Ainge Comparisons

[sonofajohn]

Originally posted by swami2302@Dec 13, 2005 12:38 PM
People forget that Coach Cut spent quite a bit of time with Quinn before the health problems.  I think Weiss saw how valuable coach Cutcliff was and wanted him to coach Quinn.  I'm starting to think that sonofajohn is nothing more than a troll.

[snapback]214053[/snapback]​

The stats that I posted are Quinns freshman and sophomore stats against Ainges first two years...therefore there was no Weiss or Cutcliffe guidance! The numbers Quinn put up this year were merely his continued improvement since his freshman year, look at the stats in all three years and you will see steady improvement across the board. HE IS A MUCH DIFFERENT PLAYER THAN AINGE!

The telling thing about Ainge is, if I was a QB who knew that pretty much all my fans wanted me out, I would make a conscious decision not to play shadow basketball on the sidelines during warm ups and my teams games.

 

[Lexvol]

I heard that Quinn prefers to play shadow Soccer when he is not in the game, so you are right, there is no comparison.

 

[sonofajohn]

Originally posted by allvol@Dec 13, 2005 5:58 PM
Ironically, Ainge has started 11 games... the typical number for a full season.  As a starter, Ainge has a career record of 8-3. 

Last season he was 4-2 and included the loss to Notre Dame, which the Vols were leading when he left the game.  He lost his first start, against Auburn.  His wins include victories over Georgia and Alabama.  His other wins include Ole Miss and South Carolina.

This season he was 4-1 but includes the LSU game when the Vols were behind big time when he left the game.  His lone loss was to Notre Dame.  His wins include UAB, LSU, Memphis, and Kentucky.

[snapback]214184[/snapback]​

That stat is not telling at all. Using that, Ainge gets credit for the win at LSU and Clausen takes the loss at Florida (Clausen took a total of 5 snaps.) Ainge also got credit for the Memphis win. Again, totally worthless in comparing these two.

better comparison of W-L one might observe who had more pa$$ attempts in attributing the W or the L (since we cannot look at who had more snaps in stat books.) Using this method Clausen was 4-3 while Ainge was 1-3.

More info on the Clausen vs. Ainge matchup, Clausen got pulled after the Bama game in which he went 11 for 17 for 150 yds, no TDs no INTs. Ainge went 0 for 2, 1 INT, and Croyle went 17 for 27, 190 yds no TDs no INTs. Clausen was the best QB in the game, completing 65% of his pa$$es, compared to 62% by Croyle, for an avg of 14 yds compared to 11 for Croyle. AND CLAUSEN GOT PULLED AFTER THAT GAME! He was replaced by Ainge who went 9 for 21, 65 yards against SC.

 

[Lexvol]

If Clausens could only throw with their mouth you might be on to something.

 

[JasonCajun]

Fact is, if Clausen was good enough to remove all doubt, he would be playing. But he stunk up the place, too.

 

[CSpindizzy]

I'm in the stats and data business and no matter what stat you have in front of you, you can look at it from endless perspectives. You can add variables all day. It doesn't matter. Sonofajohn comes on here with a flat argument about comparing QBs from different situations in every aspect and basing his argument on that. With his logic UT football should just quit because our stats as an entire team sucked. So everyone must've been playing shadow basketball on the sideline. I think I even saw Fulmer making some shadow dunks on occassion.

 

[cotton]

Originally posted by sonofajohn@Dec 12, 2005 9:43 PM


As you can see, over there first 2 seasons, Ainge and Quinn were moving in opposite directions.

You are correct--we did not have improvement at the quarterback position this year, and most of the time, our qbs looked worse than they did last year. It makes you think that maybe Fulmer should do something like make significant changes at offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach, as well as trying to get these guys some help by shifting things around with the O-line and receivers coaches.

Oh, wait...nevermind. That has already happened.

Ainge has talent; we all saw that in '04. Cutcliff and Fulmer will figure out if he's got the intelligence and maturity to develope. This year was an offensive (pun intended) train wreck, but before we bury Ainge, let's see if a new master can teach the student.

 

[jakez4ut]

Originally posted by sonofajohn@Dec 12, 2005 10:54 PM
Oh definitely, I mean, look at Carlyle Hollidays development...or how about all those Stanford QBs that are running around the NFL right now that played for Tye.  Wait, my bad, they don't exist.  It's time to call a spade a spade, and Erik Ainge sucks!

