Abortion debate (split from bball forum)

[droski]

so we both agree with abortion as a right but now just disagree on the limits

yes. i don't get this argument

 

[therealUT]

And no, God does not murder anyone.

Which god would you be talking about?

Zeus and Poseidon certainly murdered people.

Krishna and Shiva murdered people.

Yahweh murdered people.

Allah murdered people.

Odin murdered people.

 

[droski]

i imagine noah's flood killed a couple of people.

 

[therealUT]

i imagine noah's flood killed a couple of people.

Probably some pregnant women washed away in that deluge as well.

 

[utvolpj]

so Sodom and Gomorrah were unpopulated cities?

 

[IPorange]

i imagine noah's flood killed a couple of people.

Including unborn children, children, and women.

 

[BlueHalo]

Anyone that believes Noah's story actually happened needs their heads examined anyway.

 

[droski]

Anyone that believes Noah's story actually happened needs their heads examined anyway.

but i guess jesus turning water into wine is more believable?

 

[therealUT]

but i guess jesus turning water into wine is more believable?

If he threw enough grapes into it prior to walking on it, yes.

 

[Tenacious D]

the number of miscarriages that occur naturally tells me that God is not necessarily against abortion of certain types

People die - is he opposed to life?

Planes crash - is he against flight?

Can you clarify your point?
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[RikidyBones]

there are many other reasons for it. Responsible parents are presented with the choice often and choose not to bring the child into the world

I was merely giving an example. There are many reasons and the choice is a good thing. I sympathize with anyone who has to make a decision they don't want to make regarding it.
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[JZVOL]

Wait, so people who argue that God or the God of the Bible isn't real argue that there is no way the story of Noah is real and it's just a story to learn from, or a metaphor and then argue that your God kills people, just look in the Old Testament as proof.

Are both stories real or just metaphors or are we just supposed to pick and choose to fit various sides?

You can't have that both ways.

 

[timmy]

I'd rather someone get an abortion, than have a baby they can't afford and get a check from the government to raise the baby.

Telling people they can't get an abortion because you believe it is wrong in God's eye violates the Constitution. Not everyone believes, or wants to be part of your religion and you need to accept that.

 

[therealUT]

People die - is he opposed to life?

Planes crash - is he against flight?

Can you clarify your point?
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If god is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnibenevolent, then is death a bad thing?

If death is not a bad thing, then why is abortion inherently wrong?

To approach this issue from the religious angle, is to approach it with the baggage of a lot of unanswerable metaphysical and theological questions.

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
- Epicurus

This, by the way, is the argument that prompted Augustine to declare that "evil" is non-existent.

 

[BlueHalo]

JZ - you're lost bro.

We're saying:
A- if you believe these are more than metaphors than you're wrong. Proceed to step 1A.
B- if you believe these are nothing more than metaphors for lessons in life, stop here.

1A- Since you believe this is to be taken literal, why does (a) god allow these horrible things to happen, or even cause them himself. Seems like hypocrisy.

 

[VolsNSkinsFan]

I'd rather someone get an abortion, than have a baby they can't afford and get a check from the government to raise the baby.

ever heard of adoption?

You know that baby has a heart beat at 6 weeks

 

[rjd970]

People die - is he opposed to life?

He's obviously OK with death.

Planes crash - is he against flight?

Evidently under certain circumstances he is

Can you clarify your point?

Don't want to speak out of turn, but if one truly believes God has power over such things, then given the amount of natural miscarriages throughout the history of mankind, God would have to be the most prolific abortionists of all. He may or may not be against it, but he certainly let's it happen...or at the very least, doesn't stop it.
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see bold

 

[Tenacious D]

why would I disagree when the woman made no choice?

and your God "murders" more kids than all the doctors combined. It's not a fact you may like but it happens

His God?

I'd like to hear more of what you know "his" god to be, if you could elaborate.
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[rjd970]

ever heard of adoption?

You know that baby has a heart beat at 6 weeks

Some people in persistent vegetative states have heartbeats as well.

To me the question should be at what point does the fetus have the nuerological capability to process pain and have experiences. Not sure anybody really has the answer to that.

 

[RikidyBones]

I love how pro life people avoid my hypothetical situation. Usually they can't back themselves up in that circumstance.
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[Tenacious D]

see bold

There's a war in Afghanistan.
I'm doing nothing to stop it.
Am I a warmonger?
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[timmy]

ever heard of adoption?

You know that baby has a heart beat at 6 weeks

Okay.

Do you believe in capital punishment?

 

[Tenacious D]

Including unborn children, children, and women.

Which is why I never get the Noah's Ark motiff that Christians often use, ironically enough, in nurseries.
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[RikidyBones]

There's a war in Afghanistan.
I'm doing nothing to stop it.
Am I a warmonger?
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Lol yes. You're American. You're/ we are deemed such anyways. Might as well embrace it.
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[VolsNSkinsFan]

Okay.

Do you believe in capital punishment?

Nope
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