Ainge doing missionary work...

[vol75]

Originally posted by Jasongivm6@Nov 14, 2005 11:30 AM
"The game now has increased in speed, since I've been in college, that it is a must that you have a very mobile QB."
Tell that to Pete Carroll.

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The PAC-10 lacks speed. The SEC and the ACC has pro-style speed. Now Texas has some of that same speed and that is why Vince Young will smoke the USC defense in the title game. Can you dig it?

Don't hate on speed. Everyone can't have it. Its's only for the blessed few.

 

[CSpindizzy]

Originally posted by Liper@Nov 14, 2005 10:03 AM
Simple question: Who do you think gives us a better chance to win our last games, RC or EA?

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Honestly I really don't know. Ainge shows up against Notre Dame and opens it up. He tied it with 21 going late in the game. With a big game like this he shows he can drive and take the pressure. Then he tanks. The same goes for Clausen. He does great against LSU but that could have been for numerous reasons. he had something to prove against them and with all of the adrenaline for LSU burned off they were mincemeat. He tanks against Bama and SC.

Both have not consistently proven they can drive and win. Stats can be argued either way all day long. Asking me who can win against UK and VU is a handicapped question also. I don't think you can accurately judge either one of these guys with the way they play sometime and don't others. Plus with the offense playing one drive and not the other there are too many factors to consider.

Like I said before Ainge brings more to the table but with a lot of risks. Clausen brings safe passes to the table but little overall production. I think both could win against the two remaining teams providing that everyone plays above par ball. I think regardless Fulmer is still going to rotate, which causes the problem to build even more.

Another HUGE issue is that if these players quality of play is determined by who snaps the ball it speaks volumes for the overall attitude of the team. If my attitude of play of going out there and playing serious ball and winning depends on the QB, then the coaches have some greater issues out there besides who is QB.

 

[Liper]

Originally posted by vol75@Nov 14, 2005 11:44 AM
The PAC-10 lacks speed. The SEC and the ACC has pro-style speed.  Now Texas has some of that same speed and that is why Vince Young will smoke the USC defense in the title game. Can you dig it?

Don't hate on speed. Everyone can't have it. Its's only for the blessed few.

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How many championships has V Young won so far?

How many championships has M Leinart won so far?

How have SEC and ACC teams fared against TEX and USC?

If I remember, just a season or two ago we sent ARK into the Cotton Bowl and dismembered TEX.

 

[WA_Vol]

Originally posted by Liper@Nov 14, 2005 12:38 PM
Do you think the college game is faster than the NFL?  If not, I think your conclusions are wrong.

Look at the great teams and offenses in the NFL.  Against good talent, a QB needs to be a passer and a game manager.

John Elway
Kurt Warner
Tom Brady
Trent Dilfer
Brad Johnson
Brett Favre
Troy Aikman
Steve Young

See anything in common with those guys?  The better the defenses, the MORE emphasis is on PASSING and game management than mobility.

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I think what separates a lot of those guys from the rest of the NFL qb's is they had a rocket for a arm. UT hasnt had that in a while. CC, RC, EA, etc dont have that kind of velocity. The only one close is EA and he cant get the ball within 3 yds of the receivers half the time. The other thing, is they are extremely accurate. Especially Warner and Young, 2 with very QB ratings.

 

[Liper]

Originally posted by CSpindizzy@Nov 14, 2005 11:51 AM
Honestly I really don't know.

He does great against LSU but that could have been for numerous reasons. he had something to prove against them and with all of the adrenaline for LSU burned off they were mincemeat. He tanks against Bama and SC.

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1. You don't know? Interesting.

2. Clausen only played two series against USC.

3. We decided to run and play it close against BAMA.

It seems like you choose to blame RC for our team's problems irrespect of the source of the problem.

 

[Liper]

Originally posted by oklavol@Nov 14, 2005 11:56 AM
I think what separates a lot of those guys from the rest of the NFL qb's is they had a rocket for a arm.  UT hasnt had that in a while.  CC, RC, EA, etc dont have that kind of velocity.  The only one close is EA and he cant get the ball within 3 yds of the receivers half the time.  The other thing, is they are extremely accurate.  Especially Warner and Young, 2 with very QB ratings.

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Yeah, but you're talking about two separate issues. Dominating in the NFL and being a very good college QB are two different things. That's the best of the best, essentially. And they are all cerebral passing QBs.

My main point was that, as the talent improves, the need for a cerebral-passer is INCREASED, not vice versa.

 

[vol75]

Originally posted by Liper@Nov 14, 2005 11:51 AM
How many championships has V Young won so far?

How many championships has M Leinart won so far?

How have SEC and ACC teams fared against TEX and USC?

If I remember, just a season or two ago we sent ARK into the Cotton Bowl and dismembered TEX.

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It is about ebbs and flows. V Young will win his first title this year with Texas. Leinart had won 1.5, and don't believe LSU should have shared the title with them. If it would have been head to head competition, LSU would have crushed USC because at that time they had the best front 4 in the country with Chad Lavalae and company? Last year, they were scared to pair Auburn with USC. Cadillac and Brown would have crucified their defense. Yeah, Arkansas killed Texas then, but can they do it now? Put USC in the SEC and the ACC and see how they would fare. Let them face the Miami's, Tennessee's, Virginia Tech's, Auburn's, etc. every week and see how well they do.

