Abortion

#276
#276
therealUT said:
Legislating Biblical Morality goes directly against the statement "let the wicked be wicked".

If you want to live by theological principles, then live by theological principles; do not force others to live under your theocracy, though.
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so the first half of the verse means nothing, we should just go by the last few words and take them out of context
 
#277
#277
therealUT said:
Legislating Biblical Morality goes directly against the statement "let the wicked be wicked".

If you want to live by theological principles, then live by theological principles; do not force others to live under your theocracy, though.
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Law is opinion in regards to what should and shouldn't be.

We both as citizens of this country have direct influence on law and law makers. You decide what fits your ideas, I will do the same.
 
#280
#280
T-TownVol said:
so the first half of the verse means nothing, we should just go by the last few words and take them out of context
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1

Then the angel showed me the river of life-giving water, sparkling like crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb

2

down the middle of its street. On either side of the river grew the tree of life that produces fruit twelve times a year, once each month; the leaves of the trees serve as medicine for the nations.

3

Nothing accursed will be found there anymore. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and his servants will worship him.

4

They will look upon his face, and his name will be on their foreheads.

5

Night will be no more, nor will they need light from lamp or sun, for the Lord God shall give them light, and they shall reign forever and ever.

6

And he said to me, "These words are trustworthy and true, and the Lord, the God of prophetic spirits, sent his angel to show his servants what must happen soon."

7

"Behold, I am coming soon." Blessed is the one who keeps the prophetic message of this book.

8

It is I, John, who heard and saw these things, and when I heard and saw them I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed them to me.

9

But he said to me, "Don't! I am a fellow servant of yours and of your brothers the prophets and of those who keep the message of this book. Worship God."

10

Then he said to me, "Do not seal up the prophetic words of this book, for the appointed time is near.

11

Let the wicked still act wickedly, and the filthy still be filthy. The righteous must still do right, and the holy still be holy."

12

"Behold, I am coming soon. I bring with me the recompense I will give to each according to his deeds.

13

I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."

14

Blessed are they who wash their robes so as to have the right to the tree of life and enter the city through its gates.

15

Outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the unchaste, the murderers, the idol-worshipers, and all who love and practice deceit.

16

"I, Jesus, sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the root and offspring of David, the bright morning star."

17

The Spirit and the bride say, "Come." Let the hearer say, "Come." Let the one who thirsts come forward, and the one who wants it receive the gift of life-giving water.

18

I warn everyone who hears the prophetic words in this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book,

19

and if anyone takes away from the words in this prophetic book, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city described in this book.

20

The one who gives this testimony says, "Yes, I am coming soon." Amen! Come, Lord Jesus!

21

The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all.
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The entire chapter does nothing to change my opinion of the message: "let the wicked be wicked; God will sort it out later".
 
#281
#281
BeecherVol said:
Law is opinion in regards to what should and shouldn't be.

We both as citizens of this country have direct influence on law and law makers. You decide what fits your ideas, I will do the same.
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Law is coercion and compulsion; laws are rules or injunctions that must be obeyed.
 
#284
#284
I wouldn't want to force(or be part of) an abortion, but I also don't believe in pushing my views on any one else.

I think abortion would better as a state issue. If they want to allow abortion in their state so be it, and let the people of that state choice the time frame and the laws on how to inforce abortion.

I'm accountable for my own life and not others. Their life and choices are on them and not a reflection of me.
 
#285
#285
therealUT said:
The entire chapter does nothing to change my opinion of the message: "let the wicked be wicked; God will sort it out later".
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Since the entire point of the New Testament is to seek and to save the lost, then I would think that it would be apparent that this verse does not mean that we should ignore wicked people and just allow them to be wicked.

I also think you know that, you just like playing word games.

The whole point of not sealing up the prophecy is so that its words can change the wicked.

Now, I don't believe in forcing my religious beliefs on anyone. I do know however, that the book gives government the right to protect us from the wicked. The book does not give us the right to protect the wicked from themselves.
 
#286
#286
RespectTradition said:
Since the entire point of the New Testament is to seek and to save the lost, then I would think that it would be apparent that this verse does not mean that we should ignore wicked people and just allow them to be wicked.
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At no point in the Gospels does Jesus come close to alluding that individuals should be coerced into doing good; this means that the wicked should still be permitted to be wicked. Legislating morality by definition makes it impermissible to be immoral.

