Amanda Knox

[butchna]

That statement reads very much like someone in shock who's undergone a rough police interrogation. Foreign country, foreign language, foreign police, accused of a crime she maintains throughout she didn't commit, would you expect something different from a scared young lady?

Thanks Weezer...and I'd add sleep deprivation to the pick and choose translations they provided to a 20 year old girl...playing "statements" from her boyfriend against her to get SOMETHING resembling a confession...TOTAL GARBAGE...anybody familiar with the phenomenon of false confessions? Google it before you sit down with a glass of wine to indulge in the Massei report...I CAN give you an example case...in Dallas,circa 1980s,a young girl closing a Pizza Hut franchise was brutally raped and murdered...this was before DNA testing was established of course...two buddies were brought in for questioning due to their excessive questions at the crime scene....they were interrogated continuously for 17 hours without breaks until one confessed and implicated his friend...they were given life sentences,and would still be there if the real killer hadn't got religion while in prison for another crime,and confessed...the false confessor was so distrustful that he wouldn't change his confession until video of the coaching in his interrogation came to light...the two were freed but the one that NEVER admitted guilt was assaulted in prison and is mentally disabled...the false confessor is an ATTORNEY...they received millions via settlement with the State of Texas...and they were interrogated IN THEIR OWN LANGUAGE...sorry for the excessive text in this post but the only thing that post of Sand's accomplished was highlight what a Salem Witch Trial this Italian court is conducting.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[davethevol]

Sandvol, you definitely haven't read these reports or fully comprehend them. You told me to read a specific report on this case a few weeks back to get the answer on her guilt. I read the report and guess what: it cleared Amanda Knox and her boyfriend and pointed all of the evidence to the drifter. There is a reason Amanda Knox's DNA was only found on the knife.

 

[butchna]

You're a mod, can I write a really long Weezer Report thread detailing the idiocy of Sand, that way we'll always have something to bring up when he goes off on his wild conspiracy theories? It'll help if everyone else recognizes my brilliance when referring to said report as well.

You write it and I'll be your Sandvol. :devilsmoke:

 

[Sandvol]

Sandvol, you definitely haven't read these reports or fully comprehend them. You told me to read a specific report on this case a few weeks back to get the answer on her guilt. I read the report and guess what: it cleared Amanda Knox and her boyfriend and pointed all of the evidence to the drifter. There is a reason Amanda Knox's DNA was only found on the knife.

Dave,
Which report did you read? I would only mention one of four reports: the Massei Report, the Micheli Report, the Hellmann Report, or the Supreme Court of Cassation Report. The Micheli report was only a little over 100 pages. It was the sentencing report for Guede's conviction. It wasn't that Guede fingered Knox or Sollecito but the trial judge recommended in his report that Knox and Sollecito be tried for the same murder. There was no indication in the report that Guede implicated or said anything.

 

[Sandvol]

This is a statement from someone who barely spoke Italian at the time. There's even an illegible notation. Not even remotely a confession. Is there any "factual" information you would like to share?

Yes Potato, the Massei Report. All the factual information is in there.

 

[Sandvol]

For the love of God, Sand you are a complete idiot. Do you believe everything you read on the internet? I could create some 400 page blog post about this case extolling Amanda Knox's immocence and put it out there for all to read. It wouldn't make it accurate. These reports you love to laud about, if they contain evidence that prove Knox's guilt, why hasn't the media mentioned them? And please, let's not pretend it's some vast media cover up because we both know that isn't the case. If they could prove she was a sociopath, which she would have to be to commit this murder over such a flimsy motive, the media would be all over this like sharks. No, what we have here is a case that was completely bungled from the very beginning and a govt that is trying to save face and convince the world this bad, little American girl, "Foxy Knoxy" masterminded a brutal killing because her roommate was mad that some dude in the apartment didn't flush the toilet after taking a deuce. Honestly, I get mad when I walk in on that too, but I've never killed anyone over it. Get a grip on reality. The only non-corrupted DNA evidence collected at the crime scene, other than the victims, clearly implicates Rudy Guede, who conveniently made up a story about Knox and her bf being involved after a little talk with prosecutors and a promise of a lighter sentence.