The South is where its at. Don't every forget it.

 

[Lexvol]

Clausen + Randy Sanders = Underacheivement

Doesn't matter which Clausen, but this has been a constant variable in the equation since UT began their slide.

 

[dan4vols]

Still even if its a rumor it provokes a great idea.....youd never have to get up for another beer with multiple wives! :dance2:

 

[Liper]

Originally posted by vol75@Nov 14, 2005 12:04 PM
It is about ebbs and flows. V Young will win his first title this year with Texas. Leinart had won 1.5, and don't believe LSU should have shared the title with them. If it would have been head to head competition, LSU would have crushed USC because at that time they had the best front 4 in the country with Chad Lavalae and company? Last year, they were scared to pair Auburn with USC. Cadillac and Brown would have crucified their defense. Yeah, Arkansas killed Texas then, but can they do it now? Put USC in the SEC and the ACC and see how they would fare. Let them face the Miami's, Tennessee's, Virginia Tech's, Auburn's, etc. every week and see how well they do.

The South is where its at. Don't every forget it.

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Why is Texas so much better this year? Answer: Because V Young can now complete a forward pass. Prior to this year, I had serious questions about that. Ask Oklahoma.

They've done a good job building the offense around him. BTW, that is what the spread option can do when you've got the spread and the option. Leak can't do it.

USC has beaten anyone and everyone. SEC or otherwise. I guess we'll find out who's better, eh?

P.S. V Young will never make it in the NFL.

 

[OWB]

Originally posted by Liper@Nov 14, 2005 12:09 PM
Why is Texas so much better this year?  Answer: Because V Young can now complete a forward pass.  Prior to this year, I had serious questions about that.  Ask Oklahoma.

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A lot of his passes are just the result of throwing it up and letting the receiver go up and make the difficult catch too. Something we haven't seen from our guys.

 

[gonygonygo]

Originally posted by vol75@Nov 14, 2005 11:44 AM
The PAC-10 lacks speed. The SEC and the ACC has pro-style speed.  Now Texas has some of that same speed and that is why Vince Young will smoke the USC defense in the title game. Can you dig it?

Don't hate on speed. Everyone can't have it. Its's only for the blessed few.

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You are leaving out Reggie Bush when you talk about speed. It could very well be the same thing for the Texas defense trying to tackle him. As much as I would like to believe he is overrated for being on a good team, he is one of the most difficult guys to catch and tackle in the open field.

 

[vol75]

Originally posted by Liper@Nov 14, 2005 12:09 PM
Why is Texas so much better this year?  Answer: Because V Young can now complete a forward pass.  Prior to this year, I had serious questions about that.  Ask Oklahoma.

They've done a good job building the offense around him.  BTW, that is what the spread option can do when you've got the spread and the option.  Leak can't do it.

USC has beaten anyone and everyone.  SEC or otherwise.  I guess we'll find out who's better, eh?

P.S. V Young will never make it in the NFL.

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If Eric Crouch can be drafted, I know V Young will be drafted. Stop hating on the kid. He's fun to watch. Why do people hate the black athletic QB's? Eric Crouch did the same things, but he couldn't pass a lick, but he was a God. Go figure.

 

[Liper]

Originally posted by vol75@Nov 14, 2005 12:13 PM
If Eric Crouch can be drafted, I know V Young will be drafted. Stop hating on the kid. He's fun to watch. Why do people hate the black athletic QB's? Eric Crouch did the same things, but he couldn't pass a lick, but he was a God. Go figure.

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E Crouch didn't get drafted to play QB, and neither did Scott Frost; neither will V Young. Matt Jones is playing WR.

Who said I hated V Young? You did, not me.

Who said "people" hate athletic black QBs? You did, not me.

OK, I get it. You're black and think white people don't like mobile QBs. Real intelligent.

 

[CSpindizzy]

Originally posted by Liper@Nov 14, 2005 11:59 AM
1. You don't know?  Interesting.

2. Clausen only played two series against USC.

3. We decided to run and play it close against BAMA.

It seems like you choose to blame RC for our team's problems irrespect of the source of the problem.

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Yes I don't know and neither do you. I never said I did know. Are you saying you know or have expert opinion on the matter?

It seems....hmmm. Or you assume that is what I am saying? More likely you assuming. I have said and will continue to say that Clausen has underperformed. For a senior with his knowledge and experience he has underachieved and bogged down MUCH MORE than he has achieved. Those two series? 5 for 11 for only 34 yards and an interception. Sounds like an Ainge stat doesn't it?

You're clearly not reading everything I'm saying. As a matter of fact you probably had your response ready to go before I even posted mine. I've said that the problem lies deeper than the QB. I've said the problem is a lot more than Ainge's head. You seem to be bent on Ainge as the only source of the offense's problem and harp on that in every post. Read my full post and then respond. Conversations work better that way.

