A Different Question

#26
#26
I'm not necessarily against a coaching change either but it often smacks of the back-up QB syndrome.

It's a simple risk/reward issue - how much improvement do you get by making the change? Are 2, four-year stints of different but equally successful coaches to Fulmer worth the risk?
 
#28
#28
volinbham said:
I'm not necessarily against a coaching change either but it often smacks of the back-up QB syndrome.

It's a simple risk/reward issue - how much improvement do you get by making the change? Are 2, four-year stints of different but equally successful coaches to Fulmer worth the risk?
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If the coaches are "equally successful," who cares, other than the Fulmerites who have their lips welded to TCHFCATUTK's posterior?
 
#29
#29
hatvol96 said:
If the coaches are "equally successful," who cares, other than the Fulmerites who have their lips welded to TCHFCATUTK's posterior?
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Probably several million $ in contract buy-outs, recruiting interruptions due to revolving door of coaches, reputation for running off coaches, etc.
 
#30
#30
Six years. The first three to get his guys at the positions he needs them at to run his system. Then the next three to win an SEC Championship.
 
#31
#31
therealUT said:
Six years. The first three to get his guys at the positions he needs them at to run his system. Then the next three to win an SEC Championship.
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If those are the standards we are going to use, we should drop to I-AA.
 
#32
#32
Yet if you keep more strict standards, e.g. 3 - 4 years then you likely revolve coaches and could easily go through several rotations before you win another.
 
#33
#33
volinbham said:
Probably several million $ in contract buy-outs, recruiting interruptions due to revolving door of coaches, reputation for running off coaches, etc.
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1. The donors will gladly pay to get rid of coaches they no longer see as useful.
2. Great programs recruit for themselves, coaches just add to it.
3. That reputation really hurt Ohio State, Oklahoma, and USC when they went looking for coaches, didn't it?
 
#34
#34
hatvol96 said:
If those are the standards we are going to use, we should drop to I-AA.
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If you changed coaches, you would have to give the new coach an opportunity to get his players in his system. I am setting that limit at 3 years, as opposed to 4. Then, you basically give the man 3 years to win an SEC Championship. I would say those are some pretty stringent conditions. I guess you and I disagree though.
 
#35
#35
volinbham said:
Yet if you keep more strict standards, e.g. 3 - 4 years then you likely revolve coaches and could easily go through several rotations before you win another.
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How long did it take Bob Stoops to win? Pete Carroll? Jim Tressell? Gene Stallings? Jimmy Johnson? Dennis Erickson? Butch Davis(and he had probation to deal with)?
 
#36
#36
If I thought Fulmer were going to be around for a while, then I'd be more concerned about it. Assuming he's got 5 more years at best, I don't see us getting to the top any faster by firing him and bringing in someone new unless we got very, very lucky.
 
#37
#37
hatvol96 said:
3. That reputation really hurt Ohio State, Oklahoma, and USC when they went looking for coaches, didn't it?
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What has Stoops done with his own talent?

Further, Tressel still has yet to win an out right Big Ten Championship with his own players...
 
#38
#38
volinbham said:
If I thought Fulmer were going to be around for a while, then I'd be more concerned about it. Assuming he's got 5 more years at best, I don't see us getting to the top any faster by firing him and bringing in someone new unless we got very, very lucky.
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No offense, but that's the most Polyanna thing I've ever read.
 
#39
#39
volinbham said:
If I thought Fulmer were going to be around for a while, then I'd be more concerned about it. Assuming he's got 5 more years at best, I don't see us getting to the top any faster by firing him and bringing in someone new unless we got very, very lucky.
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I don't think it would take luck after you pulled the trigger. If Butch Davis would go to UNC, you don't think he or someone of his stature would come here.
 
#40
#40
volinbham said:
If I thought Fulmer were going to be around for a while, then I'd be more concerned about it. Assuming he's got 5 more years at best, I don't see us getting to the top any faster by firing him and bringing in someone new unless we got very, very lucky.
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Yes, but imagine how bad it could get during those five years with a bitter, unpopular head coach who knows there are no contract extensions or raises forthcoming. We'll get five years of going through the motions with Fulmer. At least some fresh blood would excite some people.
 