I don't really mean to get under your skin so easily. So Guede's DNA was the only non-corrupted DNA found at the crime scene? How'd that happen? Let me ask you a couple other questions: How did Guede commit the murder because by all accounts he was with Knox and Sollecito the night of the murder? Also, if Guede committed the murder alone why and how did he stage the break-in in the adjacent bedroom? Another, why would Knox falsely accuse Lumumba?

 

[Sandvol]

Thanks Weezer...and I'd add sleep deprivation to the pick and choose translations they provided to a 20 year old girl...playing "statements" from her boyfriend against her to get SOMETHING resembling a confession...TOTAL GARBAGE...anybody familiar with the phenomenon of false confessions? Google it before you sit down with a glass of wine to indulge in the Massei report...I CAN give you an example case...in Dallas,circa 1980s,a young girl closing a Pizza Hut franchise was brutally raped and murdered...this was before DNA testing was established of course...two buddies were brought in for questioning due to their excessive questions at the crime scene....they were interrogated continuously for 17 hours without breaks until one confessed and implicated his friend...they were given life sentences,and would still be there if the real killer hadn't got religion while in prison for another crime,and confessed...the false confessor was so distrustful that he wouldn't change his confession until video of the coaching in his interrogation came to light...the two were freed but the one that NEVER admitted guilt was assaulted in prison and is mentally disabled...the false confessor is an ATTORNEY...they received millions via settlement with the State of Texas...and they were interrogated IN THEIR OWN LANGUAGE...sorry for the excessive text in this post but the only thing that post of Sand's accomplished was highlight what a Salem Witch Trial this Italian court is conducting.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

That's actually another myth of the case. Knox accompanied Sollecito to the police station around 11:00 pm. They were only interested in talking to Sollecito but when Sollecito withdrew Knox's alibi about being with him the night of the murder they decided to question her too. They called the interpreter Donnino about 11:30pm and she didn't arrive until 12:30am. According to Donnino's testimony they were a little rough (not physically) with Knox (as police tend to be when they are trying to solve a heinous murder) and that is when Knox quickly changed her story and accused her boss Lumumba when the police told her Sollecito withdrew her alibi. They had her statement typed, prepared and signed by 1:45am. So the most she could have been questioned was about an hour and there were only two officers present, both female, and an interpreter.

P.S.-Isn't it kind of convenient that the one she accused was also black like Guede?

 

[Sandvol]

This case alone gave us a murder scene investigated by post office cops and a prosecutor who had a history of previously believing in satanic conspiracies and who was later convicted of corruption. Not putting too much stock in the possibility of brilliance in the Italian legal system.

Post Office Cops? You're cracking me up. Are you referring to the Postal Police who came to the apartment asking about Kercher's cell phone that was found? Sorry to tell you this but they didn't investigate the murder. That was the extent of their involvement. Those were some pretty dumb criminals. Everything they did implicated themselves. (They discarded her phones near Guede and Sollecito's appartments so Meredith couldn't call the police. There had to be some premeditation there too because they turned off their cell phones around 8:42 pm the night of the murder so their whereabouts couldn't be tracked but they didn't realize the police could investigate their internet traffic. Pretty stupid.

 

[Sandvol]

Most people don't realize the two defendants Knox and Sollecito were at odds with each other. For four years Sollecito maintained that Knox left his apartment around 9:00 pm the night of the murder and Knox at first said she was with Sollecito all night. Then when Sollecito wouldn't support her alibi that is when she claimed she was there when the murder occurred and Lumumba did it. Then when Lumumba's alibi was confirmed (after two weeks in jail) she went back to she was with Sollecito but by all accounts he never supported her story. He was trying to save his ass, to hell with his girlfriend.



