A "come to Jesus" moment

#26
#26
VolGee4 said:
You don't have to have a full roster of them. If Mookie Betts was currently on the team, we would probably have at least 5 more wins.
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Maybe, maybe not. I'm not saying it wouldn't help, especially with how this season has gone, but if this team had even a serviceable bullpen (just guessing 2nd/3rd-tier guys from Florida) this team would have 8 wins in conference right now. The point is, the top teams/players from states like Florida and Georgia are better than the top teams/players from Tennessee. There are a few exceptions occasionally, but if you can get 2nd/3rd tier guys from Florida, you're in much better shape than getting 2nd/3rd tier guys from Tennessee.
 
#27
#27
whobethis16 said:
Maybe, maybe not. I'm not saying it wouldn't help, especially with how this season has gone, but if this team had even a serviceable bullpen (just guessing 2nd/3rd-tier guys from Florida) this team would have 8 wins in conference right now. The point is, the top teams/players from states like Florida and Georgia are better than the top teams/players from Tennessee. There are a few exceptions occasionally, but if you can get 2nd/3rd tier guys from Florida, you're in much better shape than getting 2nd/3rd tier guys from Tennessee.
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Agreed. So why let a kid like quillen, who pitched over 50inn as a freshmen irrc, walk away after one year?

Kid now is a Friday night starter in the ovc and was the pitcher of the week after striking out 16 in 7inn last week. That kid would be a big piece right now IMO
 
#28
#28
BruinVol said:
Agreed. So why let a kid like quillen, who pitched over 50inn as a freshmen irrc, walk away after one year?

Kid now is a Friday night starter in the ovc and was the pitcher of the week after striking out 16 in 7inn last week. That kid would be a big piece right now IMO
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He definitely would help, especially in hindsight. I don't know/remember why he wanted to leave. A bigger question is why let Cottam go to Kentucky. I know Serrano was in a kid that went to the draft, but that one hurts big.
 
#29
#29
whobethis16 said:
He definitely would help, especially in hindsight. I don't know/remember why he wanted to leave. A bigger question is why let Cottam go to Kentucky. I know Serrano was in a kid that went to the draft, but that one hurts big.
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Not sure Criticism is warranted on that one. We already had Santiago on the roster and not sure when the other catcher we have committed. If it was early in the process it easy to understand why we didn't recruit another catcher

We also had the elite high draft catcher committed but eventually lost him.

Pitching is clearly where this thing is wrong now
 
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#30
#30
Well, Cuba is opening up so we need to get UT administration representatives in place to open up that pipeline...:), and as metropolitan cities like Nashville, Knoxville, Chattanooga and Memphis continue to grow, they will continue to produce quality players. The tough job will be convincing them to come to UT.

GO BIG ORANGE!
 
#31
#31
whobethis16 said:
A .282 average and a .942 fielding percentage in college is really not very good.

Kyle Waldrop is a prime example of Tennessee pitchers (specifically Farragut) that do not live up to any of the expectations/hype.
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You exhibit an amazing ignorance about the game of baseball. Batting .282 in the SEC is not an easy task and it was one of the highest batting averages on the team (the Bergeron effect). It was parlayed into a $600K signing bonus by that "not very good" player

The statement about Waldrop is the dumbest one I have ever seen. He made it to the Major Leagues. You obviously have no clue how good you have to be to get there.
 
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#32
#32
BruinVol said:
Not sure Criticism is warranted on that one. We already had Santiago on the roster and not sure when the other catcher we have committed. If it was early in the process it easy to understand why we didn't recruit another catcher

We also had the elite high draft catcher committed but eventually lost him.

Pitching is clearly where this thing is wrong now
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It's pretty telling (I know, he's just a sophomore) that Santiago couldn't beat out Schultz. I recall Serrano mentioning something about Schultz having much better game/pitcher control than Santiago. Maybe he'll grow into it (doesn't have a choice otherwise come next year) but I would take a Cottam/Schultz 1-2 punch over a Schultz/Santiago 1-2.

But I do agree that pitching is the biggest concern at this point.
 
#33
#33
zachpack said:
Absolutely disagree with the original post. Besides some of the players mentioned above I can think of these just off the top of my head. I know there are a ton more too.

Wil Crowe (#1 RHP @ SC before injury); Will Craig (Wake Forest, ACC poy, future 1st rounder); Ben Breazeale (Wake Forest starting catcher for 3 years, Johnny Bench award nominee); Ross Grosvenor (USC 1b); Dakota Hudson (MS State, RHP ALL_AMERICAN!); Brady Bramlett (RHP,ole miss weekend starter);Kole Cottom (KY, starting catcher as freshman); Alabama has several Tennesseans, Vandy is loaded with 'em...on and on. Guarantee I could put together a team TN that would make it to Omaha.

