American interests at risk in the Arctic Circle, War with Russia & China coming soon

#26
#26
Since they didn't name the US official in the linked part of that story, I'm wondering how Billy in the mail room feels about his new official title...
 
#27
#27
Rasputin_Vol said:
I'm pro-American. Nothing that involves Russian interest should be of interest to us.
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Would you have made a similar comment about Germany pre WWII? And don't you believe Russia has interest in U.S. interests? Seems like a two way street.
 
#29
#29
Weezer said:
Would you have made a similar comment about Germany pre WWII?
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I would have... and in retrospect in 2019, I think most intelligent people would say that today.

Weezer said:
And don't you believe Russia has interest in U.S. interests? Seems like a two way street.
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There are several examples of that. But the Arctic shipping lane is not something that threatens or jeopardizes anything for the US. Venezuela or Cuba? I might at least listen to that conversation. But Syria/Middle East affairs, or Ukraine? Can't really convince me...
 
#30
#30
Rasputin_Vol said:
I would have... and in retrospect in 2019, I think most intelligent people would say that today.



There are several examples of that. But the Arctic shipping lane is not something that threatens or jeopardizes anything for the US. Venezuela or Cuba? I might at least listen to that conversation. But Syria/Middle East affairs, or Ukraine? Can't really convince me...
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Okay, clarify that first statement for me. Are you suggesting we shouldn't have gotten into WWII? Or that we shouldn't have gotten involved earlier?

If the U.S. shouldn't be involved in the ME(which I wish we weren't), should Russia? And Russia should have no place in Cuba or Venezuela or any other Western Hemisphere country. I support the Monroe Doctrine to that effect.
 
#31
#31
Weezer said:
Okay, clarify that first statement for me. Are you suggesting we shouldn't have gotten into WWII? Or that we shouldn't have gotten involved earlier?
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We should not have been involved in WWI or WWII.

Weezer said:
If the U.S. shouldn't be involved in the ME(which I wish we weren't), should Russia?
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Russia has a relationship with Syria partially due to the fact that they have a naval base in Tartus. Russia's lack of many warm water ports makes Syria strategically important in that case. Outside of that, Russia has ties with their Caspian neighbor Iran and now seem to be having a love/hate relationship with their Black Sea neighbor in Turkey. All of these relationships in the region is directly due to their proximity to Russia and former Soviet Republics.

Weezer said:
And Russia should have no place in Cuba or Venezuela or any other Western Hemisphere country. I support the Monroe Doctrine to that effect.
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It would be wise if Russia stayed out of affairs in this hemisphere. They could learn a lot from the USA. Stretching themselves too far out of their regional sphere of influence can be expensive and get you bogged down in useless military campaigns.

Why do you support the Monroe Doctrine? Or a better question would be, what is your interpretation of what the Monroe Doctrine is?
 
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#32
#32
Rasputin_Vol said:
We should not have been involved in WWI or WWII.


Russia has a relationship with Syria partially due to the fact that they have a naval base in Tartus. Russia's lack of many warm water ports makes Syria strategically important in that case. Outside of that, Russia has ties with their Caspian neighbor Iran and now seem to be having a love/hate relationship with their Black Sea neighbor in Turkey. All of these relationships in the region is directly due to their proximity to Russia and former Soviet Republics.


It would be wise if Russia stayed out of affairs in this hemisphere. They could learn a lot from the USA. Stretching themselves too far out of their regional sphere of influence can be expensive and get you bogged down in useless military campaigns.

Why do you support the Monroe Doctrine? Or a better question would be, what is your interpretation of what the Monroe Doctrine is?
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I have to disagree that we shouldn't have been involved in the World Wars, especially WWII. Hitler would not have stopped at Europe, and Japan would not have stopped at Asia and the Pacific.

I also disagree with Russia being involved in the ME. It's like using our relationship with Israel or Saudi Arabia to justify our presence there. Maybe both Russia and the U.S. need to leave the area alone for awhile and see if they can work out their own differences.

My interpretation of the Monroe Doctrine is simple. Whether it be Russia, China, or any other nation that is not part of the Americas, they need to stay out of the politics in our hemisphere, otherwise it will be seen as a potential threat to our country.

I agree that the U.S. takes on far more than it should, often sticking our nose in situations we should not, but it seems as if you're condemning the U.S. for those actions while supporting Russia in similar actions.
 