RespectTradition said:
I also think you know that, you just like playing word games.
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I like using words correctly.

RespectTradition said:
The whole point of not sealing up the prophecy is so that its words can change the wicked.

Now, I don't believe in forcing my religious beliefs on anyone. I do know however, that the book gives government the right to protect us from the wicked. The book does not give us the right to protect the wicked from themselves.
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I am curious as to how far you will stretch "protection from the wicked".
 
#287
#287
therealUT said:
At no point in the Gospels does Jesus come close to alluding that individuals should be coerced into doing good; this means that the wicked should still be permitted to be wicked. Legislating morality by definition makes it impermissible to be immoral.



I like using words correctly.



I am curious as to how far you will stretch "protection from the wicked".
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Preventing theft, violence, coercion and fraud.
 
#288
#288
volinbham said:
Personally, I don't see any religious connection for me. I understand that others tie it to religion but I see no reason it has to be.
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I'm in a similar boat. I'm religious, but I don't think my views on abortion come from my religion at all.

I think that late term abortion is wrong. At a certain point (and I'll admit I'm not exactly sure what that point is), I just don't think abortion is an acceptable option.
 
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#289
#289
tvolsfan said:
I'm in a similar boat. I'm religious, but I don't think my views on abortion come from my religion at all.

I think that late term abortion is wrong. At a certain point (and I'll admit I'm not exactly sure what that point is), I just don't think abortion is an acceptable option.
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It's simple really, you have to decide, for yourself, when the fetus becomes a life. However you come to that decision is up to you. You can use logical arguments, medical arguments or just flip a coin. Anything prior to the fetus magically having life makes an abortion okay, anything after that point is murder.

Not reposting, but you point you back to a previous post: http://www.volnation.com/forum/politics/144968-abortion-4.html#post5803580
 
#290
#290
therealUT said:
Do you think a fetus is a human? Yes

Do you think abortion is murder? Yes

If a 12 year old became pregnant after being raped by her step-father, would you be okay with her having an abortion? No
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Anyone who has an abortion is a murder and should be treated as such, STRUNG UP! Sick freaks.













:hi:





:gun:
 
#295
#295
Volst53 said:
I wouldn't want to force(or be part of) an abortion, but I also don't believe in pushing my views on any one else.

I think abortion would better as a state issue. If they want to allow abortion in their state so be it, and let the people of that state choice the time frame and the laws on how to inforce abortion.

I'm accountable for my own life and not others. Their life and choices are on them and not a reflection of me.
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States rights? What a concept. We should try that as a country.
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#296
#296
orangeslice13 said:
States rights? What a concept. We should try that as a country.
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States' Rights do not supersede Individual Rights. This is why the Federal Government can intercede against State Legislation in order to protect the Individual against the tyranny of the State.

If the Federal Government holds that a fetus is not human life (i.e., does not have personhood), then any statute which restricts the right of an individual to do with their body as they please is fair game for the Federal Government to attack and usurp.
 
#297
#297
therealUT said:
States' Rights do not supersede Individual Rights. This is why the Federal Government can intercede against State Legislation in order to protect the Individual against the tyranny of the State.

If the Federal Government holds that a fetus is not human life (i.e., does not have personhood), then any statute which restricts the right of an individual to do with their body as they please is fair game for the Federal Government to attack and usurp.
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Who will protect us from this Tyranny?
 
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#299
#299
utvolpj said:
zonetards prove that segregation works



so it's always tyranny? Can't think of a single good reason at all? Interesting
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Tyranny was his word. I found it interesting that he used it in relation to states rights and then said the federal gov should attack those who think abortion should be illegal.

If I knew you better I might say try to keep up" but I don't so I will not.
 
#300
#300
orangeslice13 said:
Tyranny was his word. I found it interesting that he used it in relation to states rights and then said the federal gov should attack those who think abortion should be illegal.

If I knew you better I might say try to keep up" but I don't so I will not.
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I can keep up just find but I figured the part you were really interested in was the part you bolded. Silly assumption on my part I guess

I believe he said the Feds would go after things the state is trying to supersede. Is that not what you saw as "tyranny"?
 
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