A "come to Jesus" moment

#51
#51
buvol said:
There is a preferred walk on status at that person is promised a roster spot, not on 27/28 person traveling squad. I understood that at least 24 people on the team had to have some baseball scholarship.
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Nope, 27 share the 11.7 and 8 must be "preferred walk on /walk on". Nothing to do with travel squad. In the states with lottery money...like TN and GA, "preferred walk ons" are basically the smart kids that can get their $$ thru academics vs having to share the 11.7 athletic $$.

A nice little benefit to the Hope Scholarship and why grades are important for HS baseball prospects.
 
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#53
#53
BruinVol said:
Good read

Disappointed CDS wouldn't participate on some way


@AdamSparks: When did @VandyBaseball rise & Tennessee slide, & why? Look back at how the programs swapped https://t.co/si0OyeJA2D https://t.co/7uS6T8zwHj
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Not really sure anyone working for UT will do anything for the Tennessean and ain't no reason to poke the bear a day or two before the game...

In fact all Corbin said was this:

“It’s not fair for me to speak to other programs. I wouldn’t do that, nor would I say (UT) has struggled,” Corbin said. “It’s like politics — stay the hell away from it.”
 
#54
#54
vol66 said:
Not really sure anyone working for UT will do anything for the Tennessean and ain't no reason to poke the bear a day or two before the game...

In fact all Corbin said was this:

“It’s not fair for me to speak to other programs. I wouldn’t do that, nor would I say (UT) has struggled,” Corbin said. “It’s like politics — stay the hell away from it.”
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He did comment on the need based aid stuff which I haven't seen him admit before

I agree my op was overstated probably about CDS not commenting
 
#55
#55
BruinVol said:
He did comment on the need based aid stuff which I haven't seen him admit before

I agree my op was overstated probably about CDS not commenting
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That's true...I liked the football reference...that doesn't seem to work in our favor.
 
#56
#56
BruinVol said:
He did comment on the need based aid stuff which I haven't seen him admit before

I agree my op was overstated probably about CDS not commenting
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He also dismissed what you claim which is everyone gets a free ride.
“But at the same time, this school still costs about $62,000 (per year) to attend, and you still have kids paying large sums of money.
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Even if they cut the cost in half it's still 31K
 
#58
#58
BruinVol said:
Lol

Lots of room is those quotes.

The only quote that really matters is his admittance of the advantage he is using .
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Has that stopped Florida, USC, LSU, Arkansas ect..?

While complaining about some perceived advantage:
note in another thread on here about SEC baseball spending. That of the top 10 on that list only Auburn has not been to the CWS in the last decade, and the top three have all dogpiled in Omaha.

UT has lottery monies that others don't. Why not utilize that?
 
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#59
#59
I'm back....the people complaining about the "Jesus" think need to take some sort of class. It's a figure of speech people. I did not talk to Jesus about baseball. (I save those conversations for hockey-the man does love him some hockey-go figure)

Anyway, These suburban and somewhat entitled kids that over reach their athletic talent with endless amounts of travel ball, baseball academies, and scouting camps are fragile. Too many of these kids (including Farragut) have had TJS surgery or get it while at college or minors very early.

Add into this that many of these guys are completely fried and burned out on the sport that is no longer fun. Suburban Memphis kids are in the same boat. Kids like Senzel that continue to LOVE the sport are rare.

For whatever reasons I have truly never understood, this burnout is not as prevalent in So Florida and California. I don't know if it's cultural but these poor kids leaving in Suburban hell in their McMansions have been spoon fed baseball to their obviously sick of it or worn out.

Tennessee is still winning the recruiting battles for a lot of these kids. The kids we sign with the Vols that aren't sick of the sport are signing pro contracts. Maybe the scouts do know the difference between a true talented prospect and a kid who peaked in high school and travel ball.

With Vanderbilt, Rice, Notre Dame, Stanford, Miami and other schools' advantage in doling out free money. Perhaps the Vols should start mining the minor leagues a bit more.

Be pickier on high school kids with worn out arms. The burned out-phenoms are not sitting in JUCO for 1-2 years. Their stuck up parents and travel ball coaches are not letting them do that. JUCO is perhaps where those who truly love the game and were overlooked because they did not play travel ball or played on the "wrong" travel ball teams are at. Perhaps they played at a tiny Single A high school in Oklahoma.

I think a team with several "Leno Ramirez" types would be ok.
 
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#60
#60
crossvilledore said:
Has that stopped Florida, USC, LSU, Arkansas ect..?


