90% of the issues with CFB can be resolved one way

[Ned Ray McWorkher]

There are no issues with college football that could be "solved" by re-restricting the kids. It's only a bunch whining & complaining from a certain group about players transferring during the open portal windows and the kids making nil money. The only fix is to quit yer crying.

 

[GVF]

These guys are showing the roadmap, however. Shine at your current school, then market yourself for that big NIL payout.

Your suggestion that NIL needs to fade is not workable anyway. How does a school get around the "revenue sharing cap?" Via NIL, which is a private contract even pro leagues can't and don't limit (except for some product restrictions.)

It's not legal to limit NIL, so it's always there to "raise the stakes" to get a player just like under the table payments did for years.

Grad transfers have existed for a minute. If a player had eligibility left. This is not new. Being able to do it at anytime now is though. I never understood having to sit out a year if transferring as an undergrad though. Other than to protect a university's scholarship investment in a student maybe. But, no restrictions...we see how that plays out rather quickly already.

 

[GVF]

There are no issues with college football that could be "solved" by re-restricting the kids. It's only a bunch whining & complaining from a certain group about players transferring during the open portal windows and the kids making nil money. The only fix is to quit yer crying.

There's currently more restrictions on Pro players. They can't play in Green Bay this season and just jump to Tampa next for more money, on their own free will. And why would a college QB deserve, or have earned, the right to make as much money as a pro. This could have been done in a far better way had the NCAA not ignored it for so long just because they are lazy and inept. Their is little to no difference in the NCAA and the Fed Gov.

And none of what is going on now addresses the pit falls of having free reign in the portal. The financial burden placed on over half hte players going into the portal isn't being discussed. They want to go for more NIL. They don't get picked up for anything reasonable or at all. They lost hteir scholly at their current school. They have to now pay rent, and an assortment of other financial obligations now that they have tested the portal and failed. Money they don't have because they became a portal casualty instead of honoring the situation they were in, and being cared for. Now it's all gone. The portal doesn't spit out all that enter into a better place. Portal success is a minority percentage.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Salary caps exist in pro sports. There's already a legal roadmap.

Antitrust Exemptions and collective bargaining. They ONLY exist because Congress lets them exist and don't exist without collective bargaining, unionization, etc.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

There's currently more restrictions on Pro players. They can't play in Green Bay this season and just jump to Tampa next for more money, on their own free will. And why would a college QB deserve, or have earned, the right to make as much money as a pro. This could have been done in a far better way had the NCAA not ignored it for so long just because they are lazy and inept. Their is little to no difference in the NCAA and the Fed Gov.

Again, this is all made possible because Congress granted THE PRO LEAGUES Antitrust Exemptions.

If that starts in college, you've created another pro league with unions, salary caps, free agency, drafts for parity, etc, etc. ALL those things are a result of the players and the league NEGOTIATING those terms as professionals.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Grad transfers have existed for a minute. If a player had eligibility left. This is not new. Being able to do it at anytime now is though. I never understood having to sit out a year if transferring as an undergrad though. Other than to protect a university's scholarship investment in a student maybe. But, no restrictions...we see how that plays out rather quickly already.

The schools and states sued the NCAA to have unrestricted transfers. It's definitely not on the players who couldn't have created that system because they don't have the power. Look DIRECTLY at the TN Atty General who joined those "multi transfer" lawsuits filed by other states. You can bet he talked it over with Randy Boyd, Donde Plowman, and Danny White before doing it.

The schools sued to be able to sign multi billion dollar media deals and the NCAA tried to stop it years ago and lost.

The blame is on the admins, including at UT, who turned college football into this mess.

 

[GVF]

Again, this is all made possible because Congress granted THE PRO LEAGUES Antitrust Exemptions.

If that starts in college, you've created another pro league with unions, salary caps, free agency, drafts for parity, etc, etc. ALL those things are a result of the players and the league NEGOTIATING those terms as professionals.

Is that not the direction all this is headed and will end up?

