season and see why they didnt go after CIA. They feared reprisals. They know the Mexican government will cave. They know the US can drone strike or guided missile their ass to oblivion.
 
#221
#221
evillawyer said:
Watch the first season of Narcos if you haven't already. When Columbia went after the cartels, they resorted to domestic terrorism. The same would happen here. Just look at what happened when the Mexican army captured Chapo's son a few weeks ago. The cartel just started randomly killing people and burning stuff down until he was released.
Click to expand...

Disregard the Hollywood version for a moment and research exactly what the Medellin cartel was doing to anyone in a position of authority that obstructed them and their goals.

The cartels were responsible for some gruesome acts of violence against Colombian citizens long before the government began cracking down with assistance from the US.
 
#222
#222
Roustabout said:
Watch the same season and see why they didnt go after CIA. They feared reprisals. They know the Mexican government will cave. They know the US can drone strike or guided missile their ass to oblivion.
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Or ask some SF guys to have some night time shenanigans.
 
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#224
#224
The killing of this family does not pass the smell test. I believe there's more to this story than we're being told.

Did they take a wrong turn, is this were their family members live. They keep reporting several children survived, hidden in the bushes ( 8 month old) while a teen walked 14 miles for help. Why would the gunman allow these children to survive? I could see overlooking one or two but overlooking several witnesses.
Another one that stayed behind left after the first child did not return and walked four hours for help.

I read another article that stated someone heard the noise, saw the smoke and quickly raced to the area and saw three gunman leaving. But he did not see the children hiding or hear a baby crying.

Maybe I'm reading more into this than I should but I just have a feeling this family is involve in some bad things.
 
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