While complaining about some perceived advantage:
note in another thread on here about SEC baseball spending. That of the top 10 on that list only Auburn has not been to the CWS in the last decade, and the top three have all dogpiled in Omaha.
UT is the only SEC team to not make a regional in that time.
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Very very poor argument using those schools on your part

Florida Is loaded with in state talent. Arkansas is the only state even comparable in overall state talent to tenn and they draw from Texas and the Midwest a lot.
 
#61
#61
BruinVol said:
Very very poor argument using those schools on your part

Florida Is loaded with in state talent. Arkansas is the only state even comparable in overall state talent to tenn and they draw from Texas and the Midwest a lot.
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Mississippi then both Ole Miss and Miss St. have been to the CWS in the last three year.
 
#62
#62
crossvilledore said:
Mississippi then both SEC teams have been to the CWS in the last three year.
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And both miss schools have advantages in getting out of state tuition reduced as well with certain academics

Simply put nearly every school has advantages well beyond tenn. The only thing we have is the hope and it's only 3500$ for in state kids while most of them that we really need are going to Vandy for next to nothing

These are all reasons the program is at best the 12th best job in the league
 
#63
#63
BruinVol said:
And both miss schools have advantages in getting out of state tuition reduced as well with certain academics

Simply put nearly every school has advantages well beyond tenn. The only thing we have is the hope and it's only 3500$ for in state kids while most of them that we really need are going to Vandy for next to nothing

These are all reasons the program is at best the 12th best job in the league
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:cray:
 
#64
#64
BruinVol said:
And both miss schools have advantages in getting out of state tuition reduced as well with certain academics

Simply put nearly every school has advantages well beyond tenn. The only thing we have is the hope and it's only 3500$ for in state kids while most of them that we really need are going to Vandy for next to nothing

These are all reasons the program is at best the 12th best job in the league
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Where would you rank Kentucky? Louisville is a top program yet UK has been successful.
UT has more history and better facilities than UK yet UK has been better for the last decade.

Do you really think that baseball players are not getting reduced tuition or helpful financing at UT. Then you proclaim that every player at Vandy is getting a free ride and Corbin is a blatant cheater? Change coaches and UT will be in the CWS in 5 years. UT has had several top 25 classes under Serrano yet has produced nothing. Corbin had nothing when he started at Vandy and had a powerhouse in 5 years.


Even your own fans are tired of this whining. If you were Corbin what would you do let Stone, Reynolds, ect go to UT? That will happen when Butch Jones lets Hurd, Malone, ect transfer to Vandy. Are you willing to share all the football and basketball talent with Vandy?
 
#65
#65
crossvilledore said:
Where would you rank Kentucky? Louisville is a top program yet UK has been successful.
UT has more history and better facilities than UK yet UK has been better for the last decade.

Do you really think that baseball players are not getting reduced tuition or helpful financing at UT. Then you proclaim that every player at Vandy is getting a free ride and Corbin is a blatant cheater? Change coaches and UT will be in the CWS in 5 years. UT has had several top 25 classes under Serrano yet has produced nothing. Corbin had nothing when he started at Vandy and had a powerhouse in 5 years.


Even your own fans are tired of this whining. If you were Corbin what would you do let Stone, Reynolds, ect go to UT? That will happen when Butch Jones lets Hurd, Malone, ect transfer to Vandy. Are you willing to share all the football and basketball talent with Vandy?
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I don't blame Corbin at all for using the need based aid for an advantage

I blame him for real success taking so long with unlimited recruiting Potenial.


I think Kentucky/tenn/mizzu are all at the bottom of the league in terms of jobs.

I blame the NCAA for allowing the disparity in $

And no I don't think tenn has any "advantages" in reducing cost other than the hope which is irrelevant IMO

And no I don't think changing coaches means anything is a certainly because I think the deck is stacked
 
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#66
#66
BruinVol said:
I don't blame Corbin at all for using the need based aid for an advantage

I blame him for real success taking so long with unlimited recruiting Potenial.
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Opportunity Vanderbilt started in 2009. Price, Minor, Alvarez and Flaherty had already been through. Sonny Gray had already signed.

With regard to real success taking so long, ask Florida, Florida State or Miss. State how elusive a baseball title can be. It's a very different sport than football or basketball. The most talented team doesn't always win.

One could easily make the case that the 2013 and 2015 Vandy teams were "better" on paper than the 2014 that won it all in Omaha.

Vandy isn't the only roadblock standing in UT's way. There are enough kids to have two successful programs in this state. South Carolina and Clemson do it, and so do Ole Miss/MSU. The SEC is going to send multiple teams to the NCAAs every year.

Tennessee has to get into the second tier and then build off of that. Once they start going to regionals every year and occasionally hosting, then they can start competing with the top tier. The problem is there are at least a half dozen SEC schools right now that are very committed to baseball, and more like Alabama are making financial commitments to get there.
 