[snapback]213855[/snapback]​

Dude your off your rocker, why don't you go get some crimson hats and sweatshirts, and lets call a spade a spade....sonofajohn your no better than a bammer..... :rock:

 

[jakez4ut]

Originally posted by allvol@Dec 13, 2005 5:42 PM
I think a better comparison would be...

Quinn

YEAR  CMP  ATT  YDS  CMP%  YPA  LNG  TD  INT  SACK RAT
2003  157  332  1831  47.3  5.52  85    9    15    13  93.52

Ainge

YEAR  CMP  ATT  YDS CMP%  YPA LNG TD  INT  SACK  RAT
04-05 175  343  2189  51.0  6.38 60    22  16    14  116.47

Notice how close the stats are now that you combine Ainge's first two seasons.  He really just now has as much experience as Quinn had after 1 season at Notre Dame.  Quinn had 332 attempts in his freshman season.... while Ainge only has 343 career attempts.

[snapback]214169[/snapback]​

what is this i see? sanity? really? wow, this is what it looks like. My hats off to you allvol. :hi:

 

[vols2345]

Originally posted by sonofajohn@Dec 13, 2005 6:10 PM
The stats that I posted are Quinns freshman and sophomore stats against Ainges first two years...therefore there was no Weiss or Cutcliffe guidance!  The numbers Quinn put up this year were merely his continued improvement since his freshman year, look at the stats in all three years and you will see steady improvement across the board.  HE IS A MUCH DIFFERENT PLAYER THAN AINGE!

The telling thing about Ainge is, if I was a QB who knew that pretty much all my fans wanted me out, I would make a conscious decision not to play shadow basketball on the sidelines during warm ups and my teams games.

[snapback]214267[/snapback]​

lets not forget tyrone willingham can coach, flat out i dont care who you are he can coach and he is good with qb's, well better than RS is anyways...

Can you just give EA a chance and show him some support?? The kid is having confidence problems since he tore ligaments in his shoulder and has never felt the pain of not being able to play or even throw a ball for 7 months. give him time, he will develop into a stud. lets not forget that he is so young. he didnt make alot of mistakes last year and made up for it this year i figure. I expect him to be back to ea next year and then his senior year he will be a stud...


Besides tell me what Carson Palmer did before his seinor year??? look at him now.

 

[sonofajohn]

Originally posted by vols2345@Dec 13, 2005 8:30 PM
lets not forget tyrone willingham can coach, flat out i dont care who you are he can coach and he is good with qb's, well better than RS is anyways... 

Can you just give EA a chance and show him some support??  The kid is having confidence problems since he tore ligaments in his shoulder and has never felt the pain of not being able to play or even throw a ball for 7 months.  give him time, he will develop into a stud.  lets not forget that he is so young.  he didnt make alot of mistakes last year and made up for it this year i figure.  I expect him to be back to ea next year and then his senior year he will be a stud...
Besides tell me what Carson Palmer did before his seinor year???  look at him now.

[snapback]214291[/snapback]​

Are you kidding me with that last question about Carson Palmer's career? Until Leinhart, he held every USC career record and 6 Pac-10 career records, including most total offensive yards, most passing yards, most seasons with 2,500 yards of total offense (3.) That last record alone proves he was more than just a senior year spark.

I love you UT, but that doesn't blind me from the obvious, that the only thing anyone can do with Ainge is hope that he somehow turns around. Also, don't blame anyone but Ainge for only having 11 starts in 2 years...maybe he should have earned the starting job outright! The fact is he could never distance himself from Rick Clausen, the QB whom Nick Saban said was not SEC caliber!

The fact is, I despise Ainge. Not only has he not taken the 2005 season seriously enough to devote himself to becoming a great QB, his being hailed as some kind of Golden Boy sidelined Schaeffer for much of the 2004 season, beginning in the first half of the Florida game. What were Schaeffers stats for his first 2 games, that were so awful he should have been replaced by Ainge?

UNLV:
Schaeffer 7for10 123 yds 1 TD 7 rushes 29 yds 1 TD
Ainge 10for17 118 yds 2 TD

Florida:
Schaeffer 3for4 40 yds 0 TD 7 rushes 38 yds
Ainge 16for24 192 yds 3 TD 1 INT -2 yds rushing

That to me doesn't look so much like Ainge winning the job as much as it looks like the coaching staff playing favorites. In both games, Schaeffer had a higher completion %, higher yds per completion and attempt, and could run the ball for 4 to 5 yards per carry. Everyone seems to always point to the Florida game as Ainges crowning moment, yet, I have a hard time canonizing someone after passing for less than 192 yards with a pick.