#33
#33
Weezer said:
I have to disagree that we shouldn't have been involved in the World Wars, especially WWII. Hitler would not have stopped at Europe, and Japan would not have stopped at Asia and the Pacific.

I also disagree with Russia being involved in the ME. It's like using our relationship with Israel or Saudi Arabia to justify our presence there. Maybe both Russia and the U.S. need to leave the area alone for awhile and see if they can work out their own differences.

My interpretation of the Monroe Doctrine is simple. Whether it be Russia, China, or any other nation that is not part of the Americas, they need to stay out of the politics in our hemisphere, otherwise it will be seen as a potential threat to our country.

I agree that the U.S. takes on far more than it should, often sticking our nose in situations we should not, but it seems as if you're condemning the U.S. for those actions while supporting Russia in similar actions.
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Well, let me address the highlighted first. Right now, in 2019, it is obvious (or at least should be obvious) to most that the United States foreign policy is not in the best interest of the people here at home, nor is it in the business of spreading freedom and democracy. That is where we are. The United States, as of today, is acting like an imperial power... or at least acts as though we have been given some power to stick our nose in other countries to support the interests of those in Washington/Wall St.

Russia, on the other hand, is one of several countries that appear to be against that form of American imperialism. China is also one of those states that seems to be against it, although I am very concerned about China replacing our current American imperialism with some thing similar to what China does internally. But as far as China wanting to protect its regional maritime routes in the South China Sea, I can understand that. And quite frankly, if the USA is able to hold on to a 200 year old Monroe Doctrine, then why is it unreasonable for China to have its own Monroe Doctrine with regards to any major foreign powers coming to its realm of influence? Or Russia?

The problem with you supporting the Monroe Doctrine is that you open the door for other regional powers to do the same. If we are going to be aggressive in our defense of this hemisphere from foreign powers, then why can't China and Russia behave similarly in the South China Sea and the Arctic Northeast Bypass or Ukraine, respectively?
 
#34
#34
Rasputin_Vol said:
Well, let me address the highlighted first. Right now, in 2019, it is obvious (or at least should be obvious) to most that the United States foreign policy is not in the best interest of the people here at home, nor is it in the business of spreading freedom and democracy. That is where we are. The United States, as of today, is acting like an imperial power... or at least acts as though we have been given some power to stick our nose in other countries to support the interests of those in Washington/Wall St.

Russia, on the other hand, is one of several countries that appear to be against that form of American imperialism. China is also one of those states that seems to be against it, although I am very concerned about China replacing our current American imperialism with some thing similar to what China does internally. But as far as China wanting to protect its regional maritime routes in the South China Sea, I can understand that. And quite frankly, if the USA is able to hold on to a 200 year old Monroe Doctrine, then why is it unreasonable for China to have its own Monroe Doctrine with regards to any major foreign powers coming to its realm of influence? Or Russia?

The problem with you supporting the Monroe Doctrine is that you open the door for other regional powers to do the same. If we are going to be aggressive in our defense of this hemisphere from foreign powers, then why can't China and Russia behave similarly in the South China Sea and the Arctic Northeast Bypass or Ukraine, respectively?
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I have zero problem with them objecting to our presence in their backyard. That doesn't make it okay for them to invade or hinder the other nations in their backyard. Are we invading Canada or Mexico or any other country in our backyard? Should China be able to hinder the trade lanes of Taiwan or Japan? Should Russia be able to invade the Ukraine? It seems you're holding our country to different standards than you do other countries.
 
#35
#35
Perfect example of what I'm talking about with regards to American imperialsim. While the US is out here banging war drums in the Middle East, everybody else is build rail systems and port facilities to spark commerce and trade.

Syria & Iran To Defy Sanctions By Building Railway From Tehran To Mediterranean

While this should be beneficial for all parties, this new railway system will face heavy criticism and possibly military attack from the U.S. and its allies, most notably Israel.

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Map via Syrianews.cc: Iran will bypass the Strait of Hormuz, Arabian Sea, Gulf of Aden, Red Sea and Suez Canal to reach the Mediterranean.
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The U.S. is likely currently opposing the Syrian Arab Army’s (SAA) control over the border city of Albukamal in Deir Ezzor because it allows Iran to build a land bridge along the international highway.
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#36
#36
Weezer said:
I have zero problem with them objecting to our presence in their backyard. That doesn't make it okay for them to invade or hinder the other nations in their backyard.
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Who has Russia invade in the Middle East? Syria invited them there. Who are they hindering in their backyard?

