ACC imploding???

If the beloved ACC implodes, which two schools would you most likely like to see join the SEC?

  • Total voters
    525
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#202
#202
dobre_shunka said:
Not to get all technical, but the geographic center of the contiguous US is in north central Kansas. Only Austin is outside (and just barely) of southeastern quadrant.
Click to expand...
Agreed, Lebanon, Kansas, is the place the US Geological Survey folks put the center of the continguous US.

But I've always wondered how they came up with that, since a simple quadrant split using any old national or world map (here I use google maps) puts the center further south and east, somewhere just east of Wichita.

1691691877214.png

If you put the crosshairs on Lebanon, KS (the red dot on the map, just to the right of the words "United States") as the USGS says, all the current and future SEC universities would indeed be inside the southeastern quadrant.

1691692246376.png

[Dobre, you mentioned Texas at Austin would be just outside, but Lebanon KS is 98.5 degrees west, while Austin is only 97.7 degrees west...meaning Austin is 8/10ths of a degree further east]

Go Vols!
 
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#203
#203
EconVol92 said:
No, to Virginia.

91 sugar bowl half time. Look it up.

They donā€™t carry any weight in football and not much in basketball.

Grab NC if you must as they bring BB.

GA Tech left because of cheap shots by Bama. Google Chick Graning for any questions about this.

Florida State as I donā€™t think we can hold Bowden against them turning down the invitation in 92.

From a football standpoint only FSU and Clemson add any clout.

Basketball would be NC and Duke, but we donā€™t need Duke or Wake.

I know that Iā€™m rambling here, but from a football only stance there are only two to add without getting a safe space U or Vandy feel about them.
Click to expand...
I was there, their band played the Elvis the king is dead and so are you. I was 26 at the time. A UT fan that had to be in his late forties or 50ā€™s was standing besides me at the concession stand angry and in tears said we better come back and beat these low life $@?! After the game folks chanted Elvis lives and so do the Vols! The next day Elvis lives was written all over cars with shaving cream or signs. A great comeback and one wild night! GBO
 
#204
#204
@stolitonic
"FSU has to pay $120 million to exit the ACC and their rights are held until 2036, correct? Doesn't ESPN actually own the media rights and not the ACC?"

I don't think ESPN owns the media rights. ESPN pays conferences and the conferences allow them to broadcast their school's games.

The schools, individually, agree to let the conferences control the media contracts for a specified length of time, called a "Grant of Rights," and that's where the problem is for FSU and Clemson. They've agreed to let the ACC control any money they receive for the broadcast of their games until 2036, whether they are in the ACC or not. The ACC, then, allocates the money back to the schools in the conference.

So, if FSU or Clemson jump to the SEC all the new TV revenue they might get from the SEC goes contractually to the ACC, not them. That's a disaster for the school + the $120M fee to leave.

That kind of contract is exactly why TX and OU waited to leave until the B12 TV contract only had a year left and they could negotiate the $100M to leave. 1 year is much easier to negotiate with than the ACC 12 years remaining.

ESPN is out of the loop. ESPN's contract money with the ACC and SEC is set. Sure, they might make much more ad revenue if the SEC expands, but they'd be crazy to turn around and share that extra revenue with the ACC.
 
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#205
#205
What exactly is the point of continuing to add more teams? Is Tennessee and all the other (many) teams in the conference going to keep making
more money from TV-rights deals with ever more league additions? And money-grubbing---if it even happens--is a good reason to destroy conferences? And this all leads to...what? Conference expansion got started, a few years back, because schools and conferences AND ESPN---got greedy, and then once it started it created a mad scramble by everyone else (leagues and schools) not to be left out of the pie-eating contest, and, predictably, this being America, it's spun way out of control and become rather ridiculous. It's become a big mess that nobody has a handle on . I saw where Sankey professed to be "sad" that the PAC12 has been destroyed. Right---a pretty lame comment, like the cat being sorry after he ate the parakeet. Sankey and the SEC have been big drivers of this madness.
 
#206
#206
VFL-82-JP said:
Agreed, Lebanon, Kansas, is the place the US Geological Survey folks put the center of the continguous US.

But I've always wondered how they came up with that, since a simple quadrant split using any old national or world map (here I use google maps) puts the center further south and east, somewhere just east of Wichita.