 

[Jmxvol]

I would compare Ainge to Ingle Martin

 

[vols2345]

Originally posted by sonofajohn@Dec 13, 2005 8:53 PM
Are you kidding me with that last question about Carson Palmer's career?  Until Leinhart, he held every USC career record and 6 Pac-10 career records, including most total offensive yards, most passing yards, most seasons with 2,500 yards of total offense (3.)  That last record alone proves he was more than just a senior year spark.

I love you UT, but that doesn't blind me from the obvious, that the only thing anyone can do with Ainge is hope that he somehow turns around.  Also, don't blame anyone but Ainge for only having 11 starts in 2 years...maybe he should have earned the starting job outright!  The fact is he could never distance himself from Rick Clausen, the QB whom Nick Saban said was not SEC caliber!

The fact is, I despise Ainge.  Not only has he not taken the 2005 season seriously enough to devote himself to becoming a great QB, his being hailed as some kind of Golden Boy sidelined Schaeffer for much of the 2004 season, beginning in the first half of the Florida game.  What were Schaeffers stats for his first 2 games, that were so awful he should have been replaced by Ainge?

UNLV: 
Schaeffer  7for10 123 yds 1 TD 7 rushes 29 yds 1 TD
Ainge      10for17 118 yds 2 TD 

Florida:
Schaeffer  3for4  40 yds  0 TD 7 rushes 38 yds
Ainge      16for24 192 yds 3 TD 1 INT -2 yds rushing

That to me doesn't look so much like Ainge winning the job as much as it looks like the coaching staff playing favorites.  In both games, Schaeffer had a higher completion %, higher yds per completion and attempt, and could run the ball for 4 to 5 yards per carry.  Everyone seems to always point to the Florida game as Ainges crowning moment, yet, I have a hard time canonizing someone after passing for less than 192 yards with a pick.

[snapback]214354[/snapback]​

umm did you not watch that game??? and hello, everyone passes for 2,500 yards in the pac-10, where have you been. Carson Palmer had one extrodinary year

 

[therickbol]

you cant just look at the numbers. if you watched those games you know all Schaeffer's yardage was YAC. He didn't throw anything but short dump off passes. He couldn't read a defense or make any down the field passes.

 

[sonofajohn]

Originally posted by vols2345@Dec 13, 2005 9:55 PM
umm did you not watch that game??? and hello, everyone passes for 2,500 yards in the pac-10, where have you been.  Carson Palmer had one extrodinary year,

[snapback]214358[/snapback]​

If everyone passes for 2,500 in the Pac-10 then Palmer wouldn't hold the record for most 2,500 yard seasons (3.) Setting the record for most total yards in a Pac-10 career (not just passing, so this includes O.J. Simpson, Marcus Allen, Troy Aikman, Ryan Leaf, Drew Bledsoe, and all other players ever to play in the Pac-10,) most passing yards in career (again Aikman, Leaf, Bledsoe, etc.) Just because you live in Oregon does not mean you are a Pac-10 expert.

 

[sonofajohn]

Everything I say on this site is backed up with statistics, and the only player I have ripped on is Ainge and I have made statements that Cutcliffe is overrated as a QB guru.

Do I think that our offensive production will improve with Cut as OC? Yes. Do I think Ainge's QB play will be a 180 turnaround from this season? NO. Ainge will look a little better (probably about a 90, 95 QB rating,) because Cutcliffe's running offense (man scheme in traditional formation) is more effective than Sanders running offense (zone scheme in a spread offense.) Arian Foster and DeMarcus Cokely with the lead blocking of Cory Anderson, will take a ton of pressure of either Ainge or Crompton, leading to more 2nd and 3rd in short situations, against 8 in the box defenses, ergo, less mistakes. However, less mistakes and a better QB rating, with around only 20-25 attempts a game, does not make Ainge a better QB. If Ainge truly is a stellar QB either his junior or senior year, then Cutcliffe will give him 40-45 attempts a game...I do not see that happening.

 

[milohimself]

This thread turned ugly...

Well. My two cents says that Tennessee's 2005 offense was among the worst coaching jobs I have ever witnessed. Making an assesment of whose play made the offense terrible this season is impossible, because nobody peformed, except the second half at LSU and Arian Foster for brief moments.

