Amazon lands The Lord of the Rings TV series

[dalton_vol]

What a horrid show

 

[Jackcrevol]

What a horrid show

Dude, you are a miserable person.

 

[95 Vol Alum]

What a horrid show

You seem very loyal to shows you profess to hate.

 

[purp]

I tried to like this show but just can't. Got 2 episodes into season 2 before I gave up.

 

[Grey_pilgrim]

I tried to like this show but just can't. Got 2 episodes into season 2 before I gave up.

Definitely gets better imo. The Annatar/Sauron Celebrimbor interactions are worth watching just for them alone. The Harfoot and Stranger stuff is a bit slow.

 

[Charlie Kelly]

Definitely gets better imo. The Annatar/Sauron Celebrimbor interactions are worth watching just for them alone. The Harfoot and Stranger stuff is a bit slow.

Ironic how one of the only things even remotely canon in the show seems to be the most popular storyline amongst viewers.

Makes you wonder how much better it would have turned out if they had just stuck to the source material.

 

[95 Vol Alum]

I enjoyed season 2.

 

[Grey_pilgrim]

Ironic how one of the only things even remotely canon in the show seems to be the most popular storyline amongst viewers.

Makes you wonder how much better it would have turned out if they had just stuck to the source material.

Not making excuses for them, but they’re very limited in what they have the rights to. Anything outside of The Hobbit, LoTR and the LoTR appendices is off limits. They have to go to the Tolkien Estate and get permission and pay for anything for The Silmarillion, HoME or any of the other source material.

Plus The Silmarillion and many of those other books aren’t technically “canon/lore” anyways. JRR never published them himself and Christopher basically had to pull stuff together from scrawled notes. Like with the origin of Orcs. He more or less just picked one version his father had. Just to help get it published. Tolkien himself never really stopped tinkering with his lore.

I say this as someone whose favorite book is The Silmarillion. Its scope is huge and epic but a completed work it was not.

Also Simon Tolkien has a huge hand in what’s goes on. It was his call to keep Adar around, which I think was a good move. He’s one of my favorite characters.

Personally I try to enjoy the show as its own thing within Tolkiens universe. That’s not to say the writing and pacing doesn’t have issues at times, nor do I like being beat over the head with the “Grand Elf” thing. But it definitely has some very very good things in it too.

 

[Charlie Kelly]

Not making excuses for them, but they’re very limited in what they have the rights to. Anything outside of The Hobbit, LoTR and the LoTR appendices is off limits. They have to go to the Tolkien Estate and get permission and pay for anything for The Silmarillion, HoME or any of the other source material.

Plus The Silmarillion and many of those other books aren’t technically “canon/lore” anyways. JRR never published them himself and Christopher basically had to pull stuff together from scrawled notes. Like with the origin of Orcs. He more or less just picked one version his father had. Just to help get it published. Tolkien himself never really stopped tinkering with his lore.

I say this as someone whose favorite book is The Silmarillion. Its scope is huge and epic but a completed work it was not.

Also Simon Tolkien has a huge hand in what’s goes on. It was his call to keep Adar around, which I think was a good move. He’s one of my favorite characters.

Personally I try to enjoy the show as its own thing within Tolkiens universe. That’s not to say the writing and pacing doesn’t have issues at times, nor do I like being beat over the head with the “Grand Elf” thing. But it definitely has some very very good things in it too.

I’m aware of this.

Tolkien’s work is by far my favorite fantasy world. I’ve ready just about everything Tolkien ever created, including the stuff his son published after his death. I’m one of those odd people who enjoy the Silmarillion too (I actually just reread it this summer before season 2 dropped).

I would definitely argue with you over the Silmarillon not being canon, though. Tolkien’s creation story, even though he was always tinkering, was pretty fleshed out before he died. He even tried to get a draft of it published after the Hobbit but it was rejected by his publisher (and then the LotR was born).

Either way, I only have a few gripes with the show:

1.) Galadriel is the one of the oldest elves in middle earth during the second age. As Finarfin’s daughter (whose line was renowned for their wisdom and tact) and the granddaughter of Finwe, why is she running around like a pissed off teenager? Completely whiffed on her character in my opinion. She remembers the creation of the sun and the moon; you’d think she’d be a bit more mature and level-headed.

2.) The Gandalf storyline. This is in the LotR appendices. No excuse for him to even be present during the second age. (Same could be said for the Balrog in Moria, but I guess that one’s not as egregious).

