America: The Future

#126
#126
IPorange said:
I know the answer to 3: He'll say, let the states decide! And then the (redivided) majority will again rule. He would continue this until it got down to a subdivision/neighborhood level, and then he'll wonder whatever happened to freedom. He will conclude that some liberal "took it" from him.

EDIT: When I replied your 3. said Muslim, but that doesn't really change anything in my response I suppose.
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At the end of the day, you trust politicians more than the people of this country. I have more faith in the people than I do Washington insiders who spend their entire lives inside the Beltway.
 
#127
#127
VolInMn said:
If Muslims wanted something from the Koran displayed in a court room, would you support that?



That's interesting. Did he cite a source or do you have a link that has more information about that? I've never heard that before.
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Majority rules, I bet if you go to a mostly Muslim country they have Islamic figures and sayings from the Koran. I would not support that here.

He had 3 guests one being a religious historian that backed him up.
 
#128
#128
T-TownVol said:
I care about this issue on a personal level, but it is not something that I, as a right wing, uber conservative, and a CHRISTIAN, think the government should regulate.

Politicians rally the troops, on both sides, for only one reason.....votes.
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We must be in some wierd vortex of space time, because I can actually agree with you on this.
 
#129
#129
IPorange said:
I know the answer to 3: He'll say, let the states decide! And then the (redivided) majority will again rule. He would continue this until it got down to a subdivision/neighborhood level, and then he'll wonder whatever happened to freedom. He will conclude that some liberal "took it" from him.

EDIT: When I replied your 3. said Muslim, but that doesn't really change anything in my response I suppose.
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Yea, I thought about it and changed it. I wanted it to reflect something that had a greater possibility of happening
 
#130
#130
Bottom line, a secular government is better for everybody. I'm against anything that could start a slippery slope towards state endorsement of religion.
 
#131
#131
volfanjustin said:
At the end of the day, you trust politicians more than the people of this country. I have more faith in the people than I do Washington insiders who spend their entire lives inside the Beltway.
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That is dead wrong. At the end of the day, I don't trust anyone with my freedom. You trust "people"-- except non-conservative pinko commies, religious minorities, atheists, middle easterners, and latino immigrants.

Who do you think keeps putting those insiders in office, if not "the people?"


You saying I put my faith in politicians is a laughable knee-jerk response, one-size-fits-all. Bad news. I'm not a Republican or a Democrat, and don't fit the mold for your canned Glenn Beck responses.
 
#132
#132
volfanjustin said:
Majority rules, I bet if you go to a mostly Muslim country they have Islamic figures and sayings from the Koran. I would not support that here.

He had 3 guests one being a religious historian that backed him up.
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You know what we call those Muslim countries? Theocracies.

It's a strange defense, holding up backwards middle eastern countries as examples we should be ok with following.
 
#133
#133
IPorange said:
That is dead wrong. At the end of the day, I don't trust anyone with my freedom. You trust "people"-- except non-conservative pinko commies, religious minorities, atheists, middle easterners, and latino immigrants.

Who do you think keeps putting those insiders in office, if not "the people?"


You saying I put my faith in politicians is a laughable knee-jerk response, one-size-fits-all. Bad news. I'm not a Republican or a Democrat, and don't fit the mold for your canned Glenn Beck responses.
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I trust that I received my rights from God, not any person or any government.

I know the constitution says that any issues not covered in it shall be handled by the states. I believe in states right and would rather a lot of these matters that the fed. govt is handling be handled on a more local level.

I'm not a Republican either. I am a conservative in every sense of the word.
 
#135
#135
IPorange said:
You know what we call those Muslim countries? Theocracies.

It's a strange defense, holding up backwards middle eastern countries as examples we should be ok with following.
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Exactly.

As soon as you start letting majority rule with state endorsement of religion it becomes very dangerous.

Look at France. By all accounts it will be a Muslim majority in the next 50 years. While it is a democratic first world country now, anybody want to bet how long before they adopt sharia law to appease the masses?

Furthermore, if we were to leave Iraq and let the early democracy take over, there is no reason not to believe the people won't immediately vote themselves a full fledge Islamic theocracy.

Call me crazy, but this is one area I don't mind the government having control when it comes to preserving seculararity, despite the calls of the masses.
 
#136
#136
volfanjustin said:
Majority rules, I bet if you go to a mostly Muslim country they have Islamic figures and sayings from the Koran. I would not support that here.

He had 3 guests one being a religious historian that backed him up.
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Ok, so it's not freedom of religion for everyone, just the majority? Not all religions are created equal in the US, in other words.

That doesn't help me because I'm looking for a citation or something. Do you remember who the historians were?
 
#137
#137
VolInMn said:
Ok, so it's not freedom of religion for everyone, just the majority? Not all religions are created equal in the US, in other words.

That doesn't help me because I'm looking for a citation or something. Do you remember who the historians were?
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I don't guess you have read any of my statements, I have said everyone has freedom to practice any religion they like or no religion at all.

I looked on the Fox News website and went to his page and I could not find it, he had a transcript on there about religion but not the one I am looking for.
 
#138
#138
volfanjustin said:
I don't guess you have read any of my statements, I have said everyone has freedom to practice any religion they like or no religion at all.

I looked on the Fox News website and went to his page and I could not find it, he had a transcript on there about religion but not the one I am looking for.
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No, I have read them. You want the 10 commandments to be able to be displayed in public, yet no documents from other religions.

So help me out, here. Anyone can practice whatever religion they like, but only the religion of the majority has the right to have their documents displayed in a court house? Is that correct?

Edited to add: I don't believe what Beck said about the bible and congress. At all.
 
#139
#139
rjd970 said:
Exactly.

As soon as you start letting majority rule with state endorsement of religion it becomes very dangerous.

