'22 AL S Jourdan Thomas (Tennessee signee)

#176
#176
GregAmsler said:
Here’s a list of 5 “not good football players,” according to BigOrangeVols:

1. Lamar Jackson, Ravens QB.
2. Russell Wilson, Seahawks QB.
3. Aaron Donald, Rams DE.
4. Patrick Mahomes, Chiefs QB.
5. Michael Thomas, Saints WR

All 3* recruits. Possibly the 5 best players in the NFL.
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I understand this argument but the fact of the matter is Alabama has dominated for over a decade now by landing the highly ranked kids. Look at UGA, most of their starters were 5 and 4 stars. It matters. We are going to have to start winning to attract the talent here, but let’s not act like the rankings are meaningless, the stats show differently.
 
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#177
#177
Berry4Heisman14 said:
I understand this argument but the fact of the matter is Alabama has dominated for over a decade now by landing the highly ranked kids. Look at UGA, most of their starters were 5 and 4 stars. It matters. We are going to have to start winning to attract the talent here, but let’s not act like the rankings are meaningless, the stats show differently.
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More often than not, the most talented team wins with everything else being equal. A service that rates said talent in high school isn't the end of the story though. Butch Jones' teams were a perfect example of that. Most people would think it would be impossible to beat UF and UGA in the same season, but not win the east. Of course, Butch managed to do just that. Recruiting services are a decent guideline, but they are also biased. How many times have you seen players get major bumps after committing to Bama, UGA, or theOSU. Those players didn't gain anymore talent. The assumption is that those players will be developed to outplay their initial rank. Yes, Heupel will have to recruit at a high level for sustained success, but he must also trust his own evaluations to get there.
 
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#182
#182
Berry4Heisman14 said:
I understand this argument but the fact of the matter is Alabama has dominated for over a decade now by landing the highly ranked kids. Look at UGA, most of their starters were 5 and 4 stars. It matters. We are going to have to start winning to attract the talent here, but let’s not act like the rankings are meaningless, the stats show differently.
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That’s a different debate, one that Bigl3327 covers pretty well.

But to say that 3* players are not good football players is such a broad, sweeping, ignorant statement…

Let’s also acknowledge that, as Bigl mentions, many of these rankings are reactionary. If a kid is offered by and signs with Bama, he’s going to get ranked higher. If that same kid signs with Iowa State, he won’t get a bump. Clemson won two National Titles with classes ranked in the 10-15 range. Then they started signing top 3 classes (probably because the websites started bumping players Clemson wanted after Dabo established that reputation) and now they’re not winning NC’s.

There are a lot of really good football players out there who are ranked 3*, 4*, and 5*. Know what? There are also some “not good” players out there in each of those categories (yes, even the 5* category). We need Heupel & staff to identify who the GOOD ones and sign
them, avoiding the bad ones, regardless of ranking. That’s his job. And he’s better at evaluating which players are going to be good for his system than the website nerds. He’s not basing his evaluations on which schools offer, but on what he himself sees.
 
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#183
#183
chattavol420 said:
Personally…I’d prefer us sign nothing but 2 stars from here on out because Cedric Tillman might be the best talent at receiver I can ever remember suiting up for us. And I’m not even joking.

Ok…I actually am joking about us only signing 2 stars of course. But I’m damn sure not joking about Tillman maybe being the most talented receiver I can remember playing for us.
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Then your either really old and have lost your memory or you haven’t been following the Vols very long and in no way is that a knock against Tillman who is a fine receiver
 
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#185
#185
tnvols72 said:
At least come back and defend this dumb comment. Cause this is the dumbest post in the thread.
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I'm here. I'd like to flip this to everyone else. Prove to me that 3 stars are good football players besides just cherry picking your favorite 3 star athletes in the NFL. I'll wait.
 
#187
#187
Berry4Heisman14 said:
I understand this argument but the fact of the matter is Alabama has dominated for over a decade now by landing the highly ranked kids. Look at UGA, most of their starters were 5 and 4 stars. It matters. We are going to have to start winning to attract the talent here, but let’s not act like the rankings are meaningless, the stats show differently.
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Have they? Do you think they checked with 247 and then decided to pursue highly talented kids? Or is it not a little more likely that the recruiting websites take notice of who teams with proven recruiting success are after?

If you have two kids playing the same position from GA that by all objective measures look pretty even and one is offered by Bama and UGA and the other is not... which one do you think gets the extra star?

The rankings to a large extent are self-fulfilling prophecies. Saban is great at identifying talent so talent he identifies rightly or wrongly... gets a bump.

There are at LEAST as many missed kids with 4/5* talent in any given class as there are kids who are given 4/5*.