The offensive line was awful, so we got zero pass protection. Not only that but no run support either, which made it all the more difficult to set up the pass. And our WR's... Victims of wood chipper accidents could have done a better job than Tennessee's wideouts this season. They wouldn't grab a ball unless it hit them squarely on the chest and even then... No QB on Earth could have done well in the offense Tennessee had this season. I'd bet my bottom dollar that even Peyton couldn't have done well with the way things were going this season.

So everybody just calm down. Cutcliffe is running the offense, not you. Cutcliffe calls the shots. If he says that Ainge is a pro in hiding, I'd suggest you shut your yap and trust him on that assesment. I'm pretty sure he's more qualified at judging talent than any of the schmucks on this board.

 

[sonofajohn]

Originally posted by milohimself@Dec 14, 2005 1:22 AM
This thread turned ugly...

Well. My two cents says that Tennessee's 2005 offense was among the worst coaching jobs I have ever witnessed. Making an assesment of whose play made the offense terrible this season is impossible, because nobody peformed, except the second half at LSU and Arian Foster for brief moments.

The offensive line was awful, so we got zero pass protection. Not only that but no run support either, which made it all the more difficult to set up the pass. And our WR's... Victims of wood chipper accidents could have done a better job than Tennessee's wideouts this season. They wouldn't grab a ball unless it hit them squarely on the chest and even then... No QB on Earth could have done well in the offense Tennessee had this season. I'd bet my bottom dollar that even Peyton couldn't have done well with the way things were going this season.

So everybody just calm down. Cutcliffe is running the offense, not you. Cutcliffe calls the shots. If he says that Ainge is a pro in hiding, I'd suggest you shut your yap and trust him on that assesment. I'm pretty sure he's more qualified at judging talent than any of the schmucks on this board.

[snapback]214520[/snapback]​

Cutcliffe never actually said that "Ainge is a pro in hiding." The supposed article on that post is a complete fabrication. Also, for such a 'lack of protection' provided by our offensive line, we took a surprisingly low number of sacks this year. Our offensive line was much better than was given credit for, especially considering that teams could stack the box against us because nobody had to respect our passing game. Again, the only change I would have made with respect to coaching and/or playcalling would have been to take the size and speed we had on our O Line and used it to man block (and create predesignated running lanes,) instead of zone blocking (thus creating one or more holes that the RB must consciously seek out.)

 

[milohimself]

There was a low number of sacks because Clausen was in a good chunk of the time, and he'd just line up shotgun and dump the ball to the FB or throw a screen pass.

Unfortunately I didn't get to watch much Tennessee football because of a lack of broadcasts and a work schedule that calls for frequent, and hellaciously long, Saturday shifts. But when I did, and saw Ainge attempt to drop back and throw a decent ball, the backfield got flooded very very fast.

Though I do agree with you that it's all about man blocking.

 

[sonofajohn]

Originally posted by milohimself@Dec 14, 2005 1:42 AM
There was a low number of sacks because Clausen was in a good chunk of the time, and he'd just line up shotgun and dump the ball to the FB or throw a screen pass.

Unfortunately I didn't get to watch much Tennessee football because of a lack of broadcasts and a work schedule that calls for frequent, and hellaciously long, Saturday shifts. But when I did, and saw Ainge attempt to drop back and throw a decent ball, the backfield got flooded very very fast.

Though I do agree with you that it's all about man blocking.

[snapback]214534[/snapback]​

Man blocking is the reason that UT fans should be excited about getting Cutcliffe back, because he and Fulmer share the same 'pound the rock' philosophy, while Sanders wanted to spread the offense out and let the QBs loose with four or five talented WRs, part of this scheme (like most spread schemes, involves zone blocked running plays.)

What has happened over the past 7 years, is that the offensive personnel recruited has been recruited more and more to support the spread scheme (that is why we go 6 and 7 deep at WR.) Unfortunately, Fulmer's philosophy is the aforementioned 'pound the rock' philosophy of coaching. Well, it is pretty hard to play smashmouth football out of spread formations, and even harder while zone blocking. Something had to give, and Fulmer knew this 3 years ago when he took over complete control of gameplanning about halfway through the season. The playcalling barely changed...the offensive sets changed drastically (and we were productive.) After two 10 win seasons in which most of the offensive sets stuck to traditional I form, TE, 2 WRs, I believe Fulmer bought into the pre season hype of our offensive talent, and decided to let Sanders loose...almost. He let Sanders return to the spread, but still insisted on gameplanning for tough inside running. This basically handcuffed Sanders offense, especially when our QBs and WRs couldn't put it together early, forcing more running plays. Our offense stalled out, QBs and WRs (both of which were not all that mentally tough) lost complete confidence, and that turned into the 5-6 season.