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#67
#67
fryeguy93 said:
I'm back....the people complaining about the "Jesus" think need to take some sort of class. It's a figure of speech people. I did not talk to Jesus about baseball. (I save those conversations for hockey-the man does love him some hockey-go figure)

Anyway, These suburban and somewhat entitled kids that over reach their athletic talent with endless amounts of travel ball, baseball academies, and scouting camps are fragile. Too many of these kids (including Farragut) have had TJS surgery or get it while at college or minors very early.

Add into this that many of these guys are completely fried and burned out on the sport that is no longer fun. Suburban Memphis kids are in the same boat. Kids like Senzel that continue to LOVE the sport are rare.

For whatever reasons I have truly never understood, this burnout is not as prevalent in So Florida and California. I don't know if it's cultural but these poor kids leaving in Suburban hell in their McMansions have been spoon fed baseball to their obviously sick of it or worn out.

Tennessee is still winning the recruiting battles for a lot of these kids. The kids we sign with the Vols that aren't sick of the sport are signing pro contracts. Maybe the scouts do know the difference between a true talented prospect and a kid who peaked in high school and travel ball.

With Vanderbilt, Rice, Notre Dame, Stanford, Miami and other schools' advantage in doling out free money. Perhaps the Vols should start mining the minor leagues a bit more.

Be pickier on high school kids with worn out arms. The burned out-phenoms are not sitting in JUCO for 1-2 years. Their stuck up parents and travel ball coaches are not letting them do that. JUCO is perhaps where those who truly love the game and were overlooked because they did not play travel ball or played on the "wrong" travel ball teams are at. Perhaps they played at a tiny Single A high school in Oklahoma.

I think a team with several "Leno Ramirez" types would be ok.
Click to expand...

Zack Cozart, Logan Forsythe, Aaron Fultz, Phil Irwin, Paul Maholm, Drew Pomerantz, George Sherill are all recent players out of suburban Shelby County who went to college and either currently play or have played in the majors. This doesn't include those like Matt Cain and Stuart Pomeranz who skipped college, and we know more guys are going to college now to develop.

This doesn't even include our own Jordan Rodgers. It isn't easy to get these type guys because most go to Ole Miss or MSU because of location and strength of program. But I have wondered why we didn't go after more because the baseball is good. I am from suburban Shelby County, and I know people criticize the area, but there are many Vol fans and UT people in the area. Not saying it's the answer because it's not. But I have wondered this since the Delmonico days.
 
#68
#68
crossvilledore said:
Where would you rank Kentucky? Louisville is a top program yet UK has been successful.
UT has more history and better facilities than UK yet UK has been better for the last decade.

Do you really think that baseball players are not getting reduced tuition or helpful financing at UT. Then you proclaim that every player at Vandy is getting a free ride and Corbin is a blatant cheater? Change coaches and UT will be in the CWS in 5 years. UT has had several top 25 classes under Serrano yet has produced nothing. Corbin had nothing when he started at Vandy and had a powerhouse in 5 years.


Even your own fans are tired of this whining. If you were Corbin what would you do let Stone, Reynolds, ect go to UT? That will happen when Butch Jones lets Hurd, Malone, ect transfer to Vandy. Are you willing to share all the football and basketball talent with Vandy?
Click to expand...

Serrano, just like Corbin, has recruited talent that never made it to campus. I don't follow it enough to know if those recruiting classes are adjusted after guys sign pro deals or not. But baseball is a different animal because you can kill it in recruiting and not end up with your talent. You either have to get an assurance that a guy will play in college or recruit good players who won't go pro.
 
#69
#69
BruinVol said:
I don't blame Corbin at all for using the need based aid for an advantage

I blame him for real success taking so long with unlimited recruiting Potenial.


I think Kentucky/tenn/mizzu are all at the bottom of the league in terms of jobs.

I blame the NCAA for allowing the disparity in $

And no I don't think tenn has any "advantages" in reducing cost other than the hope which is irrelevant IMO

And no I don't think changing coaches means anything is a certainly because I think the deck is stacked
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Outside of 1951 when teams played like 15 games and the entire tourney was the CWS basically. Both programs have never really had much success until the 1990's anyways don't pretend like UT was a top 10 all time program until Corbin started at Vandy.

What do you consider "real" success? Had they lost to UVA in 2014 would you still consider them a failure?