P.S.-I was like you guys were when this case came out. I thought it was an American girl wrongly accused by a bunch of American hating Italian keystone cops. I felt that way for a long time based on the accounts in the press. And, even during the trial you really didn't get a clear picture of the facts of the case because they are not released to the public. Then several weeks after the case when the Massei sentencing report was issued it all started to change for me. That is when I realized Knox was someone other than who the American media accounts portrayed. She will be extradited and she will go to prison. The circus around this will be entertaining.

 

[butchna]

Post Office Cops? You're cracking me up. Are you referring to the Postal Police who came to the apartment asking about Kercher's cell phone that was found? Sorry to tell you this but they didn't investigate the murder. That was the extent of their involvement. Those were some pretty dumb criminals. Everything they did implicated themselves. (They discarded her phones near Guede and Sollecito's appartments so Meredith couldn't call the police. There had to be some premeditation there too because they turned off their cell phones around 8:42 pm the night of the murder so their whereabouts couldn't be tracked but they didn't realize the police could investigate their internet traffic. Pretty stupid.

So the cleanliness incident that escalated was also premeditated?...what part of the report includes alien mind control? :alien:
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[Vercingetorix]

Most people don't realize the two defendants Knox and Sollecito were at odds with each other. For four years Sollecito maintained that Knox left his apartment around 9:00 pm the night of the murder and Knox at first said she was with Sollecito all night. Then when Sollecito wouldn't support her alibi that is when she claimed she was there when the murder occurred and Lumumba did it. Then when Lumumba's alibi was confirmed (after two weeks in jail) she went back to she was with Sollecito but by all accounts he never supported her story. He was trying to save his ass, to hell with his girlfriend.



P.S.-I was like you guys were when this case came out. I thought it was an American girl wrongly accused by a bunch of American hating Italian keystone cops. I felt that way for a long time based on the accounts in the press. And, even during the trial you really didn't get a clear picture of the facts of the case because they are not released to the public. Then several weeks after the case when the Massei sentencing report was issued it all started to change for me. That is when I realized Knox was someone other than who the American media accounts portrayed. She will be extradited and she will go to prison. The circus around this will be entertaining.

Knox and Sollecito both originally maintained they were both at his apartment all night. Until, of course, the cops separated them and interrogated them all night long without a lawyer (in Knox's case at least) so they could play the couple off against each other. It's a textbook example of why cops aren't allowed to coerce confessions out of people in this country. An American grand jury would have laughed at the case against them. I don't care whether Knox is pretty or what kind of person she is; there is no criminal case against her that would ever have been taken seriously in a country with a civilized justice system.

 

[Sandvol]

Knox and Sollecito both originally maintained they were both at his apartment all night. Until, of course, the cops separated them and interrogated them all night long without a lawyer (in Knox's case at least) so they could play the couple off against each other. It's a textbook example of why cops aren't allowed to coerce confessions out of people in this country. An American grand jury would have laughed at the case against them. I don't care whether Knox is pretty or what kind of person she is; there is no criminal case against her that would ever have been taken seriously in a country with a civilized justice system.

This is from my post above:

That's actually another myth of the case. Knox accompanied Sollecito to the police station around 11:00 pm. They were only interested in talking to Sollecito but when Sollecito withdrew Knox's alibi about being with him the night of the murder they decided to question her too. They called the interpreter Donnino about 11:30pm and she didn't arrive until 12:30am. According to Donnino's testimony they were a little rough (not physically) with Knox (as police tend to be when they are trying to solve a heinous murder) and that is when Knox quickly changed her story and accused her boss Lumumba when the police told her Sollecito withdrew her alibi. They had her statement typed, prepared and signed by 1:45am. So the most she could have been questioned was about an hour and there were only two officers present, both female, and an interpreter.

P.S.-Once she implicated herself the police immediately stopped questioning her because they considered her a suspect. One thing I have learned about this case is that Italian police are even more respectful of the rights of defendants than American police. The Judge Massei threw out her 1:45 and 4:45 statements but allowed her handwritten note for all the world to see because she had been sufficiently told that she had the right to an attorney.

