AJ Johnson baptized (video)

#51
#51
falling short and choosing to end another life are not the same and there's literally nothing that can be said to the contrary
 
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#53
#53
kiddiedoc said:
Reference Saul, later renamed "Paul."
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look, I'm not saying that a murderer can't honestly repent and turn his life around and become a good person and get to heaven

I'm simply saying that there is a difference between flipping off a guy in traffic and drugging a girl at a party and raping her while she's passed out

Also Paul admitted to his sins and repented and worked his entire life to make amends for all the wrongs he did, even to the extent that his own life was taken
 
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#54
#54
crusse10 said:
look, I'm not saying that a murderer can't honestly repent and turn his life around and become a good person and get to heaven

I'm simply saying that there is a difference between flipping off a guy in traffic and drugging a girl at a party and raping her while she's passed out

Also Paul admitted to his sins and repented and worked his entire life to make amends for all the wrongs he did, even to the extent that his own life was taken
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To the first bolded statement above, I think everyone would agree with you... from a secular perspective. But those are our views, not necessarily God's.

And concerning the secondary bolded section above, if you think Paul "worked to make amends for his wrongs" then you need to go back and read his letters as that was not his message.
 
#55
#55
IBlvNTmWrk said:
To the first bolded statement above, I think everyone would agree with you... from a secular perspective. But those are our views, not necessarily God's.

And concerning the secondary bolded section above, if you think Paul "worked to make amends for his wrongs" then you need to go back and read his letters as that was not his message.
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You're right. I was quick to write that. It doesn't change the fact that his entire life was turned around, that he admitted to what he did and made amends for it, and died for his religion.

He didn't just get converted and rest on his laurels while never admitting he did wrong.

And do you really think God would not agree with that? Cause yikes...
 
#56
#56
crusse10 said:
look, I'm not saying that a murderer can't honestly repent and turn his life around and become a good person and get to heaven

I'm simply saying that there is a difference between flipping off a guy in traffic and drugging a girl at a party and raping her while she's passed out

Also Paul admitted to his sins and repented and worked his entire life to make amends for all the wrongs he did, even to the extent that his own life was taken
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Saying that Paul "worked" to make amends affirms that you completely missed the Message.
 
#57
#57
Point is: we all fall short. We all need His Grace. Once we are called and accept His forgiveness, we are all saved and in the same standing. Obviously, the laws of the world will determine our guilt and punishment here, but there is no such system in Heaven.
 
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#58
#58
kiddiedoc said:
Point is: we all fall short. We all need His Grace. Once we are called and accept His forgiveness, we are all saved and in the same standing. Obviously, the laws of the world will determine our guilt and punishment here, but there is no such system in Heaven.
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I vehemently disagree. I'm not even talking about the laws of the world. I'm talking about being a good person. If you do atrocious things and never admit to doing them and never make a move to be forgiven for them, then you are in no way deserving of everlasting life, whether you went through a sham baptism or not.
 
#59
#59
crusse10 said:
You're right. I was quick to write that. It doesn't change the fact that his entire life was turned around, that he admitted to what he did and made amends for it, and died for his religion.

He didn't just get converted and rest on his laurels while never admitting he did wrong.

And do you really think God would not agree with that? Cause yikes...
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Fair enough. And as far as what I think God might agree with... my initial thought is that it can sometimes be difficult to understand God from a humanistic perspective. And as far as admitting to doing something wrong, sure... I believe one should own up to their mistakes.

But that is different than feeling one has to "work" to amend their wrongs. Should we feel bad when we do something wrong? Sure. But it can also be a slippery slope in that sometimes people can allow their guilt to prevent them from having a relationship with Christ as they may believe they are not worthy and are no longer loved. Thankfully - that is not what the gift of grace tells us.
 
#60
#60
IBlvNTmWrk said:
Fair enough. And as far as what I think God might agree with... my initial thought is that it can sometimes be difficult to understand God from a humanistic perspective. And as far as admitting to doing something wrong, sure... I believe one should own up to their mistakes.

But that is different than feeling one has to "work" to amend their wrongs. Should we feel bad when we do something wrong? Sure. But it can also be a slippery slope in that sometimes people can allow their guilt to prevent them from having a relationship with Christ as they may believe they are not worthy and are no longer loved. Thankfully - that is not what the gift of grace tells us.
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My initial implication of working to amend the wrongs was to admit to what you did, accept the consequences, ask for forgiveness, and turn to God. If you 100% to your core mean all of that, then you have done right for the first time. God will forgive that. After all, as I said, his hand is forever outstretched. However if you only mean that stuff 90%, then you aren't stretching your hand 100% of the way and it's your fault. God's hand is there, but selfishness in this life is preventing you from eternal life, sham Baptism or not.
 
