Abortion Rights

#301
#301
LouderVol said:
I don't think its that so much. Thats probably part of it but I think there is more. I think the polarization has gotten even worse.

In the same thread I have been called a Trump nut hugger for not buying the Russia story without any evidence, and also a liberal hack for offering any type of negative view on Trump.
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Fair point, but specifically here. VN hated Obama and saw him as every bit divisive as we see Trump. The country doesn't see it that way, but VN does.

I attacked Obama so much and that had to proven to (possibly senile) regulars here, just a year into Trump's tenure. It's just how it goes.
 
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#302
#302
n_huffhines said:
Fair point, but specifically here. VN hated Obama and saw him as every bit divisive as we see Trump. The country doesn't see it that way, but VN does.

I attacked Obama so much and that had to proven to (possibly senile) regulars here, just a year into Trump's tenure. It's just how it goes.
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Spoken like the true Obama apologist that you are.
 
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#303
#303
n_huffhines said:
Fair point, but specifically here. VN hated Obama and saw him as every bit divisive as we see Trump. The country doesn't see it that way, but VN does.

I attacked Obama so much and that had to proven to (possibly senile) regulars here, just a year into Trump's tenure. It's just how it goes.
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I think the country is a lot more "meh" about the whole thing than either side wants to believe.
 
#304
#304
BigO95 said:
So then, if Mary had an abortion 1 hour after conception would Jesus have been born? The implication is plain, she conceived the Child Jesus by the Holy Ghost.
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If we get away from inferences and implications, can you show me a bible verse that says life begins at conception.
 
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#305
#305
ClearwaterVol said:
If we get away from inferences and implications, can you show me a bible verse that says life begins at conception.
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can you show me a verse where life begins at birth?

I am betting the bible doesn't get into the specifics, again it isn't an encyclopedia/history/anatomy book.
 
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#306
#306
ClearwaterVol said:
If we get away from inferences and implications, can you show me a bible verse that says life begins at conception.
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Isaiah 7:14 (KJV)
14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
:hi:
 
#308
#308
I'm a Roman Catholic,
And have been since before I was born,
And the one thing they say about Catholics is:
They'll take you as soon as you're warm.

You don't have to be a six-footer.
You don't have to have a great brain.
You don't have to have any clothes on. You're
A Catholic the moment Dad came,

Because

Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.


watch
 
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#309
#309
ClearwaterVol said:
That does not say life begins at conception.
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That certainly as close as you are going to get and the implication is certainly there. You may spin it any way you want, but the implication is there. It's not complicated at all till you get somebody wanting to murder babies from their mothers womb and then all of a sudden it's a point of contention. It would probably never have been an issue till abortion came along. :hi:
and i'm not accusing you of being for abortion. The real issue is, they are trying to ease their conscience and justify their sin.
 
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#310
#310
hog88 said:
Very good question. Medically, hell I don't know. Personally I'm in the camp that if you're breathing you have a chance.
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It is like being the hopeless romantic of medicine.

I'm obviously not in the same camp. Hell, I don't even want to survive a severe stroke or spinal cord injury.
 
#312
#312
PKT_VOL said:
It is like being the hopeless romantic of medicine.

I'm obviously not in the same camp. Hell, I don't even want to survive a severe stroke or spinal cord injury.
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Never though of it that way.
 
#313
#313
n_huffhines said:
Honestly, what's mostly changed is the power shifted. It was all fun and games when the D's were on defense. R's/libertarians on this board were having a blast on the attack. Now D's/libertarians are on the attack, and there just aren't that many of us all having the fun. In politics, defense is exhausting for obvious reasons.
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Agreed.

I'd add that defense tends to elicit hypocrisy while offense tends to elicit principles. After a political change of power, it makes those who were previously on offense with their principles insufferable with their newfound hypocrisy.
 
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#314
#314
rjd970 said:
Medically the chance is zero if it is permanent vegetative state.

This is why I think the camps on both extremes are wrong. There is no person or life or anything at conception other than a clump of cells that may or may not produce a human. Similarly, there is clearly a human life during late term and abortion absolutely is murder.
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WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is not some arbitrary clump of cells. The first cell is a living organism which has the code to multiply and grow into the human shape, but from the moment of that first cell it is human and not anything else. Women have never just given birth to dogs, cats, or anything other than human babies and they ALL started as (1) one cell.
 
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#318
#318
alaVOL said:
WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is not some arbitrary clump of cells. The first cell is a living organism which has the code to multiply and grow into the human shape, but from the moment of that first cell it is human and not anything else. Women have never just given birth to dogs, cats, or anything other than human babies and they ALL started as (1) one cell.
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This fails the sufficiency test.

Figernails have the code to multiply and grow into the human shape and are human.
 
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#325
#325
rjd970 said:
Exactly. Nothing is guaranteed at conception. Late term the baby can survive outside the womb. There is a clear qualitative difference for the life/personhood test at each stage.
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Yep, at a certain point (which at what point seems to be the main question) it become an individual. A true conception it's still a lump of cells which are genetically unique but not differentiated into anything resembling an individual. If it was there wouldn't be such a thing as identical twins.

As a very conservative non-believer I don't have issues with abortion when it's effectively at the morning after pill stage, but I probably have problems with it much earlier in the pregnancy than most of the more liberal pro life posters here.

Survival outside the womb is a strange criteria in my opinion also, premmies require incredible medical intervention to survive outside the womb, and it's not like the infant that's born to term isn't incredibly dependent on caretakers for its every need. I just don't get why a baby in the womb has the stigma of being this burden that it's access to parental support can be revoked and once it's outside that access becomes a right when its burden is increased.
 
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