The issue is that we need to get our fair share of them. Also, baseball is not like football and basketball. You only have 11.7 scholarships per 35 man roster. So, the trick is getting in state kids to come with either limited (.25%) schollys or if they are really smart, as "preferred walk-ons" where you let academic money (Hope scholarship) act as surrogate athletic scholarships. The CA and FL kids you are wanting have a tougher time because they still have to pay tuition as out of state kids, so a .25% or even a .50% scholarship still has them paying a lot to come here.
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A lot of truth in the last paragraph that the OP is apparently ignoring. Kids go to Vandy for reasons other than their coach. It's not a level playing field. We must recruit the state better, having said that Farragut kids are not the problem. Not even close.
 
#34
#34
jp1 said:
A lot of truth in the last paragraph that the OP is apparently ignoring. Kids go to Vandy for reasons other than their coach. It's not a level playing field. We must recruit the state better, having said that Farragut kids are not the problem. Not even close.
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I agree with this. Vanderbilt only has ten players from the state of Tennessee on their roster, and several of them are probably more inclined towards Vanderbilt regardless of financial aid packages. Three went to Montgomery Bell Academy, an elite private high school that costs about $30K per year.

Honestly, any in-state student that gets into Vanderbilt's baseball program probably qualifies for a hope scholarship anyway, which means UT would only have to expend a 0.75 scholarship on them to give them a free ride. If a kid is a difference maker, UT can offer that--particularly to a pitcher.

In my opinion, Tennessee is extremely lucky to have a high school program like Farragut in their back yard. One might suggest that the program relies too heavily on them, but my goodness, could you imagine what the program would be like without them?
 
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#35
#35
Diamond Dore said:
I agree with this. Vanderbilt only has ten players from the state of Tennessee on their roster, and several of them are probably more inclined towards Vanderbilt regardless of financial aid packages. Three went to Montgomery Bell Academy, an elite private high school that costs about $30K per year.

Honestly, any in-state student that gets into Vanderbilt's baseball program probably qualifies for a hope scholarship anyway, which means UT would only have to expend a 0.75 scholarship on them to give them a free ride. If a kid is a difference maker, UT can offer that--particularly to a pitcher.
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You think 75% scholarships are thrown around like candy?


If so you wouldn't get into Vandy unless of course you are an athlete admitted with exceptions
 
#36
#36
I've already gotten into Vanderbilt, and gotten out for that matter. I'm an alum.

I agree they aren't thrown around like candy, but for a true difference maker you can make the offer. Particularly for a 1st round pitching talent.

For that matter, give a half scholarship paired with a Hope scholarship and the kid is still only paying for one year of college. Unless he's gotten a complete full ride at Vandy, he's going to be paying more to go there.
 
#37
#37
Diamond Dore said:
I've already gotten into Vanderbilt, and gotten out for that matter. I'm an alum.

I agree they aren't thrown around like candy, but for a true difference maker you can make the offer. Particularly for a 1st round pitching talent.

For that matter, give a half scholarship paired with a Hope scholarship and the kid is still only paying for one year of college. Unless he's gotten a complete full ride at Vandy, he's going to be paying more to go there.
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IMO each roster can only afford 1-3 kids on that much scholarships that uses a true 11.7 system

That's why your $ set up is such a sham. Nearly All players are on that kind of $. Makes recruiting very very easy
 
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#38
#38
BruinVol said:
IMO each roster can only afford 1-3 kids on that much scholarships that uses a true 11.7 system

That's why your $ set up is such a sham. Nearly All players are on that kind of $. Makes recruiting very very easy
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I think that Vanderbilt certainly has an advantage. I don't think it is as extensive as people think it is. Dansby Swanson had to take out student loans to attend, so if he wasn't on a full ride, then i'm sure he's not the only one on the roster that was in that situation.

Further, Opportunity Vanderbilt doesn't necessarily help the kids from expensive private high schools. If their family can afford those schools at the high school level, their income is not going to get them a discount at Vanderbilt.
 
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#39
#39
Here are some interesting numbers from this years Golden Spikes Award mid season watch list. These numbers are where each of the finalist are from.
TN isn't as bad as some would like to believe! Where is Louisiana, KY, South Carolina, North Carolina, Mississippi? This is only a one year sample but you cannot tell me that someone can't win at TN. N. Carolina and S. Carolina have a lot more schools battling over talent then we do in TN and they all do pretty well....with ZERO players on this list that are from their states!

CA 9
FL 7
AL 5
TN 4 (Senzel, Craig, Reynolds, Hudson)
GA 4
TX 4
VA 3
IL 3
OK 2
MN 2
CO 2
WI 2
MO, MA, NY, NJ, WA, OH, PA, ARK, UT, and Ct, with 1 each
 
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#40
#40
Diamond Dore said:
I think that Vanderbilt certainly has an advantage. I don't think it is as extensive as people think it is. Dansby Swanson had to take out student loans to attend, so if he wasn't on a full ride, then i'm sure he's not the only one on the roster that was in that situation.