Weezer said:
Are we invading Canada or Mexico or any other country in our backyard?
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We just recently had Pompeo and others in the WH bouncing around the idea of invading Venezuela. And there is some evidence to suggest that we have been involved in "colour revolution" style chaos within Venezuela through NGOs and attempting to arm resistance groups through Colombia.

Weezer said:
Should China be able to hinder the trade lanes of Taiwan or Japan?
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No they shouldn't. Now they question I have for you is when has China ever done that? Why would China ever do that? China is the worlds largest importer ad exporter. Their entire economy relies of open and free shipping lanes... even from Taiwan and Japan. So what incentive would they have to bottleneck that region of the world?

Weezer said:
Should Russia be able to invade the Ukraine?
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If you are going to defend the Monroe Doctrine, then you have to understand why Russia would be involved with a country that shares a border and cultural ties to Russia. The question I ask you is why was the US involved in overthrowing a democratically elected president in Ukraine?

Weezer said:
It seems you're holding our country to different standards than you do other countries.
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Meh, so what if I am? We've been carrying ourselves around like we are the exceptional nation since WWII. With great power comes great responsibility... and have ruined our reputation over that time period by spreading death and debt across the globe under the guise of supporting freedom and democracy.
 
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#37
#37
Ras, there are some things I think we have a similar viewpoint on, but others, I just don't think we'll see eye to eye on. Like I said before, I agree that the U.S. sticks its nose into far too many places it doesn't belong. Maybe we should just leave it at agreeing on that point.
 
#38
#38
Weezer said:
Ras, there are some things I think we have a similar viewpoint on, but others, I just don't think we'll see eye to eye on. Like I said before, I agree that the U.S. sticks its nose into far too many places it doesn't belong. Maybe we should just leave it at agreeing on that point.
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All I will say in closing is this. When has the US NOT been engaged in a war or conflict in your lifetime? Since the Eisenhower freeway system, when was the last time the US was engaged in a super-infrastructure project right here in the US to help promote commerce and trade? When have we been involved with any international infrastructure projects that promote commerce and trade?

We are a warring nation... we spend our resources engaged in war and waste our valuable mental and human capital advancing war instead of advancing commerce and trade.
 
#39
#39
Weezer said:
I have to disagree that we shouldn't have been involved in the World Wars, especially WWII. Hitler would not have stopped at Europe, and Japan would not have stopped at Asia and the Pacific.
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There was no reason for the US to have been involved in WWI. That war would have been strictly contained within Europe for the most part, with very little impact on the affairs here at home... or this hemisphere for that matter.

And Hitler would have been too consumed with dealing with his battles in Europe and energy limitations to have made a serious attempt at threatening the US.
 
#40
#40
Rasputin_Vol said:
There was no reason for the US to have been involved in WWI. That war would have been strictly contained within Europe for the most part, with very little impact on the affairs here at home... or this hemisphere for that matter.

And Hitler would have been too consumed with dealing with his battles in Europe and energy limitations to have made a serious attempt at threatening the US.
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You know that Germany first declared war on USA in WWII?
 
#42
#42
I'm extremely glad the US entered WWI and WWII because that intervention has allowed 4 generations of my family to be born.

I'd bet there are many other American families that can say the same thing.
 
#43
#43
There is no Hitler or WWII without the post WWI sanctions placed on Germany by Wilson.
 
#45
#45
You do know that Wilson's 14 Points were a strong contributing factor to bringing about the armistice, right?

You also know that at Versailles the other Allied countries strongly disagreed with most of Wilson's proposals and very few of them appeared in the final Treaty of Versailles, right?

You also know that the other Allied countries demanded their pound of flesh from Germany in the treaty talks, right?

So knowing those things how are you blaming it all on Wilson again? Please clarify your reasons.
 
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#47
#47
bamawriter said:
With the blessing of hindsight, you don't believe that it was in the best interest of humanity that the US helped stop the Holocaust and the expansion of the Third Reich?
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Should we have sent US troops to Armenia, Cambodia or Rwanda during those 20th Century genocides?
 
#49
#49
bamawriter said:
Could you do me the courtesy of answering my question before posing one of your own?
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I think it is obvious based my prior history that I do not think we should have entered either world war. I'm on record as saying so numerous times. You trying to manufacture an emotional appeal for us entering only highlights your hypocrisy.
 
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