3.) TONE. This feels way too much like a Marvel movie and not enough like the mystical, spiritual world of Tolkien. I realize this is a very subjective gripe, but I don’t seem to be the only Tolkien fan who feels this way. I fail to see how someone who has watched LotR couldn’t notice the difference between those movies and this show. The anthropomorphization of all the different races (especially the Maiar and Elves) is also a bit troubling.

That being said, I’ll still watch Season 3. I guess I’m just a sucker for anything Tolkien. As long as they include the Akallabeth, I’ll keep tagging along. (But if they rip off another Harry Potter line, I might throw something at my TV).

 

[Grey_pilgrim]

I’m aware of this.

Tolkien’s work is by far my favorite fantasy world. I’ve ready just about everything Tolkien ever created, including the stuff his son published after his death. I’m one of those odd people who enjoy the Silmarillion too (I actually just reread it this summer before season 2 dropped).

I would definitely argue with you over the Silmarillon not being canon, though. Tolkien’s creation story, even though he was always tinkering, was pretty fleshed out before he died. He even tried to get a draft of it published after the Hobbit but it was rejected by his publisher (and then the LotR was born).

Either way, I only have a few gripes with the show:

1.) Galadriel is the one of the oldest elves in middle earth during the second age. As Finarfin’s daughter (whose line was renowned for their wisdom and tact) and the granddaughter of Finwe, why is she running around like a pissed off teenager? Completely whiffed on her character in my opinion. She remembers the creation of the sun and the moon; you’d think she’d be a bit more mature and level-headed.

2.) The Gandalf storyline. This is in the LotR appendices. No excuse for him to even be present during the second age. (Same could be said for the Balrog in Moria, but I guess that one’s not as egregious).

3.) TONE. This feels way too much like a Marvel movie and not enough like the mystical, spiritual world of Tolkien. I realize this is a very subjective gripe, but I don’t seem to be the only Tolkien fan who feels this way. I fail to see how someone who has watched LotR couldn’t notice the difference between those movies and this show. The anthropomorphization of all the different races (especially the Maiar and Elves) is also a bit troubling.

That being said, I’ll still watch Season 3. I guess I’m just a sucker for anything Tolkien. As long as they include the Akallabeth, I’ll keep tagging along. (But if they rip off another Harry Potter line, I might throw something at my TV).

Same for me. I definitely have my gripes with the show but I try not to be too critical of it and just enjoy it for what it is.

If I was to be nitpicking, something definitely feels off for whatever reason. The Elves don’t feel as ethereal as they should imo. And Middle Earth feels very small. We see characters in one region then a completely different one without much time passing. Then theres seems to even be some continuity errors even within the show itself, as you said with Galadriel but also Celebrimbor. They’re supposed to be about the same age, Galadriel even a bit older but she looks much younger. While Charles Edwards was amazing in his role as Celebrimbor, I wish they could’ve either got someone younger or maybe have someone older play Galadriel or use makeup to make him look younger.

Then we have Arondir get pretty beat up on screen but he’s fine in the next episode. While I’m glad to have him because he’s also a favorite of mine, it would’ve been better to show him being healed.

Another gripe is the river drying up and becoming a walkable surface, enough for siege engines to be drawn across it.

I do agree that the show works best when they stick closer to the source material.

On Gandalf being The Stranger, I wish he would’ve been a Blue wizard. But I think there is a few notes from Tolkien about the possibility of Gandalf coming in the SA. I think they went that direction to also tie in with the Jackson movies.

 

[Charlie Kelly]

Same for me. I definitely have my gripes with the show but I try not to be too critical of it and just enjoy it for what it is.

If I was to be nitpicking, something definitely feels off for whatever reason. The Elves don’t feel as ethereal as they should imo. And Middle Earth feels very small. We see characters in one region then a completely different one without much time passing. Then theres seems to even be some continuity errors even within the show itself, as you said with Galadriel but also Celebrimbor. They’re supposed to be about the same age, Galadriel even a bit older but she looks much younger. While Charles Edwards was amazing in his role as Celebrimbor, I wish they could’ve either got someone younger or maybe have someone older play Galadriel or use makeup to make him look younger.

Then we have Arondir get pretty beat up on screen but he’s fine in the next episode. While I’m glad to have him because he’s also a favorite of mine, it would’ve been better to show him being healed.

Another gripe is the river drying up and becoming a walkable surface, enough for siege engines to be drawn across it.

