Americans Support Healthcare Bill's Passage

#77
#77
VolInMn said:
I would think you'd have a problem with the government following you around spying on you with no just cause.
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VolInMn said:
Not at all. See my response. I would have thought that he would have a problem with being spied on for no reason.
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A bad thing to be sure but do you have evidence that this has happened?

Any hard examples of people being spied on "for no reason"

I'm still waiting for the list of liberties and freedoms lost via the Patriot Act so I can verify Chatt's claim.
 
#80
#80
Oustanding...........

I bet VolinMN has this above his fire place....

stuartsmalley.jpg
 
#82
#82
Holy balls you guys are out of it today.

GA said it wouldn't bother him if they followed him around. I replied saying that I figured it would bother him if he were being spied on for no reason.

At least read the thread before you come after me, huh?
 
#83
#83
The Patriot Act gave the government the power to access your medical records, tax records, information about the books you buy or borrow without probable cause.

The can enter your home and search it without you being present for any federal crime, including misdemeanors, without a warrant and not tell you for weeks, months, or ever.

It set up a system where the government does not need a court order for wiretaps.

The right to privacy has decreased for average Americans whereas it makes it harder for Americans to find out what it's government is doing.

All the government has to do is call a group an "enemy combatant" and you will lose all rights as an American citizen, no habeas corpus for you. Bye Bye due process.

Google the name Brandon Mayfield. A US citizen and Muslim convert who was "linked" to the Madrid Train bombing was held for two weeks without being charged or allowed to see a lawyer. The FBI was able to search his house under provisions of the Patriot Act where the found "Spanish documents". The documents happened to be Spanish homework that belonged to his son.
 
#84
#84
They are welcome to spy on me and tap my phone lines. The cool part us that doing so would actually prove my innocence in anything in which I might be implicated. Funny how that works.
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#85
#85
droski said:
for those who think the patriot act took away our rights do you know anyone who has been effected by the new laws put into the patriot act?
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Just like the Healthcare Bill, give it time. Its how they will manipulate it, just like everything else, to fit their needs. Terrorists today: teabaggers, liberals, conservatives, tomorrow. Label anyone of those "terrorist" organizations and it opens the door.
 
#86
#86
Chattaben said:
The Patriot Act gave the government the power to access your medical records, tax records, information about the books you buy or borrow without probable cause.

Examples of this happening?

The can enter your home and search it without you being present for any federal crime, including misdemeanors, without a warrant and not tell you for weeks, months, or ever.

Examples of this happening?

It set up a system where the government does not need a court order for wiretaps.

so they just start tapping away? for no apparent reason?

The right to privacy has decreased for average Americans whereas it makes it harder for Americans to find out what it's government is doing.

pretty vague statement here - anything to back it up?

All the government has to do is call a group an "enemy combatant" and you will lose all rights as an American citizen, no habeas corpus for you. Bye Bye due process.

Gee, seems like a high value AQ detainee is being released from Gitmo under habeas corpus - guess he wasn't an enemy combatant.

You really think this is "all the govt has to do" and you lose all rights as a citizen?

Google the name Brandon Mayfield. A US citizen and Muslim convert who was "linked" to the Madrid Train bombing was held for two weeks without being charged or allowed to see a lawyer. The FBI was able to search his house under provisions of the Patriot Act where the found "Spanish documents". The documents happened to be Spanish homework that belonged to his son.
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Finally, a specific example.

So, you must have been seriously angry with Obama for signing the PA reauthorization and for further destroying our rights with HC bill.

The mere scope of the HC bill vs. the PA makes it entirely more likely that people will be affected by the HC bill than the PA.
 
#87
#87
BigPapaVol said:
They are welcome to spy on me and tap my phone lines. The cool part us that doing so would actually prove my innocence in anything in which I might be implicated. Funny how that works.
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I'm shocked you guys feel this way. I'm not being flippant, I really am shocked. I thought you wanted less government intrusion into your lives?
 
#88
#88
VolInMn said:
I'm shocked you guys feel this way. I'm not being flippant, I really am shocked. I thought you wanted less government intrusion into your lives?
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Intrusion? You totally don't get it. Less Gov't control over our lives. Listening to my phone call isn't controlling my life or list of choices. Man o man.
 
#89
#89
VolInMn said:
I'm shocked you guys feel this way. I'm not being flippant, I really am shocked. I thought you wanted less government intrusion into your lives?
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how are they intruding into my life if i don't know they are doing it?
 
#90
#90
VolInMn said:
I'm shocked you guys feel this way. I'm not being flippant, I really am shocked. I thought you wanted less government intrusion into your lives?
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No. I want LESS government, period. Spying on me isn't intruding and doesn't bother me. However, it does require more government, which I am vehemently against. Finally, my safety from foreign threats is an express responsibility of our gov't. Fulfilling that works for me as a fed budget line item.

Not a hard debate for me, but I do happen to abide by the law, save the speed limits.
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#91
#91
hohenfelsvol said:
Intrusion? You totally don't get it. Less Gov't control over our lives. Listening to my phone call isn't controlling my life or list of choices. Man o man.
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So you have no problem with the government violating your privacy and keeping tabs on you.

You're right, I don't get it.
 
#92
#92
droski said:
how are they intruding into my life if i don't know they are doing it?
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That's like asking how cancer is intruding into your body if you don't know you have it. Just because you don't notice doesn't mean it isn't happening.
 
#94
#94
VolInMn said:
That's like asking how cancer is intruding into your body if you don't know you have it. Just because you don't notice doesn't mean it isn't happening.
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if said cancer wont kill me or hurt me in any way then yes it doesn't matter.
 
#95
#95
I don't want to be wiretapped. However, of the things the government is going to do I grant them more leeway in national defense then provision of goods/services.

In reality, the PA has virtually no chance of affecting me. The HC bill is another matter entirely. At a theoretical level they both intrude; at a practical level one's (HC) effect will be much more widespread.
 
#98
#98
volinbham said:
I don't want to be wiretapped. However, of the things the government is going to do I grant them more leeway in national defense then provision of goods/services.

In reality, the PA has virtually no chance of affecting me. The HC bill is another matter entirely. At a theoretical level they both intrude; at a practical level one's (HC) effect will be much more widespread.
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And dramatically more negative for the vast majority.
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#99
#99
VolInMn said:
So you tacitly trust the federal government in that you believe it wouldn't lead to anything worse.
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So you tacitly trust the federal government in taking over car companies, banks, and trying to take over health insurance and care in that you believe it wouldn't lead to anything worse?
 
#100
#100
VolInMn said:
So you tacitly trust the federal government in that you believe it wouldn't lead to anything worse.
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You make the government too large. I trust those professionals charged with defending the citizenry, not elected or appointed officials.

If those professionals are out to ruin us with their clandestine activity, repealing the Patriot act isn't going to do the least damn thing to protect me. The arguments against the PA ring hollow regardless of approach. It's just anti-Bush gibberish, bit I understand why it exists.

The HC disaster is simply going to be expensive senselessness and further absolve our populace of personal financial responsibility.
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