The only way to avoid that is to go back to pure scholly play for an education, but ammend it with monthly stipends.

Music majors are next depending on how it plays out with the athletes. Take out the names and the disciplines and there is no discernible differences.

 

[GVF]

The schools and states sued the NCAA to have unrestricted transfers. It's definitely not on the players who couldn't have created that system because they don't have the power. Look DIRECTLY at the TN Atty General who joined those "multi transfer" lawsuits filed by other states. You can bet he talked it over with Randy Boyd, Donde Plowman, and Danny White before doing it.

The schools sued to be able to sign multi billion dollar media deals and the NCAA tried to stop it years ago and lost.

The blame is on the admins, including at UT, who turned college football into this mess.

No argument here on that. Wonder if any of them sit at home at night sipping Jack and going oh crap...

Pandora's box was opened. And it's a mess. But, I will always be old school in my views on scholly's and athlete's were already being fronted $100g for a degree. At this point it's purely about best case resolution and practice. And soon.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Is that not the direction all this is headed and will end up?

The only way to avoid that is to go back to pure scholly play for an education, but ammend it with monthly stipends.

Music majors are next depending on how it plays out with the athletes. Take out the names and the disciplines and there is no discernible differences.

The school isn't, to the best of my knowledge, signing multi billion dollar TV deals on the backs of the various bands at UT. I might be wrong but I don't think they are.

This is all about greed and money. Fans wanted football all day Saturday on TV, media companies wanted to provide that and sell ads, schools saw $$$$$, schools sued the NCAA who had restricted media deals, schools won, money flowed generously to the schools, and a business was born.

Schools and the NCAA fought decades to keep from sharing any money with the players because it inevitably looks like what it is: pay for play..... better known as "employed athletes making money for the school."

It was doomed after the schools sued to get that TV revenue.

 

[GetYouSomeofThat]

You're completely ignoring the academic calendar. The National Championship is in the next semester. That's why the portal is arranged the way it is. There are no easy solutions to this. It's why we are where we are. But we're equipped to deal with it much better than most teams across the country.

Agreed.

However, only have one portal window in April/May. Problem solved

 

[Delmar]

The school isn't, to the best of my knowledge, signing multi billion dollar TV deals on the backs of the various bands at UT. I might be wrong but I don't think they are.

This is all about greed and money. Fans wanted football all day Saturday on TV, media companies wanted to provide that and sell ads, schools saw $$$$$, schools sued the NCAA who had restricted media deals, schools won, money flowed generously to the schools, and a business was born.

Schools and the NCAA fought decades to keep from sharing any money with the players because it inevitably looks like what it is: pay for play..... better known as "employed athletes making money for the school."

It was doomed after the schools sued to get that TV revenue.

Yep. And 100,000 folks aren’t dropping $200 a ticket seven times every fall to see the tuba players. Some folks have this grand idea that the old days are coming back. Pretty sure they also believe in unicorns and the tooth fairy too.

 

[Delmar]

Agreed.

However, only have one portal window in April/May. Problem solved

That probably would put a damper on it but I don’t see it happening. What happens when the guy misses spring practice? That puts them at a major disadvantage headed into the following fall if he can’t enroll till summer. Just another lawsuit waiting to happen.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Agreed.

However, only have one portal window in April/May. Problem solved

Not really a big deal. Almost all the players that are wanted hit the portal in the Spring now. It might keep it from getting worse.

While the committee suggested it, the schools rejected it.

NCAA committee proposes eliminating spring transfer portal window by 2025 in attempt to stabilize rosters

The recommendation is from the NCAA's Football Oversight Committee

www.cbssports.com

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

There are no issues with college football that could be "solved" by re-restricting the kids. It's only a bunch whining & complaining from a certain group about players transferring during the open portal windows and the kids making nil money. The only fix is to quit yer crying.

AMEN!!! This x 1,000!!!

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

Not really a big deal. Almost all the players that are wanted hit the portal in the Spring now. It might keep it from getting worse.

While the committee suggested it, the schools rejected it.

