A recap for those not keeping score.

#76
#76
myrobbins7 said:
I agree..I would be more than willing to help the ones that paid into the system, but what do we do about the illegal aliens that are costing us tax payers just a massive amount of $$$?
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I'm against giving them anything if they're illegal. Maybe Huckabee's fair tax plan would be good so that illegals can pony up when they go shopping.
 
#78
#78
the fact is we can't afford it anymore. so unless you want your children taxed into poverty why they are trying to build their own lives just because you are too stupid to save for retirement i suggest you rethink your positions.
 
#79
#79
droski said:
bs. you didn't pay into it. it was a tax plain and simple. it has always been a tax. just like our income taxes go to welfare and other ridiculous programs. you don't deserve it anymore than some guy paying taxes for 32 years who goes on unemployment.
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A tax that came with a promise of being returned. I am not allowed to opt out of the plan. I intend to hold the government to it's promise.
 
#80
#80
SavageOrangeJug said:
A tax that came with a promise of being returned. I am not allowed to opt out of the plan. I intend to hold the government to it's promise.
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the gov't promises lots of things they never deliver. you aren't owed anything by the govt except a military and a court system. and you aren't allowed to opt out of any taxes. once again we can't afford it. so either tax the crap out of the young and be selfish or take the hit.
 
#81
#81
droski said:
the fact is we can't afford it anymore. so unless you want your children taxed into poverty why they are trying to build their own lives just because you are too stupid to save for retirement i suggest you rethink your positions.
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I don't give a damn if I'm worth $100 million at retirement. I'll apply for my SS.

What about someone who has saved, but was wiped out by catastrophe? Should they be told, "fend for yourself".
 
#84
#84
droski said:
the fact is we can't afford it anymore. so unless you want your children taxed into poverty why they are trying to build their own lives just because you are too stupid to save for retirement i suggest you rethink your positions.
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I think there are several arguments going on here. I agree with your post here. And the program should be abolished.
 
#85
#85
allvol123 said:
No argument there. To say someone does not deserve the money they have paid into SS is absurd.
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so because a bunch of idiots thought the gov't would bail them out if they didn't save we need to "honor" that and therefore bancrupt the future? WE CAN'T AFFORD TO PAY IT.
 
#86
#86
droski said:
so because a bunch of idiots thought the gov't would bail them out if they didn't save we need to "honor" that and therefore bancrupt the future? WE CAN'T AFFORD TO PAY IT.
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Idiots? I believe they were forced to pay it, correct? I don't care if they need or do not need it now, it should be paid back to them. Not about bailing them out.
 
#87
#87
and don't think if we keep SS going like it is that you wont get it all taxed back anyway. what i am suggesting is at least honest. if you don't think the day will come when anyone making over 50K a year in retirement will get their SS taxed to nothing you aren't paying attention.
 
#88
#88
allvol123 said:
Idiots? I believe they were forced to pay it, correct? I don't care if they need or do not need it now, it should be paid back to them. Not about bailing them out.
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once again. you are forced to pay many things in this country. why is this one different? just because it is under a seperate item on your paycheck that still doesn't make it not part of your income tax. it never went into a "fund." it's been a tax from day 1.
 
#89
#89
droski said:
once again. you are forced to pay many things in this country. why is this one different? just because it is under a diffent item on your paycheck that still doesn't make it part of your income tax.
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Not different in the sense that I believe it is stealing like most of the rest. Is different in the sense it was designed to come back to you. I know nothing about SS, so correct me if it was not set up that way.

But I can see your point droski. I mean heck, who wouldn't get behind the idea of a bunch of government officials taking your money with the idea of giving it back years later and then completely going back on the deal. Great stance dude.
 
#90
#90
allvol123 said:
Not different in the sense that I believe it is stealing like most of the rest. Is different in the sense it was designed to come back to you. I know nothing about SS, so correct me if it was not set up that way.

But I can see your point droski. I mean heck, who wouldn't get behind the idea of a bunch of government officials taking your money with the idea of giving it back years later and then completely going back on the deal. Great stance dude.
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it was never set up as a retirement plan. it was set up as a welfare plan. things change. the old are no longer in poverty to the same degree.

Social Security (United States) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

A limited form of the Social Security program began as a measure to implement "social insurance" during the Great Depression of the 1930s, when poverty rates among senior citizens exceeded 50%.[8]

The Social Security Act was drafted by President Roosevelt's committee on economic security, under Edwin Witte, and passed by Congress as part of the New Deal. The act was an attempt to limit what were seen as dangers in the modern American life, including old age, poverty, unemployment, and the burdens of widows and fatherless children. By passing this act, President Roosevelt became the first president to advocate the protection of the elderly.