Unfortunately, Fulmer was loyal enough to Sanders not to get rid of him earlier, yet he didn't trust Sanders enough to give him complete sovereignty over the offense. The Fulmer-Sanders journey is basically a case study of bad leadership principles.

 

[milohimself]

The only way I can picture all of that happening is if Fulmer gave Sanders more control over the offense, or the recruiting. If we've been recruiting the wrong players and setting up the wrong schemes, sounds like Fulmer has let things get a bit out of hand.

 

[IBleedOrange24/7]

Originally posted by therickbol@Dec 13, 2005 9:35 AM
You people are idiots. You "experts" that are clarifying how much Ainge sucks need to be able to eat crow if he turns it around. The FACT of this matter is that you have no idea and David Cutcliffe has forgotten more about football (especially QB position) than you have even known. So, get off your soapbox and let them play themselves out. Its a long time until next season. And, shut the heck up about Crompton starting next season. He is not even throwing a football right now, and probably won't throw a full weight football until mid-January or early-Feb. He will not be prepared to start next season. Ainge could be.

[snapback]214008[/snapback]​

Amen, with the x= unknown amount of a number. Spurt= we all know what that amounts too.

As for JC not throwing a "full weight" ball, is when your post started sounding much like XSPURT catagory.

He is and has been throwing. Full weight, ummm i bet they took two pounds of air out of the ball for him, so its lite. :birgits_giggle:

 

[IBleedOrange24/7]

Originally posted by sonofajohn@Dec 14, 2005 1:03 AM
Man blocking is the reason that UT fans should be excited about getting Cutcliffe back, because he and Fulmer share the same 'pound the rock' philosophy, while Sanders wanted to spread the offense out and let the QBs loose with four or five talented WRs, part of this scheme (like most spread schemes, involves zone blocked running plays.)

What has happened over the past 7 years, is that the offensive personnel recruited has been recruited more and more to support the spread scheme (that is why we go 6 and 7 deep at WR.)  Unfortunately, Fulmer's philosophy is the aforementioned 'pound the rock' philosophy of coaching.  Well, it is pretty hard to play smashmouth football out of spread formations, and even harder while zone blocking.  Something had to give, and Fulmer knew this 3 years ago when he took over complete control of gameplanning about halfway through the season.  The playcalling barely changed...the offensive sets changed drastically (and we were productive.)  After two 10 win seasons in which most of the offensive sets stuck to traditional I form, TE, 2 WRs, I believe Fulmer bought into the pre season hype of our offensive talent, and decided to let Sanders loose...almost.  He let Sanders return to the spread, but still insisted on gameplanning for tough inside running.  This basically handcuffed Sanders offense, especially when our QBs and WRs couldn't put it together early, forcing more running plays.  Our offense stalled out, QBs and WRs (both of which were not all that mentally tough) lost complete confidence, and that turned into the 5-6 season.

Unfortunately, Fulmer was loyal enough to Sanders not to get rid of him earlier, yet he didn't trust Sanders enough to give him complete sovereignty over the offense.  The Fulmer-Sanders journey is basically a case study of bad leadership principles.

[snapback]214540[/snapback]​

6-7 Deep? HUH..... :mf_surrender:

 

[OWB]

Originally posted by IBleedOrange24/7@Dec 14, 2005 5:46 AM
He is and has been throwing. Full weight, ummm i bet they took two pounds of air out of the ball for him, so its lite. :birgits_giggle:

[snapback]214562[/snapback]​

Yep, I saw him throwing the ball in the warm up drills pregame Vandy.

 

[CSpindizzy]

One minute Sanders is solely responsible for the offense stats and the next minute he's hindered by Fulmer. I'm hearing both out of the mouth of the same person. Since we're big on stats, let's just face it. Since Sanders has been here the offensive production BOTH rushing and receiving has took a downward turn. Now those stats don't lie. So defending Sanders as a guru or better than he was just doesn't add up.

What 'handcuffed' Sanders' offense were penalties, fumbles, dropped balls, overthrown passes.....lack of focus and discipline and a complete disregard for the fundamentals of offense. What 'handcuffed' Sanders' offense was Sanders.