Americans Support Healthcare Bill's Passage

#126
#126
Chattaben said:
The Patriot Act gave the government the power to access your medical records, tax records, information about the books you buy or borrow without probable cause.

The can enter your home and search it without you being present for any federal crime, including misdemeanors, without a warrant and not tell you for weeks, months, or ever.

It set up a system where the government does not need a court order for wiretaps.The right to privacy has decreased for average Americans whereas it makes it harder for Americans to find out what it's government is doing.

All the government has to do is call a group an "enemy combatant" and you will lose all rights as an American citizen, no habeas corpus for you. Bye Bye due process.

Google the name Brandon Mayfield. A US citizen and Muslim convert who was "linked" to the Madrid Train bombing was held for two weeks without being charged or allowed to see a lawyer. The FBI was able to search his house under provisions of the Patriot Act where the found "Spanish documents". The documents happened to be Spanish homework that belonged to his son.
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Once again, this was already on the books, the government used these methods years ago in combating the mob and organized crime, waaay before the PATRIOT Act. ALl this did was consolidate these laws and update them. Do your homework
 
#127
#127
VolInMn said:
Holy balls you guys are out of it today.

GA said it wouldn't bother him if they followed him around. I replied saying that I figured it would bother him if he were being spied on for no reason.

At least read the thread before you come after me, huh?
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Im not doing anything wrong, so they arent gonna be following me, and if they are, oh well!

J Edgar Hoover had files on everyone in the United States.
 
#129
#129
Please enlighten me to where the PA and the HC bill are even comparable? There was bi-partisan support of the PA, and the HC bill is obviously divided, and the Peloser has to find some backdoor rules to even get it passed.

Please tell me also how the PA restricts and controls the people like the HC bill will, well if it is ever fully released to the public
 
#130
#130
it's ok if you choose to look at scales but don't expect to just get a pass on hypocrisy. Giving up even one freedom is too much for some

"I have nothing to hide/not doing anything wrong" is a copout of epic proportions
 
#131
#131
utvolpj said:
it's ok if you choose to look at scales but don't expect to just get a pass on hypocrisy. Giving up even one freedom is too much for some

"I have nothing to hide/not doing anything wrong" is a copout of epic proportions
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Cop out to what PJ? The only way our intelligence finds the bad guys to look. Which means some people will get looked at during the process who are not in fact bad guys which maybe you or I depending on what kind of intelligence sweep they execute. I have no problem with that.
 
#132
#132
Well, look at what the act was targeted towards to begin with. It's main goal is national security, and protection. There still has to be just cause, and there has to be warrants and what not. The main folks that they are after are terrorists. The part the pertains mostly to the average citizen is the Methanphetamine part of the act which cracks down on meth production, distribution, etc
 
#133
#133
hohenfelsvol said:
Cop out to what PJ? The only way our intelligence finds the bad guys to look. Which means some people will get looked at during the process who are not in fact bad guys which maybe you or I depending on what kind of intelligence sweep they execute. I have no problem with that.
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define "bad guy" or "terrorist" today and assure me it will be the same definition in 1 year, 5 yrs, 10 yrs. For example, do Obama and W define it the same way? I just personally think the national security banner is mostly just a catch-all for Americans being dumb enough to believe all of it is to keep us safe.
 
#134
#134
utvolpj said:
define "bad guy" or "terrorist" today and assure me it will be the same definition in 1 year, 5 yrs, 10 yrs. For example, do Obama and W define it the same way? I just personally think the national security banner is mostly just a catch-all for Americans being dumb enough to believe all of it is to keep us safe.
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there isnt a secret police that is going around and taking people that disagree with the government out and shooting them. Answer me this, has it not done its job?
 
#135
#135
GASOUTHERNVOL said:
there isnt a secret police that is going around and taking people that disagree with the government out and shooting them. Answer me this, has it not done its job?
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and I never said there was right now

sure it has done its job as well as the zombie repellent I applied to my doors and windows. Not one zombie has entered my house. It cost a bundle but I'm sure it's well worth the investment
 
#136
#136
utvolpj said:
and I never said there was right now

sure it's done it job as well as the zombie repellent I applied to my doors and windows. Not one zombie has entered my house. It cost a bundle but I'm sure it's well worth the investment
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so you are telling me that there hasnt been one terrorist or one terrorist plot against the United States on our soil since 2001?
 
#138
#138
maybe, maybe not. We cant really play the what if game can we. I know that prior to the PATRIOT Act the way things were didnt work out too well, hence the creation of the patriot act
 
#142
#142
utvolpj said:
define "bad guy" or "terrorist" today and assure me it will be the same definition in 1 year, 5 yrs, 10 yrs. For example, do Obama and W define it the same way? I just personally think the national security banner is mostly just a catch-all for Americans being dumb enough to believe all of it is to keep us safe.
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Hasn't it been only a year or so since soldiers returning from overseas were to be considered "potential threats" or some such thing?

There's no shortage of people who would consider anyone with a gun, nevermind any kind of high capacity repeater, some kind of threat.
 
#143
#143
utvolpj said:
no idea just happens to be one I'm willing to take. Could be because America is the king of knee-jerk reactions
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i agree with that 100% as a general statement, but this is something that was long overdue. clinton and to some extent bush sr handcuffed the CIA and FBI to the point where they could not conduct investigations the same way they did for 50 years prior. putting this into law to stop a future president from reining them in is a good thing IMO. there are a lot of enemies of this country and to underestimate that because of the good job we've done on national security in the past is a bad road to go down.
 
#145
#145
droski said:
i agree with that 100% as a general statement, but this is something that was long overdue. clinton and to some extent bush sr handcuffed the CIA and FBI to the point where they could not conduct investigations the same way they did for 50 years prior. putting this into law to stop a future president from reining them in is a good thing IMO. there are a lot of enemies of this country and to underestimate that because of the good job we've done on national security in the past is a bad road to go down.
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but just like the HC bill it could have been accomplished by much smaller measures. Do you need this big thing when a few small steps gets you to almost the same place?

hohenfelsvol said:
Don't lump all of America into Urban Meyer's bucket.
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I sincerely apologize to all Americans (except FL jort wearers)
 
#147
#147
utvolpj said:
but just like the HC bill it could have been accomplished by much smaller measures. Do you need this big thing when a few small steps gets you to almost the same place?
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I agree. They skipped to the finish line with no though on how to run the race. This is what irritates me the most. Our current health care system is not set up for this kind of radical change.
 
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