 

[Sandvol]

So the cleanliness incident that escalated was also premeditated?...what part of the report includes alien mind control? :alien:
Posted via VolNation Mobile

How do you explain the knife from Sollecito's apartment as the murder weapon? It was a kitchen knife and was cleaned and in the drawer at Sollecito's apartment. It had to be premeditatedly carried to the girl's cottage. There were several issues between the girls that Guede talked about in an e-mail he sent while he was in Germany like cleanliness and Meredith believing Knox was stealing from her.

 

[Weezer]

This is from my post above:

That's actually another myth of the case. Knox accompanied Sollecito to the police station around 11:00 pm. They were only interested in talking to Sollecito but when Sollecito withdrew Knox's alibi about being with him the night of the murder they decided to question her too. They called the interpreter Donnino about 11:30pm and she didn't arrive until 12:30am. According to Donnino's testimony they were a little rough (not physically) with Knox (as police tend to be when they are trying to solve a heinous murder) and that is when Knox quickly changed her story and accused her boss Lumumba when the police told her Sollecito withdrew her alibi. They had her statement typed, prepared and signed by 1:45am. So the most she could have been questioned was about an hour and there were only two officers present, both female, and an interpreter.

P.S.-Once she implicated herself the police immediately stopped questioning her because they considered her a suspect. One thing I have learned about this case is that Italian police are even more respectful of the rights of defendants than American police. The Judge Massei threw out her 1:45 and 4:45 statements but allowed her handwritten note for all the world to see because she had been sufficiently told that she had the right to an attorney.

This timeline is provided by who exactly? Obviously, the police have a vested interest in protecting their own asses, the defendants have a vested interest in protecting theirs, so who is the outside third party with no vested interest that corroborates this time frame? Oh, that's right, there isn't one. We're meant to trust what the police and the prosecution maintain as "facts". Hey, wait a minute, didn't I read somewhere that the initial lead prosecutor was caught up in some kind of scandal? And that's basically the source of what you purport as "fact". Yep, makes perfect sense. Let me guess, somewhere on the internet is a 500 page report I need to read that exonerates him and extolls his virtues as someone who wouldn't use his influence to create false testimony.

The Italian justice system is archaic, and at this point, they're just trying to save face and hide their complete incompetence in this case. The sad thing is, should the Italian govt seek extradition now, O would probably tell Kerry to sign off on it and let it happen. I say fawk that. If they want her, I send a team of US investigators to look over their "evidence" and talk to witnesses. If they find sufficient evidence to prove guilt, then I'll stop defending her, but given how mishandled this case was, there's no way in hell sufficient evidence exists.

 

[Weezer]

How do you explain the knife from Sollecito's apartment as the murder weapon? It was a kitchen knife and was cleaned and in the drawer at Sollecito's apartment. It had to be premeditatedly carried to the girl's cottage. There were several issues between the girls that Guede talked about in an e-mail he sent while he was in Germany like cleanliness and Meredith believing Knox was stealing from her.

The reports I've read, mind you not from some Italian judge with a vested interest in the case, maintain it was never proven that the knife from the bf's apt was the murder weapon. The police speculated that it was, which just happenned to support their view of what happenned. Funny how you can make "facts" fit the theories you choose to believe.

 

[Sandvol]

This timeline is provided by who exactly? Obviously, the police have a vested interest in protecting their own asses, the defendants have a vested interest in protecting theirs, so who is the outside third party with no vested interest that corroborates this time frame? Oh, that's right, there isn't one. We're meant to trust what the police and the prosecution maintain as "facts". Hey, wait a minute, didn't I read somewhere that the initial lead prosecutor was caught up in some kind of scandal? And that's basically the source of what you purport as "fact". Yep, makes perfect sense. Let me guess, somewhere on the internet is a 500 page report I need to read that exonerates him and extolls his virtues as someone who wouldn't use his influence to create false testimony.