#41
#41
hatvol96 said:
How long did it take Bob Stoops to win? Pete Carroll? Jim Tressell? Gene Stallings? Jimmy Johnson? Dennis Erickson? Butch Davis(and he had probation to deal with)?
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Seven coaches stretching over a period of 20+ years. Of those, 3 were at the same program. Stoops and Davis did the most with the least. Recruiting to USC and OSU is much different than recruiting to UT. Erickson walked into a goldmine.

The list of the "next great coach" that didn't have this type of success is much longer.
 
#43
#43
therealUT said:
What has Stoops done with his own talent?
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Won multiple conference championships and played for two National Titles. Also, the 2000 championship team was populated with a bunch of freshmen and sophomores that he recruited. The idea that John Blake left this great cache of talent is a myth. He left good players, nothing more. If Stoops doesn't recruit Josh Huepel to play QB, the '00 team is a Cotton Bowl team at best.
 
#45
#45
volinbham said:
Seven coaches stretching over a period of 20+ years. Of those, 3 were at the same program. Stoops and Davis did the most with the least. Recruiting to USC and OSU is much different than recruiting to UT. Erickson walked into a goldmine.

The list of the "next great coach" that didn't have this type of success is much longer.
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You're right. Let's just let TCHFCATUTK stay until he's ready to leave. That should get us the same results it's getting Florida State right now. We shouldn't have faith in administrators paid to hire coaches. Let's just ride it out until our game against Kentucky becomes an annual battle for the coveted Music City Bowl bid.
 
#46
#46
hatvol96 said:
You're right. Let's just let TCHFCATUTK stay until he's ready to leave. That should get us the same results it's getting Florida State right now. We shouldn't have faith in administrators paid to hire coaches. Let's just ride it out until our game against Kentucky becomes an annual battle for the coveted Music City Bowl bid.
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Resorting to the old strawman again.

Assuming we are talking about a maximum of five more years:

If we were to continue winning 9-11 games for the next several years, the chances that we significantly improve from there by firing/hiring are questionable.

If we slip to consistent 8 or less win seasons then the sooner he's gone the better.
 
#47
#47
hatvol96 said:
You're right. Let's just let TCHFCATUTK stay until he's ready to leave. That should get us the same results it's getting Florida State right now. We shouldn't have faith in administrators paid to hire coaches. Let's just ride it out until our game against Kentucky becomes an annual battle for the coveted Music City Bowl bid.
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I disagreed with people like you prior to this season. But I have definitely changed my mind. The only real improvement on this team compared to last year's is Ainge and the receivers. Very disappointing. It is a fact that our kick return team sucks, I am sure eveyone can agree on this. If you are not going to fix this, can you at least coach the receiver to kneel down if the ball is kicked into the end zone? Very simple concept that our coaching staff seems to have great difficulty with. How can I trust them to out coach anyone?
 
#48
#48
So for all these posters opposed to making a coaching change, I have to ask if it was wrong to fire Johnny Majors and bring a total unknown like Phil Fulmer? Which side of the fence did you sit on 14 years ago? Do you think it was worthwhile to make a change then?

As for comparing UT's past basketball coaching issues with possible future football issues, apples and oranges. Resources, expectations, and a host of other differences make that comparison pretty useless.
 
#49
#49
volinbham said:
Resorting to the old strawman again.

Assuming we are talking about a maximum of five more years:

If we were to continue winning 9-11 games for the next several years, the chances that we significantly improve from there by firing/hiring are questionable.

If we slip to consistent 8 or less win seasons then the sooner he's gone the better.
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What does winning 9 games mean now? We're going to do that this year without beating a single quality opponent. Win 9 games a year for five years and we'll have an even Baker's Dozen of years without a title.
 
#50
#50
hatvol96 said:
2. Great programs recruit for themselves, coaches just add to it.
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So, you would say that our problems on the field the past two Saturdays are the results of poor field coaching? Or being outmanned? If programs recruit for themselves, then why is it Fulmer's fault that we are outmanned? Also, why does it matter if Rodney Gardner is at UGA?

I feel that our lack of talent on the OL (because I think we are loaded with talent in the "skill" positions), comes from the running schemes that Sander's employed and the guys that he focused on to run his offense. So, I feel that our lack of talent in the trenches is a direct result of our coaching staff.

However, if you state that programs recruit for themselves, then UT is just set on always being a good SEC team, but not dominant...
 
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