Bama has been dominant not because they've had highly ranked class but they've been dominant AND had highly ranked classes in part because they know how to find talent. That may not seem to be an important distinction but it is. Agreeing with Saban does NOT validate a recruiting site's ability to recognize top talent.

The truth is that every year there are WAY more than enough underrated 3* players to build a championship caliber roster if a coach has the ability to recognize that talent. Few have done it. Dabo did. But that's the shortest path to being successful again. MANY coaches have tried, and failed, to go head to head with Bama for the players Bama wants because they're convinced those players are uniquely talented and elite.
 
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#191
#191
sjt18 said:
Have they? Do you think they checked with 247 and then decided to pursue highly talented kids? Or is it not a little more likely that the recruiting websites take notice of who teams with proven recruiting success are after?

If you have two kids playing the same position from GA that by all objective measures look pretty even and one is offered by Bama and UGA and the other is not... which one do you think gets the extra star?

The rankings to a large extent are self-fulfilling prophecies. Saban is great at identifying talent so talent he identifies rightly or wrongly... gets a bump.

There are at LEAST as many missed kids with 4/5* talent in any given class as there are kids who are given 4/5*.

Bama has been dominant not because they've had highly ranked class but they've been dominant AND had highly ranked classes in part because they know how to find talent. That may not seem to be an important distinction but it is. Agreeing with Saban does NOT validate a recruiting site's ability to recognize top talent.

The truth is that every year there are WAY more than enough underrated 3* players to build a championship caliber roster if a coach has the ability to recognize that talent. Few have done it. Dabo did. But that's the shortest path to being successful again. MANY coaches have tried, and failed, to go head to head with Bama for the players Bama wants because they're convinced those players are uniquely talented and elite.
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Everyone needs to read this. It’s spot-on balls accurate. I would just add this…a kid whose talents are well-suited for one system isn’t always as well-suited for a other. So a kid who might be a 3* to Bama might be a 5* to Tennessee. Which is another flaw with these rankings.

Then there’s the development aspect…
 
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#193
#193
GregAmsler said:
You’ve already been proven wrong. You just don’t realize it.
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Go through our recruiting classes the past 10 years and tell me how many 3*'s have even contributed in those classes. Just checked 2014-2016. About 3 out of 10-12 3 star recruits in each class made a contribution. The others had almost 0 contributions.
 
#194
#194
BigOrangeVols said:
Go through our recruiting classes the past 10 years and tell me how many 3*'s have even contributed in those classes. Just checked 2014-2016. About 3 out of 10-12 3 star recruits in each class made a contribution. The others had almost 0 contributions.
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“Prove to me that my statement that 3*s aren’t good football players isn’t true without going back showing me the 3*s who became good football players.”-you, in a prior post

You made a huge, sweeping statement that 3* players aren’t good. You didn’t say some. You didn’t say many. You flat-out said that a kid who is rated 3*s is not a good football player. MANY MANY MANY have become good enough to play in and star in the NFL. That’s a good football player.

So you are wrong. You have been proven wrong. You lose. A man should know when he is beaten. 👋
 
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#195
#195
BigOrangeVols said:
No, I don't care for cherry picking stats and you could just copy and paste from other posters.
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You mean the ones that proved you wrong by showing that there are 3*s who are good football players? Yeah, he could do that, but he would just be doing what others already did…prove you wrong.
 
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#197
#197
GregAmsler said:
“Prove to me that my statement that 3*s aren’t good football players isn’t true without going back showing me the 3*s who became good football players.”-you, in a prior post

You made a huge, sweeping statement that 3* players aren’t good. You didn’t say some. You didn’t say many. You flat-out said that a kid who is rated 3*s is not a good football player. MANY MANY MANY have become good enough to play in and star in the NFL. That’s a good football player.

So you are wrong. You have been proven wrong. You lose. A man should know when he is beaten. 👋
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That's just bad logic. If posting a list of 3* players that are good football players makes my statement false, then me posting a list of 3* players that did nothing here and are bad football players would also make my statement true. Who has the larger list?
 
#198
#198
GregAmsler said:
“Prove to me that my statement that 3*s aren’t good football players isn’t true without going back showing me the 3*s who became good football players.”-you, in a prior post

You made a huge, sweeping statement that 3* players aren’t good. You didn’t say some. You didn’t say many. You flat-out said that a kid who is rated 3*s is not a good football player. MANY MANY MANY have become good enough to play in and star in the NFL. That’s a good football player.

So you are wrong. You have been proven wrong. You lose. A man should know when he is beaten. 👋
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He’s a troll
 
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