View attachment 568962

If you put the crosshairs on Lebanon, KS (the red dot on the map, just to the right of the words "United States") as the USGS says, all the current and future SEC universities would indeed be inside the southeastern quadrant.

View attachment 568963

[Dobre, you mentioned Texas at Austin would be just outside, but Lebanon KS is 98.5 degrees west, while Austin is only 97.7 degrees west...meaning Austin is 8/10ths of a degree further east]

Go Vols!
Click to expand...
I stand corrected.

I didn't get all high tech with drawing lines and comparing latitudes, just eyeballed it.
 
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#207
#207
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
@stolitonic


I don't think ESPN owns the media rights. ESPN pays conferences and the conferences allow them to broadcast their school's games.

The schools, individually, agree to let the conferences control the media contracts for a specified length of time, called a "Grant of Rights," and that's where the problem is for FSU and Clemson. They've agreed to let the ACC control any money they receive for the broadcast of their games until 2036, whether they are in the ACC or not. The ACC, then, allocates the money back to the schools in the conference.
Click to expand...

You are correct. The schools agree to let the ACC have the media rights. That is straightforward.

My question was this, is ESPN not then buying those same rights and hence becomes the final user. Basically, ESPN is subleasing those rights from the ACC to put things in simpler terms.

The ACC media deal and yearly pay out from ESPN are based upon at least in part viewership, subscriptions, etc.

If ESPN really wanted to do so, they could simply bury the games. Minimal viewership and then a drastically reduced payout to the ACC as a result

Conference implodes as EVERY team would bolt for somewhere
 
#208
#208
stolitonic said:
You are correct. The schools agree to let the ACC have the media rights. That is straightforward.

My question was this, is ESPN not then buying those same rights and hence becomes the final user. Basically, ESPN is subleasing those rights from the ACC to put things in simpler terms.

The ACC media deal and yearly pay out from ESPN are based upon at least in part viewership, subscriptions, etc.

If ESPN really wanted to do so, they could simply bury the games. Minimal viewership and then a drastically reduced payout to the ACC as a result

Conference implodes as EVERY team would bolt for somewhere
Click to expand...
I believe the contracts ESPN signs are with the conferences and are for set amounts. I think the $300M or whatever the SEC gets is fixed. The ACC amount is fixed, though the "Grant of Rights" isn't involved in the ESPN contract, it's between the schools and the conference.

ESPN needs to make their investment back and burying games doesn't reduce what they owe to the conference. Burying games would be stupid on at least two levels for ESPN: they lose as revenue and they lose goodwill with all the conferences.

ESPN won't "buy" FSU or Clemson out of their "Grant of Rights" problem. It's not good business sense and it signals that ESPN will knife the conferences in the back. It's not happening.
 
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#209
#209
VFL-82-JP said:
Agreed, Lebanon, Kansas, is the place the US Geological Survey folks put the center of the continguous US.

But I've always wondered how they came up with that, since a simple quadrant split using any old national or world map (here I use google maps) puts the center further south and east, somewhere just east of Wichita.

View attachment 568962

If you put the crosshairs on Lebanon, KS (the red dot on the map, just to the right of the words "United States") as the USGS says, all the current and future SEC universities would indeed be inside the southeastern quadrant.

View attachment 568963

[Dobre, you mentioned Texas at Austin would be just outside, but Lebanon KS is 98.5 degrees west, while Austin is only 97.7 degrees west...meaning Austin is 8/10ths of a degree further east]

Go Vols!
Click to expand...
As Columbus proved, the world is round, not flat.
 
#210
#210
spyfish007 said:
As Columbus proved, the world is round, not flat.
Click to expand...

We can get into the different methods of projecting a roughly spherical surface onto a flat sheet, and how Google Earth tackles that problem, and what that means when assessing relative distances on such a projection. I mean, we really can, if you like.

But I'll cut to the chase: your answer doesn't explain it. The way USGS calculates "center" from a contorted shape like the US will be something more complex than my "halfway between easternmost point and westernmost, then halfway between northernmost and southernmost." I just don't know what that method is.

Go Vols!
 
#211
#211
VFL-82-JP said:
We can get into the different methods of projecting a spherical surface onto a flat sheet, and how Google Earth tackles that problem, and what that means when assessing relative distances on such a projection. I mean, we really can, if you like.