Look at France. By all accounts it will be a Muslim majority in the next 50 years. While it is a democratic first world country now, anybody want to bet how long before they adopt sharia law to appease the masses?

Furthermore, if we were to leave Iraq and let the early democracy take over, there is no reason not to believe the people won't immediately vote themselves a full fledge Islamic theocracy.

Call me crazy, but this is one area I don't mind the government having control when it comes to preserving seculararity, despite the calls of the masses.
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Very good post!!

The more the government keeps religion out of decision making the better.

Blue laws come to mind when religion and government mix.

Anyone remember those days when nothing was opened on Sunday?
That was pushed by the religious groups to force religious standards on the masses.

Those have since been deemed Unconstitutional and most have been repealed.

Blue laws are the main reason you cant purchase alcohol on Sunday.

By the way, Where in the Bible said Sunday was the Sabbath?

All it says is on the first day, God created the Heavens and Earth and on the seventh, he rested. It didnt say anything about starting Monday and ending on Sunday

What if he started on Thursday? That would make Wednesday the Sabbath.
 
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#140
#140
Mr. President

To messers Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.

Gentlemen

The affectionate sentiments of esteem & approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful & zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, and in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more & more pleasing.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man & his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state. [Congress thus inhibited from acts respecting religion, and the Executive authorised only to execute their acts, I have refrained from presenting even occasional performances of devotion presented indeed legally where an Executive is the legal head of a national church, but subject here, as religious exercises only to the voluntary regulations and discipline of each respective sect.] Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection and blessing of the common Father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves and your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.

(signed) Thomas Jefferson
Jan.1.1802.
 
#141
#141
CountVolcula said:
Very good post!!

The more the government keeps religion out of decision making the better.

Blue laws come to mind when religion and government mix.

Anyone remember those days when nothing was opened on Sunday?
That was pushed by the religious groups to force religious standards on the masses.

Those have since been deemed Unconstitutional and most have been repealed.

Blue laws are the main reason you cant purchase alcohol on Sunday.

By the way, Where in the Bible said Sunday was the Sabbath?

All it says is on the first day, God created the Heavens and Earth and on the seventh, he rested. It didnt say anything about starting Monday and ending on Sunday

What if he started on Thursday? That would make Wednesday the Sabbath.
Click to expand...


How do you reconcile endorsement of so many conservative ideals when you reject one of the fundamental (if not THE fundamental) tenet of modern day conservative thought?
 
#142
#142
VolInMn said:
No, I have read them. You want the 10 commandments to be able to be displayed in public, yet no documents from other religions.

So help me out, here. Anyone can practice whatever religion they like, but only the religion of the majority has the right to have their documents displayed in a court house? Is that correct?

Edited to add: I don't believe what Beck said about the bible and congress. At all.
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The 10 commandments are displayed right behind the 9 Supreme Court Justices. We are a christian country which respects eveyone's right to practice their own and does not try to stand between a person and what ever they want to believe or worship.

Well he said it and his guests backed him up.

This country has progressively went more and more down hill since you ACLU types have tried to remove all things religion out of our lives.
 
#144
#144
lawgator1 said:
How do you reconcile endorsement of so many conservative ideals when you reject one of the fundamental (if not THE fundamental) tenet of modern day conservative thought?
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what a bunch of garbage. that's like me saying that global warming is a fundamental tenent of modern day liberal thought.
 
#146
#146
volfanjustin said:
The 10 commandments are displayed right behind the 9 Supreme Court Justices. We are a christian country which respects eveyone's right to practice their own and does not try to stand between a person and what ever they want to believe or worship.

Well he said it and his guests backed him up.

This country has progressively went more and more down hill since you ACLU types have tried to remove all things religion out of our lives.
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Nobody is forcing religion out of your lives. Has anyone told you that you couldnt attend church?

Just because God is not taught in schools or scripture is not plastered all over the walls, doesnt mean that people are taking away your religion.

The beauty of this country is that you have that right to believe and the next person has the right to not believe.

When we get involved in making your and my beliefs more important than others, then we are wading into dangerous waters.

We have then allowed for a door to be open to allow another group to dictate their beliefs on us. Do we want that?

I sure dont want that.

You have to remain open-minded. In a republic, we must respect each others views while maintaining our own.
 
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#147
#147
droski said:
what a bunch of garbage. that's like me saying that global warming is a fundamental tenent of modern day liberal thought.
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I didnt quite get what he was implying either

Being Christian doesnt automatically make you a conservative.

And not being Christian doesnt automatically make you a liberal.
 
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#148
#148
CountVolcula said:
I didnt quite get was he was implying either

Being Christian doesnt automatically make you a conservative.

And not being Christian doesnt automatically make you a liberal.
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LG does not get what he is saying most of the time either.
 
#149
#149
lawgator1 said:
How do you reconcile endorsement of so many conservative ideals when you reject one of the fundamental (if not THE fundamental) tenet of modern day conservative thought?
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I disagree with this. There are liberal religious types too. To me, the fundamental tenet of modern day conservatives is less government. It's a shame that message has been hijacked by the religious groups wanting to marry Christian ideals into government. They get the most press, but I certainly don't think they are indicitive of the conservative movement as a whole.

Like somebody said earlier, its more about garnering votes than anything else. True conservatives that care about real freedom couldn't care less about what God anybody else prays too.
 
#150
#150
rjd970 said:
I disagree with this. There are liberal religious types too. To me, the fundamental tenet of modern day conservatives is less government. It's a shame that message has been hijacked by the religious groups wanting to marry Christian ideals into government. They get the most press, but I certainly don't think they are indicitive of the conservative movement as a whole.

Like somebody said earlier, its more about garnering votes than anything else. True conservatives that care about real freedom couldn't care less about what God anybody else prays too.
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Exactly!!
 
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