Americans Support Healthcare Bill's Passage

Yes, my original post put the blame on Bush and Obama. While some of these things have not occurred yet with the PA, the door is open and the potential for abuse in the future is there. While I do like some of the insurance reforms in the HC bill like the pre-existing conditions screening, I do not think that that the mandates will hold up in fed court. States can force people to buy car insurance but I can also choose not to drive. The federal govt forcing people to buy health insurance takes away the right for me to refuse to buy a service. My guess is that this will go to federal court and will be argued as an interstate commerce case. In the past the federal courts have generally ruled on the side of the fed in those cases but this is a new animal.

There is so much information and misinformation on this issue that it is hard to decipher at times. I look at it like this. When my roof has a hole in it, I call a roofer and pay him to fix it. When my car breaks down, I call a mechanic and pay him to do the work. Why is that if get sick that I call my insurance to see if they will cover it before I can go to a doctor? I can not negotiate prices with MDs anymore because I can't pay them the same money that they can get from an insurance company. Middle men always make things more expensive. And the more/better technology we have access we use, the more expensive it is.
 
You make the government too large. I trust those professionals charged with defending the citizenry, not elected or appointed officials.

Ah ok, I gotcha. You're differentiating between the police/FBI/whatever and the elected officials.

I don't agree with you, but I understand your point now.
 
So you tacitly trust the federal government in taking over car companies, banks, and trying to take over health insurance and care in that you believe it wouldn't lead to anything worse?

you're missing the point. he thinks all of that is good stuff.
 
There is so much information and misinformation on this issue that it is hard to decipher at times. I look at it like this. When my roof has a hole in it, I call a roofer and pay him to fix it. When my car breaks down, I call a mechanic and pay him to do the work. Why is that if get sick that I call my insurance to see if they will cover it before I can go to a doctor? I can not negotiate prices with MDs anymore because I can't pay them the same money that they can get from an insurance company. Middle men always make things more expensive. And the more/better technology we have access we use, the more expensive it is.

I have never done this. this information is usually covered in the guidelines they set forth, no?
 
you hvae really crappy insurance if you can't go to a doctor without calling your insurance company.
 
Middle men always make things more expensive.

A topic for another thread but I vehemently disagree with this statement. In most cases where there are middlemen or intermediaries, they tend to make the distribution system more efficient and reduce costs.
 
A topic for another thread but I vehemently disagree with this statement. In most cases where there are middlemen or intermediaries, they tend to make the distribution system more efficient and reduce costs.

depends who the buyer is. if the buyer cares about cost and is knowledable about the prices and products than eliminating the middle man can save money (think costco compared to krogers). unfortunetly the gov't doesnt' care about cost and doesnt' ahve the required knowledge.
 
depends who the buyer is. if the buyer cares about cost and is knowledable about the prices and products than eliminating the middle man can save money (think costco compared to krogers). unfortunetly the gov't doesnt' care about cost and doesnt' ahve the required knowledge.

Costco is still a middleman and they are shifting some costs on to the consumer (inventory and associated risk). The price may be lower but the costs for the same level of service may not.

In general I agree that it is the buyer's perspective that matters. They may not recognize the cost they are taking on or are willing to do so in exchange for a lower price.

The simplest explanation I can offer is that if removing middle men made things cheaper (total cost/not just price) then most distribution systems would be direct from manufacturer to end user.
 
Costco is still a middleman and they are shifting some costs on to the consumer (inventory and associated risk). The price may be lower but the costs for the same level of service may not.

In general I agree that it is the buyer's perspective that matters. They may not recognize the cost they are taking on or are willing to do so in exchange for a lower price.

The simplest explanation I can offer is that if removing middle men made things cheaper (total cost/not just price) then most distribution systems would be direct from manufacturer to end user.
But distributors, unless value added, are headed to dodo bird land. They served a purpose years ago and still do in some industries, but they are getting fewer as the ultimate seller is taking over that role and is a better marketer. Wal Mart is leading the charge in that arena. Those that remain long term will have a legal loophole that protects their existence, like beer distributors.
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So you have no problem with the government violating your privacy and keeping tabs on you.

You're right, I don't get it.

No I don't have a problem if it keeps my wife, son, our brave soldiers and your narrow liberal ass safe.
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But distributors, unless value added, are headed to dodo bird land. They served a purpose years ago and still do in some industries, but they are getting fewer as the ultimate seller is taking over that role and is a better marketer. Wal Mart is leading the charge in that arena. Those that remain long term will have a legal loophole that protects their existence, like beer distributors.
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I agree but most of what I'm seeing is the full service distributor being fragmented into specialty intermediaries (e.g. UPS now does sorting and assortment creation, receivables financing, etc. in addition to transportation). There will be a shakeout no doubt but in most cases other types of intermediaries are filling in rather than everything moving to direct distribution.

A lot of manufacturers thought going direct would be sweet until they realized the costs of transacting with individual customers and fulfilling orders simply wasn't worth it. It was a lot easy to dump products into the channel and get paid before end user demand was realized.
 
I appreciate that, and I appreciate you being man enough to say it even though you totally disagree with my politics. Thanks!
 
It should be recognized no matter what you back politically.
Your service along with many others gives the the freedom to disagree with you, and many others.
 

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