Without the NC, Under Corbin Vandy has had 3 SEC titles, 10 straight regionals, 6 supers, and 3 CWS (2 finals)? Along with shattering a SEC win record in 2013 by going an unbelievable 26-3. Yeah N. Championships are success but they are awful freaking hard. I can tell you are a knowledgeable baseball fan that knows talent is only part of it. FSU is a top 5 all time wins program and has never hoisted the trophy. Miss. St. has not either and they are easily a top 5 SEC program all time.

UT has huge advantages on most teams in the SEC including Vandy. They have an unlimited budget, a beautiful ballpark (which I am visiting this weekend), great fans support (Vol66, yourself, freyguy and others), the exposure of the SEC. This could easily be a top 25 job nationally.
As far as costs go, the Hope coupled with a partial athletic, plus pell grants, plus student loans. And any athlete gets free housing and meals ect. Your acting as if every single player on the Vols roster is paying full tuition while Vandy is giving free rides to everyone Dansby Swanson took out loans, I'm pretty sure he was able to pay them off. Zander Weil's dad was a freaking professor at MTSU, Reynolds is from Brentwood.

What would happen to Vandy if the NCAA went to 30 full scholarships? They are already a national powerhouse under Corbin, do you think kids are going to instantly not want to play for him given his track record at developing talent? Unlike football and basketball playing NCAA baseball is a choice kids can sign pro contracts at 18. So kids choose their education instead of it basically being a minor league system for the pro's.


FYI: to everyone on here. I was drunk during some of my original posts on here a couple of years ago. So forgive me for being such a jackhole in the past
 
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#70
#70
A lot to cover there.

Real success is going to Omaha IMO

It took Corbin way to long to get there. Vastly underachieved before finally breaking thru
 
#71
#71
BruinVol said:
A lot to cover there.

Real success is going to Omaha IMO

It took Corbin way to long to get there. Vastly underachieved before finally breaking thru
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2007 was their only real disappointing year as a national seed. Most of his teams overachieved until they broke through in 2011. Plus they had some very hard draws in the Supers @Texas, @FSU, then Oregon St., Louisville.

For comparison UT played a road super at East Carolina (which has never been to a CWS) and Ga Tech. (only 2 CWS at that time). Neither of those programs measures up to the ones Vandy faced. Maybe Tech and Louisville are equal, but certainly not on the level with FSU or Texas.
 
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#73
#73
crossvilledore said:
What would happen to Vandy if the NCAA went to 30 full scholarships? They are already a national powerhouse under Corbin, do you think kids are going to instantly not want to play for him given his track record at developing talent?
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The answer to this is easy. Vandy would actually have to recruit to get the elite players. They lose virtually no recruiting battles to anyone now. SEC coaches have said when they get involved with a recruit they have no shot. If everyone got fulls that would change to some degree. They would still get their fair share but it would be a real test


If the college baseball world wants to ignore this huge advantage being used they should look no further than the past 2 years.

The last 2 teams standing both years. Vandy and Virginia just happen to be 2 of the few schools meeting the full cost of attendance needs of their students. Far far far from a coincidence.
 
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#74
#74
BruinVol said:
The answer to this is easy. Vandy would actually have to recruit to get the elite players. They lose virtually no recruiting battles to anyone now. SEC coaches have said when they get involved with a recruit they have no shot. If everyone got fulls that would change to some degree. They would still get their fair share but it would be a real test


If the college baseball world wants to ignore this huge advantage being used they should look no further than the past 2 years.

The last 2 teams standing both years. Vandy and Virginia just happen to be 2 of the few schools meeting the full cost of attendance needs of their students. Far far far from a coincidence.
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behind close doors I would argue almost all coaches competing against the two schools mentioned above realize they have virtually no shot for a recruit if VU and UVA are recruiting them unless the recruit is a legacy or hometown hero. Publicly they all take the high road as they should and say the "politically correct" verbiage and the NCAA will never change the system anytime soon IMO.

Here is a thought to ponder, if 5 years ago CDS was hired by Vanderbilt and Corbin was hired by Tennessee. Has anything changed? Possibly if any and not by much if at all......

I still place more fault with the administration than any one coach or player. Just my $.02
 
#75
#75
Baseball needs 20 -24 full scholarhips. I am not blaming the lack of scholarships on UT's success, but it is the right thing to do for the players. It is expensive for an out of state player at UT. A great baseball scholarship is 50%, most are closer to 33%. It does adjust to whether it is in-state or out of state. However, even with 50% a baseball player's family will in reality be responsible for all of the costs of room and board and some tuition. It is a great honor to play at UT, but it is expensive. I think it makes a big difference if people are on full rides. It certainly will make them think twice deciding whether to go to school or go pro. UT has to use the "lottery" money to keep in state kids and use most of the other money on out of state kids or the big prospects. Football has 80 and basketball has around 13 full scholarships.
 
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