NCAA committee proposes eliminating spring transfer portal window by 2025 in attempt to stabilize rosters

The recommendation is from the NCAA's Football Oversight Committee

www.cbssports.com

Problem NOT solved.

The athletes are free to transfer as soon as the fall semester ends. The new semester starts in early January. The December portal window is necessary to account for that.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

No argument here on that. Wonder if any of them sit at home at night sipping Jack and going oh crap...

Pandora's box was opened. And it's a mess. But, I will always be old school in my views on scholly's and athlete's were already being fronted $100g for a degree. At this point it's purely about best case resolution and practice. And soon.

The concept is "fair market value".
The market decides. Not the NCAA, not you, not anyone not involved in a NIL deal.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Problem NOT solved.

The athletes are free to transfer as soon as the fall semester ends. The new semester starts in early January. The December portal window is necessary to account for that.

Yeah, but the current fact is that most of the top players leave in the Spring portal window. That's all I was pointing toward.

The problem with trying to "close" or "limit" the portal is you end up with guys who WANT to leave but can't leave. It's bad for the team and bad for the individual player.

This happens even in the pros when a guy wants a trade and is basically a cancer in the locker room.

 

[GVF]

The school isn't, to the best of my knowledge, signing multi billion dollar TV deals on the backs of the various bands at UT. I might be wrong but I don't think they are.

This is all about greed and money. Fans wanted football all day Saturday on TV, media companies wanted to provide that and sell ads, schools saw $$$$$, schools sued the NCAA who had restricted media deals, schools won, money flowed generously to the schools, and a business was born.

Schools and the NCAA fought decades to keep from sharing any money with the players because it inevitably looks like what it is: pay for play..... better known as "employed athletes making money for the school."

It was doomed after the schools sued to get that TV revenue.

Don't have to be signing multi billion dollar deals on bands or art majors, etc. The premise is the same. Scholarship for a service. A scolarship student is a scholarship student at it's core. One the new precedent is decided, other scholarship students will challenge. It may be 10 years out. But, it'll be challenged. Any scholarship student has always been pay for play. We give you a $80,000 or more education, you do this for us. They just denied the core concept of what a scholarship is.

Ivy League may skate by. I thought those schools structured it all differently ???

 

[GVF]

The concept is "fair market value".
The market decides. Not the NCAA, not you, not anyone not involved in a NIL deal.

I get all that. I'm just not a fan. I prefer the old way. Meaningful conference alignments and proper scholarships. High graduation rates. I could even go for "exit payments" to help athletes whose careers did not advance past college get their post athletic life established.

I'm not against college athletes having something more than has been in the past. I just think the path it took is detrimental in the long run. I don't have answers. I have my opinions. But, it was never successfully addressed to avoid what has happened.

 

[GVF]

Yeah, but the current fact is that most of the top players leave in the Spring portal window. That's all I was pointing toward.

The problem with trying to "close" or "limit" the portal is you end up with guys who WANT to leave but can't leave. It's bad for the team and bad for the individual player.

This happens even in the pros when a guy wants a trade and is basically a cancer in the locker room.

Which is why they offer two transfer windows. To accommodate players that did not forego playoffs or bowls. And that's OK. The first window will always be mostly limted play players that will likely have no impact one way or the other. Except missing the experience of a title run with teammates. They won't all find a landing spot. Gotta try and get picked up asap so you don't screw your finances when you lose your current scholly.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Don't have to be signing multi billion dollar deals on bands or art majors, etc. The premise is the same. Scholarship for a service. A scolarship student is a scholarship student at it's core. One the new precedent is decided, other scholarship students will challenge. It may be 10 years out. But, it'll be challenged. Any scholarship student has always been pay for play. We give you a $80,000 or more education, you do this for us. They just denied the core concept of what a scholarship is.

Ivy League may skate by. I thought those schools structured it all differently ???

There's no business behind most academic scholarships though that varies with professors sometimes changing schools and essentially bringing their grad school students with them for their work on grants and research, which is lucrative for some schools.