Provisions of the Act
The Act is formally cited as the Social Security Act, ch. 531, 49 Stat. 620, now codified as 42 U.S.C. ch.7. The Act provided benefits to retirees and the unemployed, and a lump-sum benefit at death. Payments to current retirees were (and continue to be) financed by a payroll tax on current workers' wages, half directly as a payroll tax and half paid by the employer. The act also allocated money to states to provide assistance to aged individuals (Title I), for unemployment insurance (Titles III), Aid to Families with Dependent Children (Title IV), Maternal and Child Welfare (Title V), public health services (Title VI), and the blind (Title X).[11]

does this sound to you like a retirement plan or welfare? just the fact this was created by the biggest socialist in history should be enough for many of you i'd hope.
 
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#91
#91
Now those who grew up in the 60s may have incorrectly thought of it as a retirement plan, but personally i was raised that i shouldn't have to rely on the government for anything.
 
#92
#92
You did not highlight such items as the "lump-sum" at death. So how is this calculated? Is it set up to pay back exactly what a person paid into it? Or more? Or less?
 
#93
#93
statistically people currently on social security for over 20 years on average have been paid far more than they paid in even if indexed by inflation. it was a payout to the poor from the get go. much like obamamania.
 
#94
#94
droski said:
statistically people currently on social security for over 20 years on average have been paid far more than they paid in even if indexed by inflation. it was a payout to the poor from the get go. much like obamamania.
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See, you're just being a jerk now.

Seriously, reading on wiki(not sure of the reliability), I see where the first recipient paid about $40 total over a 3 year period and received $22,000 from it by the time she died. Great investment!
 
#95
#95
allvol123 said:
See, you're just being a jerk now.

Seriously, reading on wiki(not sure of the reliability), I see where the first recipient paid about $40 total over a 3 year period and received $22,000 from it by the time she died. Great investment!
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why i that being a jerk? what's the difference between social security and the social programs obama wants us to implement? the things obama are talking about may very well 50 years from now be things that old farts like me claimed the govt promised us (Just like social security now).
 
#96
#96
droski said:
why i that being a jerk? what's the difference between social security and the social programs obama wants us to implement? the things obama are talking about may very well 50 years from now be things that old farts like me claimed the govt promised us (Just like social security now).
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It was a joke.

Don't think that I agree with SS. I am just for people receiving back what they paid into it. If it ended tomorrow and no one got another cent from it, I could live with that too. Tough pill to swallow, but it needs to be done at some point. But I'd rather see people get what they paid for it. We are signing trillion dollar spending bills, surely we could do this.
 
#97
#97
droski said:
bs. you didn't pay into it. it was a tax plain and simple. it has always been a tax. just like our income taxes go to welfare and other ridiculous programs. you don't deserve it anymore than some guy paying taxes for 32 years who goes on unemployment.
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No, actually it was called; 'social security insurance' for about the first fifty years and then one day it morphed into 'social security tax' with no fanfare.
 
#99
#99
droski said:
Now those who grew up in the 60s may have incorrectly thought of it as a retirement plan, but personally i was raised that i shouldn't have to rely on the government for anything.
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So did I but I was forced to pay into SS with the promise I would be paid back.

And we didn't incorrectly think it was a retirement plan, we were told as a matter of fact that it was a government retirement plan and we had no choice but to pay into it.

Don't anyone get the idea that it will really provide enough to live on but it is a subsidy that has been promised.

FWIW, a few years ago people under the age of 35 were polled and 75% didn't think they would get anything back from SS.
 
#100
#100
T-TownVol said:
do do do do, do do do do
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What kind of do do??

Do do in your diaper?

I don't know how you mean by that but it isn't twilight zone, ask anyone who had a pay check stub prior to say about 1980 and there were two deductions;

1. payroll tax
2. social security insurance

that all changed one day, I never noticed any publicity or public explanation although there may have been one, but then suddenly the two deductions were;

1. payroll tax
2. social security tax

What FDR promised is nothing like what we have today.

I'll get back to you on when and what changes were made, just about every single promise ever made about social security has been broken over the years and before long more will have to be paid out than what is collected, this has been a ponzi scheme that makes madoff look like a kid stealing a pencil in kindergarten.
 
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