The Italian justice system is archaic, and at this point, they're just trying to save face and hide their complete incompetence in this case. The sad thing is, should the Italian govt seek extradition now, O would probably tell Kerry to sign off on it and let it happen. I say fawk that. If they want her, I send a team of US investigators to look over their "evidence" and talk to witnesses. If they find sufficient evidence to prove guilt, then I'll stop defending her, but given how mishandled this case was, there's no way in hell sufficient evidence exists.

Weeze,
Why do you believe the Italian Justice System is archaic when we have juries who find OJ not guilty and Casey Anthony not guilty? The Italian system has professional judges who apparently do everything they can to protect the accused. I was somewhat shocked at how lenient their system is. The timeline was not only established by police logs and records, but corroborated and verified by independent witnesses like the translator Donnini and more than that was affirmed by both Sollecito and Knox. It was only Knox's father and public relations team he hired who accused the police of harsh and tortuous interrogations. What reason would the police have to falsely accuse Knox and Sollecito? They apparently had their man in Guede. The answer is NONE.

 

[Sandvol]

The reports I've read, mind you not from some Italian judge with a vested interest in the case, maintain it was never proven that the knife from the bf's apt was the murder weapon. The police speculated that it was, which just happenned to support their view of what happenned. Funny how you can make "facts" fit the theories you choose to believe.

The only interest the Judge had was to see justice served. It was proven the knife was the murder weapon beyond a reasonable doubt if you take all the facts of the mortal wound, the imprint of the knife on the bed sheet, the DNA evidence of the knife, and that the knife had been cleaned by bleach.

This was from the transcripts of a jail cell conversation that Amanda was having with her parents on November 17. I guess they didn't realize they didn't have a right to privacy since they weren't her attorney when Amanda said, “I am very, I am very worried about this thing with the knife ... because there is a knife of Raffaele’s ...”.

 

[butchna]

How do you explain the knife from Sollecito's apartment as the murder weapon? It was a kitchen knife and was cleaned and in the drawer at Sollecito's apartment. It had to be premeditatedly carried to the girl's cottage. There were several issues between the girls that Guede talked about in an e-mail he sent while he was in Germany like cleanliness and Meredith believing Knox was stealing from her.

I would explain it as NOT THE MURDER WEAPON as established by a forensics expert at the appeal...because the wounds simply don't match it...so the spaghetti cowboy prosecutor shifts around and says that's because multiple knives were used in the murder so the wounds wouldn't match...but we'll maintain it as THE murder weapon since one HAS NEVER BEEN FOUND...smokeandmirrorssmokeandmirrors :no:
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[butchna]

The only interest the Judge had was to see justice served. It was proven the knife was the murder weapon beyond a reasonable doubt if you take all the facts of the mortal wound, the imprint of the knife on the bed sheet, the DNA evidence of the knife, and that the knife had been cleaned by bleach.

Imprint of the knife DIDN'T match Sellicito's knife...I know it's not as sexy as a Eurotrash Massei doc but Google some articles on this...it's easy
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[Sandvol]

I would explain it as NOT THE MURDER WEAPON as established by a forensics expert at the appeal...because the wounds simply don't match it...so the spaghetti cowboy prosecutor shifts around and says that's because multiple knives were used in the murder so the wounds wouldn't match...but we'll maintain it as THE murder weapon since one HAS NEVER BEEN FOUND...smokeandmirrorssmokeandmirrors :no:
Posted via VolNation Mobile

No the wounds on the left side of her throat were too small and apparently a smaller knife. The larger gaping wound did match the knife recovered from Sollecito's that did have the double DNA evidence. And, it also matched the blood imprint in the bed sheet.

 

[Sandvol]

knife:

 

[Sandvol]

Knife and bed sheet to scale:

 

[W.TN.Orange Blood]

knife:

ouch!!

 

[Sandvol]

and superimposed on the blood stain:

 

[volgrad500]

This is an honest question.
I promise it is not meant to be a smart ass comment.
I'm an attorney, and I'm very interested in what motivates people's (and possible jurors') interests
Here's my question:
Why do ya;ll care about this case so much? I'm amazed at the level of knowledge some of you guys have about the facts. What makes you so interested?