Amnesty Bill SHOT DOWN!!!

#126
#126
Seriamente, esto no es una cuestión humorística. ¡Mi español no es que bueno pero yo sepa lo que sé, nosotros necesitan asegurar nuestras fronteras!
 
#127
#127
Teddyhead said:
CS, are you for securing our borders or not? Just answer yes or no? And don't try and be crazy like Bush and say we need a guest worker program (when we already have eight of them) to secure our porous border. Yeah, great one Bush, you sellout to Mexico. A guest worker program is sure going to stop the millions of illegals from crossing our border annually.
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Well clearly had you taken time to actually read the bill you despised so much would have seen where there were numerous additional provisions for more fencing, border patrol, aerial recon planes, cameras, etc. to add to the efforts to secure the borders. Had you paid attention you'd note I've always been for comprehensive reform. This bill ADDED to securing the borders in addition to numerous other items.

And I hate to break this to you but we already have a guest worker program. Again had you been on top of the facts in this issue, you'd have noted that it's red tape clogging up that program and only allowing a small amount of people through when hundreds more are needed.

Free advice...read the bill. I know it's hard to do and all but you'd realize that this bill was not what the kool aid crowd said it was.
 
#131
#131
I said it's useless to solely rely on that as the only method of "reform". You and others are banking solely on a fence to save us all from this plague of illegals. Considering a fence that can be climbed over, dug under or just walked around and only covers a third of the border, I'd say relying on that is weak. And considering the ones advocating this are the ones saying they have no confidence the government can or will do this, I'd say someone needs a logic and reason check. Why put faith in only one thing you have no confidence in? That makes no sense.
 
#132
#132
CSpindizzy said:
Free advice...read the bill. I know it's hard to do and all but you'd realize that this bill was not what the kool aid crowd said it was.
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Why can't one be opposed to this bill without being told that you just don't understand the issue?
 
#134
#134
CSpindizzy said:
I said it's useless to solely rely on that as the only method of "reform". You and others are banking solely on a fence to save us all from this plague of illegals. Considering a fence that can be climbed over, dug under or just walked around and only covers a third of the border, I'd say relying on that is weak. And considering the ones advocating this are the ones saying they have no confidence the government can or will do this, I'd say someone needs a logic and reason check. Why put faith in only one thing you have no confidence in? That makes no sense.
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Wow. YOU accused ME of assuming things. Where have I said I am banking solely on a fence?
 
#135
#135
CSpindizzy said:
Well clearly had you taken time to actually read the bill you despised so much would have seen where there were numerous additional provisions for more fencing, border patrol, aerial recon planes, cameras, etc. to add to the efforts to secure the borders. Had you paid attention you'd note I've always been for comprehensive reform. This bill ADDED to securing the borders in addition to numerous other items.

And I hate to break this to you but we already have a guest worker program. Again had you been on top of the facts in this issue, you'd have noted that it's red tape clogging up that program and only allowing a small amount of people through when hundreds more are needed.

Free advice...read the bill. I know it's hard to do and all but you'd realize that this bill was not what the kool aid crowd said it was.
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You call allowing a million people in annually (just on visas and not including the two million a year let in legally) a small amount? Ok… Oh yeah, you still haven’t answered my question from earlier. Last year congress passed legislation approving an additional 800 miles of border fence. To date only 13 miles has been completed. So, are we really going to believe a do nothing congress again? Who do they think we are? Oh that’s right, stupid Americans they can con while protecting the interests of foreign conglomerates and cheap labor. Bravo my beautiful elected officials! Bravo!

P.S. Have you read all 900+ pages? Are you willing to swear on the Vols that you have?
 
#137
#137
Seriously though, I agree with GA on this one, my thoughts may differ from allvol, among others, but I also have debated this topic with him enough to realize he has a good grasp on the issue.
 
#139
#139
allvol123 said:
Here's a good one for you

Allvol123 News - Mexican population is protruding into US
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I read that....it said people who only think this is about Mexicans are idiots. It also said people who think those trying to get in will be stopped by a cheap fence are idiots as well. My dog can figure out how to get out of a fence. Considering illegals are risking life by walking through 100 degree temps in the desert and mountains, I'd say a little ol' fence won't stop them.

It really doesn't shock me that you wouldn't read the article that puts a hole in your only hope. But keep living in your dream world. While you're waiting for those agents to be hired and trained and that fence to be built, a few million more illegals will be across the border into the US.
 
#140
#140
I think that was half the problem the bill had. The President and Congress took a "Go along with it. We know what's good for you" approach.
 