There's almost no revenue in concerts unless the band is a "touring" group like some of the Acapella singers or I believe a few others. Even then, I can't imagine that's making enough money to be considered "a job for the university" though I suppose anything can be litigated.

The obvious issue of the SEC signing multi-billion dollar TV revenue deals, creating state of the art training facilities, creating state of the art stadiums even bigger than pro stadiums, etc...... doesn't compare to anything else the university does.

But sure, have it your way. It might happen.

 

[GVF]

There's no business behind most academic scholarships though that varies with professors sometimes changing schools and essentially bringing their grad school students with them for their work on grants and research, which is lucrative for some schools.

There's almost no revenue in concerts unless the band is a "touring" group like some of the Acapella singers or I believe a few others. Even then, I can't imagine that's making enough money to be considered "a job for the university" though I suppose anything can be litigated.

The obvious issue of the SEC signing multi-billion dollar TV revenue deals, creating state of the art training facilities, creating state of the art stadiums even bigger than pro stadiums, etc...... doesn't compare to anything else the university does.

But sure, have it your way. It might happen.

They do not have to generate revenue. They just have to be providing a service for an education. Pay for play. That's exactly what a scholly is. Revenue is irrelevant. It's the transaction. Students on academic rides have to meet contractual obligations pertaining to grades. Any scholly student has to fulfill contractual obligations in some form or another. Generating revenue in those obligations does not change the premise. If my grades dip. I lose scholly. If I quit band. Lose scholly. Give up art. Lose scholly. Has nothing to do with generating revenue. It's providing a service/fulfilling an obligation for a benefit. They're all the same in the fine print. And when that fine print finds it's new resting place, others will say what about us, and the challenges begin. Any kid on any scholly has always been an extension (and a representative) of the university in some form. That is simply an employee that has been denied being an employee.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

They do not have to generate revenue. They just have to be providing a service for an education. Pay for play. That's exactly what a scholly is. Revenue is irrelevant. It's the transaction. Students on academic rides have to meet contractual obligations pertaining to grades. Any scholly student has to fulfill contractual obligations in some form or another. Generating revenue in those obligations does not change the premise. If my grades dip. I lose scholly. If I quit band. Lose scholly. Give up art. Lose scholly. Has nothing to do with generating revenue. It's providing a service/fulfilling an obligation for a benefit. They're all the same in the fine print. And when that fine print finds it's new resting place, others will say what about us, and the challenges begin.

As I read Alston v NCAA (not an attorney) the reasoning they had was technical, as I recall a specific legal test, of employment which one of the Justice's laid out.

Specifically, the idea that the NCAA and schools had essentially "created a business centered upon the work of the players without compensating them" was key.

I'm not sure the university can be seen as "creating a business centered upon the work of" musicians, artists, etc.

I'll allow that I've seen research labs that work grad students for little money and that research brings pretty big grant money to the school.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

I get all that. I'm just not a fan. I prefer the old way. Meaningful conference alignments and proper scholarships. High graduation rates. I could even go for "exit payments" to help athletes whose careers did not advance past college get their post athletic life established.

I'm not against college athletes having something more than has been in the past. I just think the path it took is detrimental in the long run. I don't have answers. I have my opinions. But, it was never successfully addressed to avoid what has happened.

Just because you're comfortable with the old way doesn't magically make that way not illegal, not exploitation, and not a complete ethical fail on the part of those that enriched themselves on the athletes' backs.

 

[RandomUTfan]

Just because you're comfortable with the old way doesn't magically make that way not illegal, not exploitation, and not a complete ethical fail on the part of those that enriched themselves in the athletes' backs.

Very well said. And if this system that actually pays an athlete for their labor cannot last, then it was not meant to succeed. I don't think the sport will ever have guardrails again, and that will ruin it for a whole lot of people. You have entire industries built around these college football programs desperate to convince fans they can still compete with their rivals even after the supposed GOAT walks away from the program because he sees the writing on the wall. Just an example.