I do agree that the show works best when they stick closer to the source material.

On Gandalf being The Stranger, I wish he would’ve been a Blue wizard. But I think there is a few notes from Tolkien about the possibility of Gandalf coming in the SA. I think they went that direction to also tie in with the Jackson movies.

You’re right, I noticed the continuity and writing errors as well. I don’t have a problem with Arondir as a character but I do have a problem with him being near death at the end of one episode and completely fine the next. The river drying up and yet being able to push siege engines through mud isn’t very plausible either.

Also, the sack of Eregion seemed a bit small in scale (didn’t look like more than a thousand on each side). Galadriel being able to walk through an orc camp without them smelling her is another example. Little stuff like that does add up even though I try to let it go. Sometimes it seems like the writers haven’t read enough Tolkien to be able to write this show well.

And I can’t remember who’s older between Galadriel and Celebrimbor but they were both born during the Years of the Trees. Galadriel is one generation closer to Finwe but Celebrimbor is of Feanor’s line. Either way, they should both be very mature and wise by this point (which I agree, Celebrimbor was pretty well done). Both are significantly older than Gil-galad and Elrond.

The blue wizards would have been better in the east but I still think the entire storyline is unnecessary. Deleting it from the show would probably help to streamline things (but they’re committed at this point so I guess we’ll just roll with it).

I’m mainly interested to see how they deal with Numenor and Sauron. That’s probably my favorite part of the second age so I’m really hoping they stick closely to the source material on that one.

 

[Grey_pilgrim]

You’re right, I noticed the continuity and writing errors as well. I don’t have a problem with Arondir as a character but I do have a problem with him being near death at the end of one episode and completely fine the next. The river drying up and yet being able to push siege engines through mud isn’t very plausible either.

Also, the sack of Eregion seemed a bit small in scale (didn’t look like more than a thousand on each side). Galadriel being able to walk through an orc camp without them smelling her is another example. Little stuff like that does add up even though I try to let it go. Sometimes it seems like the writers haven’t read enough Tolkien to be able to write this show well.

And I can’t remember who’s older between Galadriel and Celebrimbor but they were both born during the Years of the Trees. Galadriel is one generation closer to Finwe but Celebrimbor is of Feanor’s line. Either way, they should both be very mature and wise by this point (which I agree, Celebrimbor was pretty well done). Both are significantly older than Gil-galad and Elrond.

The blue wizards would have been better in the east but I still think the entire storyline is unnecessary. Deleting it from the show would probably help to streamline things (but they’re committed at this point so I guess we’ll just roll with it).

I’m mainly interested to see how they deal with Numenor and Sauron. That’s probably my favorite part of the second age so I’m really hoping they stick closely to the source material on that one.

I’m excited to see how they do that as well. If they stick to the source material, it’s gonna get very dark. Charlie Vickers as Sauron manipulating everyone should be very good based on his performance so far.

I also really hope that the dark wizard isn’t Saruman. Even though they’ve all but said it’s him with his style and lines. That would be lore breaking even to the Jackson movies which they seem to be lining up with.

I feel like season 2 was better overall than the first season, hopefully season 3 will continue that trend.

Also excited for War of the Rohirrim. Can’t remember if I said it here or reddit but I really want it to do well because I think animation would be an excellent way to adapt The Silmarillion to the big screen. Maybe the only way to really cover everything

 

[Jackcrevol]

You’re right, I noticed the continuity and writing errors as well. I don’t have a problem with Arondir as a character but I do have a problem with him being near death at the end of one episode and completely fine the next. The river drying up and yet being able to push siege engines through mud isn’t very plausible either.

Also, the sack of Eregion seemed a bit small in scale (didn’t look like more than a thousand on each side). Galadriel being able to walk through an orc camp without them smelling her is another example. Little stuff like that does add up even though I try to let it go. Sometimes it seems like the writers haven’t read enough Tolkien to be able to write this show well.

And I can’t remember who’s older between Galadriel and Celebrimbor but they were both born during the Years of the Trees. Galadriel is one generation closer to Finwe but Celebrimbor is of Feanor’s line. Either way, they should both be very mature and wise by this point (which I agree, Celebrimbor was pretty well done). Both are significantly older than Gil-galad and Elrond.

The blue wizards would have been better in the east but I still think the entire storyline is unnecessary. Deleting it from the show would probably help to streamline things (but they’re committed at this point so I guess we’ll just roll with it).