#61
#61
crusse10 said:
I vehemently disagree. I'm not even talking about the laws of the world. I'm talking about being a good person. If you do atrocious things and never admit to doing them and never make a move to be forgiven for them, then you are in no way deserving of everlasting life, whether you went through a sham baptism or not.
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I would agree to that. But, I have no knowledge that AJ has not confessed his sins (whatever they may be) to God nor that his baptism was a sham.

I will readily admit that I am not a "good person," and it is only by His mercy that I count myself among His children.
 
#62
#62
crusse10 said:
My initial implication of working to amend the wrongs was to admit to what you did, accept the consequences, ask for forgiveness, and turn to God. If you 100% to your core mean all of that, then you have done right for the first time. God will forgive that. After all, as I said, his hand is forever outstretched. However if you only mean that stuff 90%, then you aren't stretching your hand 100% of the way and it's your fault. God's hand is there, but selfishness in this life is preventing you from eternal life, sham Baptism or not.
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I think we are really close to agreeing, but you have already decided that he is guilty and has admitted no wrong. That's obviously out of our hands.
 
#63
#63
kiddiedoc said:
I would agree to that. But, I have no knowledge that AJ has not confessed his sins (whatever they may be) to God nor that his baptism was a sham.

I will readily admit that I am not a "good person," and it is only by His mercy that I count myself among His children.
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Which is why, from the very beginning, I said "if he did it." If he raped that girl but he maintains his innocence until his death, then this Baptism didn't absolve him of that sin. And worse, he would have lied every day of his life. There's no way that God would welcome a rapist and liar into the Kingdom of Heaven if he could never even admit to his sins.
 
#64
#64
The reasoning behind my first message was that someone said that no matter what, because of this baptism, AJ is good with God. Everything I have written has been based on that first post I responded to
 
#65
#65
crusse10 said:
Which is why, from the very beginning, I said "if he did it." If he raped that girl but he maintains his innocence until his death, then this Baptism didn't absolve him of that sin. And worse, he would have lied every day of his life. There's no way that God would welcome a rapist and liar into the Kingdom of Heaven if he could never even admit to his sins.
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Once again, you claim neutral ground yet everything you write following it contradicts it. I'd rather you openly admit you think he's guilty than to try and dance around it and pretend like you're neutral.
 
#66
#66
Coug said:
Once again, you claim neutral ground yet everything you write following it contradicts it. I'd rather you openly admit you think he's guilty than to try and dance around it and pretend like you're neutral.
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The initial statement I responded to discussed that no matter what the situation was, that he was good with God. Since he left it open to anything, I responded with a scenario that refutes his claim. Why does it matter if I think he's guilty or innocent? My prior assumptions don't change the fact that I read something in this thread that is completely moronic and I refuted it with a possible scenario that highlights the flaw
 
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#67
#67
n_huffhines said:
I hope the publizity stunt works out for him.
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this could be what he is trying to accomplish,many a criminal has done the same thing,I know of one specifically,that I won't name

and no,nothing to do with UT sports

if he has done this crime and I did say if,I hope he gets the full weight of the Law on his shoulders,instead of some jurors going,oh but he was Baptized
 
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#68
#68
crusse10 said:
Which is why, from the very beginning, I said "if he did it." If he raped that girl but he maintains his innocence until his death, then this Baptism didn't absolve him of that sin. And worse, he would have lied every day of his life. There's no way that God would welcome a rapist and liar into the Kingdom of Heaven if he could never even admit to his sins.
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Does he have to admit it to us? Let's say, hypothetically, he did rape this girl. What if he goes to her and sincerely apologizes. She forgives him and drops the charges. He then goes before God on his knees and asks for forgiveness, repents, and lives a life worthy of the Kingdom.

You and I are not judges of this life. If he has been forgiven by the one he wronged and admitted his sin before God, does he owe any of us a "yes I did it?"
 
#69
#69
VolFan32 said:
Does he have to admit it to us? Let's say, hypothetically, he did rape this girl. What if he goes to her and sincerely apologizes. She forgives him and drops the charges. He then goes before God on his knees and asks for forgiveness, repents, and lives a life worthy of the Kingdom.