#141
#141
CSpindizzy said:
I said it's useless to solely rely on that as the only method of "reform". You and others are banking solely on a fence to save us all from this plague of illegals. Considering a fence that can be climbed over, dug under or just walked around and only covers a third of the border, I'd say relying on that is weak. And considering the ones advocating this are the ones saying they have no confidence the government can or will do this, I'd say someone needs a logic and reason check. Why put faith in only one thing you have no confidence in? That makes no sense.
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I am not banking "solely" on the fence to save us. But before we start talking about letting 20+ million people stay here indefinitely shouldn't we secure the border? Or should we just leave it open and let the next Mohammad Atta in?
 
#142
#142
CSpindizzy said:
I read that....it said people who only think this is about Mexicans are idiots. It also said people who think those trying to get in will be stopped by a cheap fence are idiots as well. My dog can figure out how to get out of a fence. Considering illegals are risking life by walking through 100 degree temps in the desert and mountains, I'd say a little ol' fence won't stop them.

It really doesn't shock me that you wouldn't read the article that puts a hole in your only hope. But keep living in your dream world. While you're waiting for those agents to be hired and trained and that fence to be built, a few million more illegals will be across the border into the US.
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I think you read the wrong article. And again with the assuming. You are really rolling.
 
#143
#143
Teddyhead said:
I am not banking "solely" on the fence to save us. But before we start talking about letting 20+ million people stay here indefinitely shouldn't we secure the border? Or should we just leave it open and let the next Mohammad Atta in?
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Yes you are, Cspinn has final say about this.
 
#144
#144
GAVol said:
Why can't one be opposed to this bill without being told that you just don't understand the issue?
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because the ones I refer to have refused to read the bill or completely explain how their side can/will solve the problem. When you challenge people to actually explain how they will carry out their plan or show where this bill gives amnesty and the only response is childish comments, I'd say I have reason to say that.

It's a simple process. If you are so adamant about a cause that you mock the other side, at least be able to back up your side and prove how the other side is wrong. I've yet to see where amnesty is in this bill. I've asked repeatedly for someone to show me the exact section of the bill grants amnesty.

I have no problem with those who disagree with this bill BUT have the ability to argue logical and factual reasons this bill is weak and their view is better. But don't blast my viewpoint and only say "enforce the border first" and not be able to explain that or show me where this bill grants amnesty.
 
#145
#145
CSpindizzy said:
I read that....it said people who only think this is about Mexicans are idiots. It also said people who think those trying to get in will be stopped by a cheap fence are idiots as well. My dog can figure out how to get out of a fence. Considering illegals are risking life by walking through 100 degree temps in the desert and mountains, I'd say a little ol' fence won't stop them.

It really doesn't shock me that you wouldn't read the article that puts a hole in your only hope. But keep living in your dream world. While you're waiting for those agents to be hired and trained and that fence to be built, a few million more illegals will be across the border into the US.
Click to expand...


Dude, do you have any clue what type of fence we are talking about? No you surely do not. The fence that was supposed to be built was a double fence that the most determined commandos would have trouble with. Get real, the whole "oh they will just have a latter" is a cheap tactic that is completely baseless! Your dog wouldn't get anywhere. Oh yeah at 3 million dollars a mile the fence is hardly "cheap."
 
#146
#146
emainvol said:
Seriously though, I agree with GA on this one, my thoughts may differ from allvol, among others, but I also have debated this topic with him enough to realize he has a good grasp on the issue.
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Thank you emain. Cspinn is a level headed guy as well but seems very condescending on this thread for some reason.
 
#147
#147
CSpindizzy said:
because the ones I refer to have refused to read the bill or completely explain how their side can/will solve the problem. When you challenge people to actually explain how they will carry out their plan or show where this bill gives amnesty and the only response is childish comments, I'd say I have reason to say that.

It's a simple process. If you are so adamant about a cause that you mock the other side, at least be able to back up your side and prove how the other side is wrong. I've yet to see where amnesty is in this bill. I've asked repeatedly for someone to show me the exact section of the bill grants amnesty.

I have no problem with those who disagree with this bill BUT have the ability to argue logical and factual reasons this bill is weak and their view is better. But don't blast my viewpoint and only say "enforce the border first" and not be able to explain that or show me where this bill grants amnesty.
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Again, would you be willing to swear on the Bible that you have read all 900+ pages? Come on answer me! Did you read all 900+ pages or not? Huh did you?
 
#148
#148
Teddyhead said:
¿Usted está para las fronteras abiertas? ¿Para permitir cada uno en nuestro país? :ermm:
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Well, I think I will switch back to english, for everyone else's sake.

The short answer to your question is yes, but I do not really have the time to delve further. I will say that basically I think that as long as their intentions are good, which I would like to think most are, I do not mind their coming here.
 
#150
#150
Hmm, the fence sure works in Israel! There’s a concept!
But I am the stupid one.... Riiiiiiiiiiiiight................
 
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