But I'll cut to the chase: your answer doesn't explain it. The way USGS calculates "center" from a complex shape like the US will be something more complex than my "halfway between easternmost point and westernmost, then halfway between northernmost and southernmost." I just don't know what that method is.

Go Vols!
Click to expand...
Wikipedia
Knock yourself out. I didn't assume what level of knowledge you had or what level of conversation you wanted.
 
#212
#212
VFL-82-JP said:
Agreed, Lebanon, Kansas, is the place the US Geological Survey folks put the center of the continguous US.

But I've always wondered how they came up with that, since a simple quadrant split using any old national or world map (here I use google maps) puts the center further south and east, somewhere just east of Wichita.

Go Vols!
Click to expand...

It's called the centroid. (x,y) = (the integral of xdA over the integral of dA, the integral of ydA over the integral of dA).
Adding Alaska and Hawaii moved the centroid to Castle Rock, SD.
This does not include coastal water.
 
#213
#213
woodpusher said:
It's called the centroid. (x,y) = (the integral of xdA over the integral of dA, the integral of ydA over the integral of dA).
Adding Alaska and Hawaii moved the centroid to Castle Rock, SD.
This does not include coastal water.
Click to expand...
Please explain the terms xdA and dA.

I'm sincerely curious. I appreciate you shedding light on it.

EDIT: nvm, I googled the term centroid. I understand now. Thanks very much for the insight!

And this does explain why the centroid is northwest of the center point plotted my simplistic way. I mean, that shift is actually intuitive once explained.

Thanks again.

Go Vols!
 
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#214
#214
You've got that big chunk of water in the southeast of the bounding rectangle -- much smaller in the northwest.
Also the map has to be in linear units (miles, feet, meters, etc.)
Ideally equal area and equidistant but that is impossible on a flat map.
 
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#215
#215
We must remember it is not just football they would look at, it's all sports and the academics wouldn't hurt either North Carolina and Duke would come closer to what they may want.
 
#216
#216
Louisville, NC st, NC, Duke could go to SEC. Thereā€™s no reason to get any more traditional ā€œfootballā€ schools. SEC is looking to get in those basketball rivalries
 
#218
#218
turbovol said:
What exactly is the point of continuing to add more teams? Is Tennessee and all the other (many) teams in the conference going to keep making
more money from TV-rights deals with ever more league additions? And money-grubbing---if it even happens--is a good reason to destroy conferences? And this all leads to...what? Conference expansion got started, a few years back, because schools and conferences AND ESPN---got greedy, and then once it started it created a mad scramble by everyone else (leagues and schools) not to be left out of the pie-eating contest, and, predictably, this being America, it's spun way out of control and become rather ridiculous. It's become a big mess that nobody has a handle on . I saw where Sankey professed to be "sad" that the PAC12 has been destroyed. Right---a pretty lame comment, like the cat being sorry after he ate the parakeet. Sankey and the SEC have been big drivers of this madness.
Click to expand...
He is sad the teams that are coveted went to the his biggest rival. B1G now has big upgrades for the next TV deal.
 
#219
#219
Winning the SEC is hard enough as it is. For heavens sake, if we keep this stuff up we are going to have a conference schedule only. I would hate that. I like getting a chance to play the random UCLA, ND, or many others.
 
#220
#220
Cal and Stanford to the ACC???? Sure, now that makes as much sense as appointing Hunter Biden as the next US Ambassador to Ukraine.
 
#222
#222
BigOrangeMojo said:
No to NCSU and Duke. Don't see the value.

UVA and UNC make sense from New TV Market standpoint..

Clemson and Miami don't add new markets but it keeps another conference from plucking them...
Click to expand...
UVA & UNC is the correct answer. Footprint and TV Markets.

Plus they have the infrastructure in place to contribute in Football. Good athletic departments.
 
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#223
#223
Only two teams out there move the needle from a marketing standpoint. Notre Dame and North Carolina. We already have a SC Footprint and the North Carolina market is huge. Thatā€™s the only two teams we should even consider. We do t need 20 teams. The larger the conference the smaller the payout if you add teams with less value. FSU, Miami, Clemson and Virginia do not move the needle.
 
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