You and I are not judges of this life. If he has been forgiven by the one he wronged and admitted his sin before God, does he owe any of us a "yes I did it?"
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A few things
  • In that scenario, she would forever be deemed a liar. People on this board would rip her to shreds. People would take her withdrawing her complaint as an admission of guilt on her part. She would be deemed a slut who just wanted to hurt AJ.
  • AJ would be considered the unjustly harmed innocent person. Other girls down the line are now able to be preyed on.
  • She would forever be considered untrustworthy in the eyes of the law. If something ever involved her down the line, this would come up to prove that she shouldn't be trusted.
So all in all, IF HE DID IT, I think the way you've set up this scenario is terrible. The victim becomes even more battered by the barrage of doubters who believe they've been vindicated in their unjust assumptions. The assailant is treated as the hero who was unfairly accused. He can then possibly sue her for character defamation to reclaim the lost money he'd have gotten for being drafted (or drafted higher). And possibly worst of all, because a rapist walks without being branded a rapist, other women become at risk if he relapses.
 
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#70
#70
VolnTitan said:
If he is found guilty of what he is accused of, I can say with 100% certainty that his "sin" is worse than any sin I may have committed. 100%. Being baptized doesn't change that.
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All sin is weighted the same in the eyes of the lord.
 
#72
#72
crusse10 said:
The end of 1 John disagrees with you
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Yes john talks about murder but regardless of our interpretation of the bible it is neither yours or my job to judge AJ. You said earlier that it didnt matter how many time he's been baptized if didn't admit to this crime. Baptism is being a way of showing obedience to what gods word has called us to do once we receive Jesus as our lord and savior, which can only come by confessing your sins and asking them to be forgiven. So I can only assume that you assume AJ was not sincere in his Baptism which is again not your job to judge. So with that being said since you seem to be so hard on the subject at hand I will leave you with this. John 8:7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her."

Then you will probably say you know all about the book of John, so then I would encourage you to practice it!
 
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#73
#73
Volsfaninva917 said:
Yes john talks about murder but regardless of our interpretation of the bible it is neither yours or my job to judge AJ. You said earlier that it didnt matter how many time he's been baptized if didn't admit to this crime. Baptism is being a way of showing obedience to what gods word has called us to do once we receive Jesus as our lord and savior, which can only come by confessing your sins and asking them to be forgiven. So I can only assume that you assume AJ was not sincere in his Baptism which is again not your job to judge. So with that being said since you seem to be so hard on the subject at hand I will leave you with this. John 8:7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her."

Then you will probably say you know all about the book of John, so then I would encourage you to practice it!
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So since he was baptized on Sunday and he hasn't entered a guilty plea, you are 100% sure that the only options are that the baptism was a sham OR he didn't do it?

Also, do you refute that it talks about the gravity of the sin being different?
 
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#74
#74
crusse10 said:
So since he was baptized on Sunday and he hasn't entered a guilty plea, you are 100% sure that the only options are that the baptism was a sham OR he didn't do it?
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I'm saying you are assuming his baptism wasn't sincere. By reading your post your saying if he is found guilty of the crime than he no longer has gods grace which is entirely false. If we were all one and dones with God then you and me would both be packing for an eternity of hell. I don't know if AJ did it or not, he has answered to a higher power and that's all that matters in the end. If the allegations are true do I feel for the girl and her family? Sure I do without a doubt and should he be criminally punished? Absolutely he should be, but he won't be spiritually punish and once again in the end that's all that matters.
 
#75
#75
Volsfaninva917 said:
I'm saying you are assuming his baptism wasn't sincere. By reading your post your saying if he is found guilty of the crime than he no longer has gods grace which is entirely false. If we were all one and dones with God then you and me would both be packing for an eternity of hell. I don't know if AJ did it or not, he has answered to a higher power and that's all that matters in the end. If the allegations are true do I feel for the girl and her family? Sure I do without a doubt and should he be criminally punished? Absolutely he should be, but he won't be spiritually punish and once again in the end that's all that matters.
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Again, baptism and a profession of faith is not a Get Out Of Jail Free card. It just doesn't work that way. If you don't admit to your sins and repent and seek forgiveness, you aren't forthright in your actions from the get go. And that, God knows. If he did it and never comes clean, God will not look on those actions favorably. I'm honestly shocked that you're arguing against the stance that being a good person and admitting your faults is a prereq to heaven.
 
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