Abortion Rights

#327
#327
PKT_VOL said:
His wording, not mine.

One could easily word it better and make a stronger argument. However, I think the general idea still fails.
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100% agree, at least so far as the argument could be made much better with improved wording.
 
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#328
#328
n_huffhines said:
Honestly, what's mostly changed is the power shifted. It was all fun and games when the D's were on defense. R's/libertarians on this board were having a blast on the attack. Now D's/libertarians are on the attack, and there just aren't that many of us all having the fun. In politics, defense is exhausting for obvious reasons.
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Good point. Personally, I'm having fun.
 
#329
#329
rjd970 said:
Exactly. Nothing is guaranteed at conception. Late term the baby can survive outside the womb. There is a clear qualitative difference for the life/personhood test at each stage.
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nothing is guarenteed after birth either. And not just talking about as a baby. we can all keel over and die at any moment, but for some reason we deserve support now?

also the ability to care for oneself seems rather cold blooded if you want to consider the mentally handicapped. We are generally against euthanasia even if the same qualities of dependence are there.

There seem to be two real fuzzy lines. Where life/personhood is, and where dependence/self support kicks in. both seem quiet arbitrary and both sides depend on their reading of it to hold a stance.
 
#330
#330
A woman is in charge of her body that is clear. She should legally be able to get an abortion if she chooses. The same woman should be responsible for killing the fetus with her own hand instead of the clinal method used currently. Doctors and nurses should not be required to kill other peoples unborn fetuses and the clinical process that allows the mother to be basically uninvolved is wrong.
 
#331
#331
IPleadInsanity said:
A woman is in charge of her body that is clear. She should legally be able to get an abortion if she chooses. The same woman should be responsible for killing the fetus with her own hand instead of the clinal method used currently. Doctors and nurses should not be required to kill other peoples unborn fetuses and the clinical process that allows the mother to be basically uninvolved is wrong.
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This is one of the most uninformed asinine posts I have ever seen on this board.

Nobody "requires" doctors to provide abortions.
 
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#341
#341
MercyPercy said:
Scientific consensus is back on the menu as a sufficient argument?

Where did that evolution thread go?
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Bring it on.
I agree on all the facts regarding evolution.
There is no speculation about what happens when a sperm fertilizes an egg. Testable, obsrrvable, repeatable.
Hell, I've even fertilized one myself.
 
#342
#342
Wafflestomper said:
So sperm and eggs aren't alive, but combining them makes something that is?

Where'd the abiogenesis thread go?
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We really have to explain this to you??
The subject is when life BEGINS. Meaning a new human life. A sperm, apart from the egg will NEVER create a new human life. The 1st stage of human development is fertilization and the formation of the zygote. If you don't like it, take it up with the biology texts.
That is a biological fact. If you want to talk about whether that life has rights then that is a different subject.
 
#343
#343
Roustabout said:
Bring it on.
I agree on all the facts regarding evolution.
There is no speculation about what happens when a sperm fertilizes an egg. Testable, obsrrvable, repeatable.
Hell, I've even fertilized one myself.
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Just so we are clear, your position is a fertilized egg is equal to a person, in terms of being alive? The couple haven’t even lit their cigarettes yet and there is a third human in the room?
 
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#344
#344
Roustabout said:
We really have to explain this to you??
The subject is when life BEGINS. Meaning a new human life. A sperm, apart from the egg will NEVER create a new human life. The 1st stage of human development is fertilization and the formation of the zygote. If you don't like it, take it up with the biology texts.
That is a biological fact. If you want to talk about whether that life has rights then that is a different subject.
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The problem I had was calling it when life begins--that's clearly not true.

The egg is alive. The sperm is alive. Both carry unique human genetic information. The question is whether a fertilized egg is a person, or when exactly that happens.
 
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#345
#345
rjd970 said:
Just so we are clear, your position is a fertilized egg is equal to a person, in terms of being alive? The couple haven’t even lit their cigarettes yet and there is a third human in the room?
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How about you shut the **** up. I made a clear statement and like you have for years you hear what you want to and ignore what was clearly said. I should have blocked you years ago.
 
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#347
#347
Wafflestomper said:
The problem I had was calling it when life begins--that's clearly not true.

The egg is alive. The sperm is alive. Both carry unique human genetic information. The question is whether a fertilized egg is a person, or when exactly that happens.
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A life. A tree is living. A blood cell is living. Hell, an eye ball is living. You would never descibe a blood cell as a life.

Not true? Only if you're being obtuse.
The sperm carries genetic info unique to the male, the egg to the female. Upon fertilization, you have the the first stage of a new human life with all the genetic info it will ever have.

You don't like the implications so you're trying to muddy the water.
 
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#349
#349
Roustabout said:
A life.
Not true? Only if you're being obtuse.
The sperm carries genetic info unique to the male, the egg to the female. Upon fertilization, you have the the first stage of a new human life with all the genetic info it will ever have.

You don't like the implications so you're trying to muddy the water.
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The point that seems to elude you is that not all life is created equal. A fly is not the same thing as human life. A fertilized egg is not the same as human life. A human in a vegetative state is not the same thing. When is the fetus conscious? When does it have thoughts, feelings, and emotions? Science hasn't answered these questions. When does it become sacred life (a soul, if you will)? The Bible/religion hasn't even answered this question.
 
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#350
#350
n_huffhines said:
The point that seems to elude you is that not all life is created equal. A fly is not the same thing as human life. A fertilized egg is not the same as human life. A human in a vegetative state is not the same thing. When is the fetus conscious? When does it have thoughts, feelings, and emotions? Science hasn't answered these questions. When does it become sacred life (a soul, if you will)? The Bible/religion hasn't even answered this question.
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Then I suggest you read what I said and stop doing the same stupid **** rdj just did. Here, let me quote what I said.

"That is a biological fact. If you want to talk about whether that life has rights then that is a different subject."

Do you know what 'different subject' means?
 
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