Further, Opportunity Vanderbilt doesn't necessarily help the kids from expensive private high schools. If their family can afford those schools at the high school level, their income is not going to get them a discount at Vanderbilt.
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The upper class recruits dont benefit from the $ set up at least directly. It's the families that make under 200k they go play baseball for virtually nothing at Vandy.
 
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#41
#41
Most of Vandy's success has been because of Tennessee players. Price, Gray, Weil, Reynolds, Pfifer ect. On the current roster Raby, Grisanti, Reynolds, Sheffield, Murfee, and Stone are all TN kids that contribute. The talent coming out of this state is at all time high. I can not remember a time when TN has had this many players in the majors. In Nashville, 2 Little league programs have sent teams to the WS.

I know it is easy to scapegoat Vandy but explain how both Mississippi Schools have been successful? UT has had multiple national top 20 recruiting classes under Serrano but has yet to finish higher than 11th in the SEC.
 
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#42
#42
I don't know that I'd say most. Our last four first round draft picks were all out-of-staters.

Having said that, Price and Gray were instrumental in starting the pipeline of pitching talent, and middle Tennessee has exploded in growth population wise. That doesn't show signs of slowing down soon.

South Carolina is another example of a state school that has to fight with another school over in-state prospects, and they seem to do well.
 
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#43
#43
jp1 said:
A lot of truth in the last paragraph that the OP is apparently ignoring. Kids go to Vandy for reasons other than their coach. It's not a level playing field. We must recruit the state better, having said that Farragut kids are not the problem. Not even close.
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There is no such thing as a preferred walk on in baseball anymore. The NCAA mandates a 35 member set roster size, regardless of how you split up scholarship money.

Vandy had two kids on its roster this past fall who were walk ons, and once the roster was declared they were no longer allowed to practice with the team.

This is actually a positive for Tennessee, because in the past Georgia and LSU would stack their rosters with walk ons from instate who would have been scholarship players elsewhere.
 
#44
#44
Diamond Dore said:
I don't know that I'd say most. Our last four first round draft picks were all out-of-staters.

Having said that, Price and Gray were instrumental in starting the pipeline of pitching talent, and middle Tennessee has exploded in growth population wise. That doesn't show signs of slowing down soon.

South Carolina is another example of a state school that has to fight with another school over in-state prospects, and they seem to do well.
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Bryan Reynolds is a sure fire 1st rounder he's from Brentwood.
FYI: There are very few college programs with solely in state guys. Florida's best player is from Minnesota. Miss St has tons of out of state guys (6 from TN). UT has hope scholarship lottery money for in state kids which MS, LA, MO. TX and AL schools do not.
 
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#45
#45
Mike Rapp said:
There is no such thing as a preferred walk on in baseball anymore. The NCAA mandates a 35 member set roster size, regardless of how you split up scholarship money.

Vandy had two kids on its roster this past fall who were walk ons, and once the roster was declared they were no longer allowed to practice with the team.

This is actually a positive for Tennessee, because in the past Georgia and LSU would stack their rosters with walk ons from instate who would have been scholarship players elsewhere.
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Sorry, this is not correct. Preferred walk ons are on every roster in D1. The reason is that no more than 27 players can receive athletic scholarship money in baseball. The remaining 8 that are on the roster are preferred walk ons or some just walk ons. They are on the roster, treated the same as the scholarship players (the ones dividing the 11.7), and are even under the same restrictions on transferring once they enroll in school. Kyle Serrano was one his first year, Eric Freeman, Alex Harper-Cook and five others on this year's roster.
 
#46
#46
Wrong thread title

Right thread title

"I think UT ought to recruit more out of state in baseball"

Jesus don't have nothing to do with it.
 
#47
#47
crossvilledore said:
Bryan Reynolds is a sure fire 1st rounder he's from Brentwood.
FYI: There are very few college programs with solely in state guys. Florida's best player is from Minnesota. Miss St has tons of out of state guys (6 from TN). UT has hope scholarship lottery money for in state kids which MS, LA, MO. TX and AL schools do not.
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That's true. We may have two first rounders from TN this year in Reynolds and Sheffield. I think in-state talent provides a great base for the Commodores, but Vandy is a national program at this point.
 
#49
#49
Mike Rapp said:
There is no such thing as a preferred walk on in baseball anymore. The NCAA mandates a 35 member set roster size, regardless of how you split up scholarship money.

Vandy had two kids on its roster this past fall who were walk ons, and once the roster was declared they were no longer allowed to practice with the team.

This is actually a positive for Tennessee, because in the past Georgia and LSU would stack their rosters with walk ons from instate who would have been scholarship players elsewhere.
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Sooooo much comedy in this post


You are exactly correct. There is no such thing as a walk on at vandy. That's because their money is endless


Everyone else has 27 scholarship guys and 8 true walk ons
 
#50
#50
There is a preferred walk on status at that person is promised a roster spot, not on 27/28 person traveling squad. I understood that at least 24 people on the team had to have some baseball scholarship.
 
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