 

[vol75]

Originally posted by Liper@Nov 14, 2005 12:23 PM
E Crouch didn't get drafted to play QB, and neither did Scott Frost; neither will V Young.  Matt Jones is playing WR.

Who said I hated V Young?  You did, not me.

Who said "people" hate athletic black QBs?  You did, not me.

OK, I get it.  You're black and think white people don't like mobile QBs.  Real intelligent.

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Did I strike a nerve. Be easy.

 

[Liper]

Originally posted by CSpindizzy@Nov 14, 2005 12:27 PM
Yes I don't know and neither do you.

I have said and will continue to say that Clausen has underperformed.

I've said that the problem lies deeper than the QB.

You seem to be bent on Ainge as the only source of the offense's problem and harp on that in every post.

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I thought it was interesting that you still think Ainge and RC are equally bad. I cannot comprehend that, but that's fine.

I agree that RC has underpeformed for what we need.

I agree that problems lie deeper than the QB.

I think the coaching staff is the largest problem, and I've said that 500 times in the last 3 weeks.

 

[Liper]

Originally posted by vol75@Nov 14, 2005 12:30 PM
Did I strike a nerve. Be easy.

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No nerve. I was just responding to each assertion you made, and further supporting my statements about mobility and its place in the game.

Did you disagree with any of my points?

 

[patrick]

CSpin, I agree with you. The offense has more problems than I can count. And oh yeah, I think EA only played two series against Memphis, similar to Clausen v USC.

I am not defending EA but Clausen was never supposed to actually play at UT.

 

[vol75]

Originally posted by Liper@Nov 14, 2005 12:39 PM
No nerve.  I was just responding to each assertion you made, and further supporting my statements about mobility and its place in the game.

Did you disagree with any of my points?

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No, I didn't disagree. I am glad that you are one who supports and athletic QB. I have been around this sport all my life and the QB's who don't fit the mold of a pure passer always have to deal with the negative, much like Vick.

 

[orangetd88]

Well, just because you're athletic doesn't mean you can throw very well. When you play qb, you ahve to be able to throw. There are more and more qbs who can do both now, which I like.

Just because a qb is mobile doesn't make him great.

 

[CSpindizzy]

Originally posted by Liper@Nov 14, 2005 12:36 PM
I thought it was interesting that you still think Ainge and RC are equally bad.  I cannot comprehend that, but that's fine.
I think the coaching staff is the largest problem, and I've said that 500 times in the last 3 weeks.

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They are not equally bad. They are bad in their own ways and good in their own ways. Fulmer and staff know more than we do and that is what decides who plays. Flopping has done little to resolve the problem and judging afer one or two series is not a good method as well. I agree with you on the coaching issues and have said the same thing since day one. I guess when it comes down to it we agree on the overall thought but we depart on the fine details. When all is said and done, the overall thought we agree on as being a problem still lingers as a problem unfortunately. Again, odds are on that Fulmer flops at least one more time on the QB situation before the end of the season, which I think has been a key factor in the QB problem and Ainge's issues. At this point I could care less who is QB as long as Fulmer stops flopping. it's clearly part of the problem and only continuing the problem is poor leadership in my book.

 

[Liper]

Originally posted by vol75@Nov 14, 2005 1:10 PM
No, I didn't disagree. I am glad that you are one who supports and athletic QB. I have been around this sport all my life and the QB's who don't fit the mold of a pure passer always have to deal with the negative, much like Vick.

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My QB looks like this:

1. Mind
2. Arm
3. Mobility

Occasionally, someone comes along so talented in one or more areas that they overcome something. Vick overcomes shortcomings in #1 and #2 because of #3. I would say he is off the charts on #3, eratic on #2, and below average on #1. As he develops more in the #1, he can become a truly great QB. Until then, he is hot and cold.

I still contend that, as the level of play increases, the ability the read defenses, manage the game, and throw the ball accurately define a great QB. Mobility is a bonus.

 

[Liper]

CSpinndizzy,

I'll just end with this: 2/3 of our team is shambles right now, and I don't think a great QB would end it. However, better QB play would clearly help fix it. I think RC is a good stop-gap right now, whereas EA makes things worse, IMO. That's about where I am on it.

 

[Jasongivm6]

Originally posted by vol75@Nov 14, 2005 11:44 AM
The PAC-10 lacks speed. The SEC and the ACC has pro-style speed.  Now Texas has some of that same speed and that is why Vince Young will smoke the USC defense in the title game. Can you dig it?

Don't hate on speed. Everyone can't have it. Its's only for the blessed few.

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Yes buddy, I can "dig it." I know the SEC is a tougher conference than the Pac 10. I already KNOW that the SEC has more speed than the Pac 10. As far as "Don't hate on speed", you're preaching to the choir. You know, there are some people on this board that don't need to be told or taught what you're saying.

But your point was that you need a mobile QB to be successful in college.

You're wrong.

Matt Leinhart's not mobile. Carson Palmer wasn't mobile. Peyton Manning wasn't mobile. Tom Brady's not mobile. Etc., Etc., Etc.


If the SEC are the "blessed" few, than why aren't we dominating those "unfortunate" slow teams?