I’m mainly interested to see how they deal with Numenor and Sauron. That’s probably my favorite part of the second age so I’m really hoping they stick closely to the source material on that one.

Tolkein's grand is a writer on show.

 

[Charlie Kelly]

I’m excited to see how they do that as well. If they stick to the source material, it’s gonna get very dark. Charlie Vickers as Sauron manipulating everyone should be very good based on his performance so far.

I also really hope that the dark wizard isn’t Saruman. Even though they’ve all but said it’s him with his style and lines. That would be lore breaking even to the Jackson movies which they seem to be lining up with.

I feel like season 2 was better overall than the first season, hopefully season 3 will continue that trend.

Also excited for War of the Rohirrim. Can’t remember if I said it here or reddit but I really want it to do well because I the animation would be an excellent way to adapt The Silmarillion to the screen. Maybe the only way to really cover everything

Definitely will be interesting to see how much they lean into it. Charlie Vickers as Sauron has been my favorite character so far.

And yeah, I’ll agree season 2 was better than season 1. Hopefully it continues to improve. I am afraid the dark wizard will turn out to be Saruman as well. Maybe he’ll end up being a blue wizard.

I am interested in the anime too. I’ll definitely be watching that movie. I’ve never thought about doing the Silmarillion that way though but I think it could definitely work. It would certainly make the Ainulindale and Valar easier to show.

 

[Charlie Kelly]

Tolkein's grand is a writer on show.

Consultant and writer are two different things.

 

[Jackcrevol]

Consultant and writer are two different things.

yup, my bad. you're right

 

[Freiwillige]

There are too many plot holes for me to like it. For example, Galadriel jumps into the ocean to swim back home and Sauron is right there in the middle of the ocean to be her taxi service to Numenor. Arondir shows up exactly when some one needs to be rescued. Why does Adar think that he can kill Sauron when he has killed Sauron really well once and Sauron came back to life? Why does Gandalf crash land into Middle Earth - the Valar could put him on a boat. I can probably think of more but it is late.

 

[purp]

I’m aware of this.

Tolkien’s work is by far my favorite fantasy world. I’ve ready just about everything Tolkien ever created, including the stuff his son published after his death. I’m one of those odd people who enjoy the Silmarillion too (I actually just reread it this summer before season 2 dropped).

I would definitely argue with you over the Silmarillon not being canon, though. Tolkien’s creation story, even though he was always tinkering, was pretty fleshed out before he died. He even tried to get a draft of it published after the Hobbit but it was rejected by his publisher (and then the LotR was born).

Either way, I only have a few gripes with the show:

1.) Galadriel is the one of the oldest elves in middle earth during the second age. As Finarfin’s daughter (whose line was renowned for their wisdom and tact) and the granddaughter of Finwe, why is she running around like a pissed off teenager? Completely whiffed on her character in my opinion. She remembers the creation of the sun and the moon; you’d think she’d be a bit more mature and level-headed.

2.) The Gandalf storyline. This is in the LotR appendices. No excuse for him to even be present during the second age. (Same could be said for the Balrog in Moria, but I guess that one’s not as egregious).

3.) TONE. This feels way too much like a Marvel movie and not enough like the mystical, spiritual world of Tolkien. I realize this is a very subjective gripe, but I don’t seem to be the only Tolkien fan who feels this way. I fail to see how someone who has watched LotR couldn’t notice the difference between those movies and this show. The anthropomorphization of all the different races (especially the Maiar and Elves) is also a bit troubling.

That being said, I’ll still watch Season 3. I guess I’m just a sucker for anything Tolkien. As long as they include the Akallabeth, I’ll keep tagging along. (But if they rip off another Harry Potter line, I might throw something at my TV).

#3 is probably my biggest gripe but was having a hard time putting it into words.

 

[Charlie Kelly]

#3 is probably my biggest gripe but was having a hard time putting it into words.

I understand they’re probably trying to appeal to a wider audience with the new age style (more action sequences; kung fu/Asian inspired fight choreography; generous use of CGI; multiple plot lines a la game of thrones, etc) but I guess I’m more of a purist.

If it isn’t your work and you’re trying to adapt something, I think you should try and remain as faithful to the original artist’s creation/intent as possible.

Like I said earlier, I’ll still keep watching though. Hopefully it continues to improve. Season 2 was considerably better than Season 1, in my opinion.

 

[FLVOL_79]

The Balrog scene was sick..