And then the Trumpsters on VN had no idea what to say....

#51
#51
AM64 said:
A lot of our youth vote goes to the libs, so in a way it's simple consequences. Voters who've never had to be responsible for themselves aren't going the be the ones who connect the dots between spending and debt.
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Agreed. But adults should have taught them basic logic. The failure of youth is on the generation that raised them.
 
#52
#52
zeppelin128 said:
Voting totals on the current relief package:
House: 359-53
Senate: 92-6

I know everyone likes to pile on Democrats on the board, and that is cool, whatever. But last I checked, there are not 359 or 92 Dems in Congress. These are overwhelming bipartisan margins. If folks are going to attack Dems over this, you better be attacking Republicans in the same damn sentence unless you are just a blatant hypocritical partisan hack.
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Of course, it passed with big numbers. It's a popular issue for most people, so congress sees it as a perfect vehicle to pass the paybacks they owe for the bribes they've accepted.
 
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#53
#53
volfanhill said:
Agreed. But adults should have taught them basic logic. The failure of youth is on the generation that raised them.
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I agree with that, but as a parent it's gotten harder and harder to counter liberal teaching. I'm not talking completely about what comes from education, but what comes from friends and especially social media. Our sons are honest, intelligent, well educated, with professional jobs, but both are definitely more liberal than my wife and me. I found it hard to counter all the "wisdom" that came from their friends twenty years ago; I can't even imagine the battle parents today have in instilling values that matter.

I guess to support my thoughts about that I'd have to look at the antiwar generation that the Viet Nam war generated. Those kids (my generation) were the children of the people who fought WW2. To me that was something I could never reconcile, and a huge gap in thinking between me and a huge portion of my generation. I don't think you could ever accuse "the greatest generation" of intentionally misguiding or neglecting their children's values, but once the family goes from nuclear to children being fed new ideas by other kids and educators, a lot of wisdom goes down the drain.
 
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#55
#55
AM64 said:
I agree with that, but as a parent it's gotten harder and harder to counter liberal teaching. I'm not talking completely about what comes from education, but what comes from friends and especially social media. Our sons are honest, intelligent, well educated, with professional jobs, but both are definitely more liberal than my wife and me. I found it hard to counter all the "wisdom" that came from their friends twenty years ago; I can't even imagine the battle parents today have in instilling values that matter.
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Agreed. My wife is liberal leaning. My kid is only nine so work in progress. It's a challenge for sure. I preach logic a lot. My wife is on board regarding spending. She freaking hates GOP interference on abortion and resistance to social change to acceptance. She does trip up when I ask her about a fathers right to a kid someone might abort. She struggles with that.
 
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#56
#56
volfanhill said:
Agreed. My wife is liberal leaning. My kid is only nine so work in progress. It's a challenge for sure. I preach logic a lot. My wife is on board regarding spending. She freaking hates GOP interference on abortion and resistance to social change to acceptance. She does trip up when I ask her about a fathers right to a kid someone might abort. She struggles with that.
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To me fiscal conservatism in politics is like trying to be a relatively strict parent. It's just hard to compete with parents or politicians who attempt to buy favor - or take the easy way out on hard choices. It's why I say that since the first politician started selling pork for votes, fiscal conservatism in US politics was dead, and there's no hope for resurrection.
 
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#63
#63
Here's a question I have for those who support the idea of checks. This year we will have handed out around $1,800. Is that really helping? In a year. No one isn't losing their house over $1,800 bucks. Or preventing eviction. So it's just kicking their can down the road. It's not a long term fix. At best this pandemic is over in June. IMO this is just proof that everyone needs to understand it's not the .gov job to protect you. If you are worried stay home. Capitalism would have handled this just fine. My industry would still take one on the chin. But it would have been ok. But lockdowns.
 
#64
#64
The problem with this entire thing is that they slapped the appropriations bill for 2021 on the Covid relief package. Hence the pork extravaganza.
 
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#65
#65
lawgator1 said:
Trump just threatened to veto the stimulus bill unless Congress amends it to make the personal checks $2k to $4k, up from the $600 in the bill.

Wow. What are Trumpsters going to say now??? They CLAIM to hate spending. They CLAIM to hate aid to folks that could work. They CLAIM such spending is a work disincentive.

Trumpsters scrambling to come up with a way to say he's not a complete lunatic.
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Damn. He’s trying to buy support. He is a Democrat after all!
 
#66
#66
zeppelin128 said:
The problem with this entire thing is that they slapped the appropriations bill for 2021 on the Covid relief package. Hence the pork extravaganza.
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The president and 6 GOP representatives opposed this mess. What does that leave us?
 
#68
#68
I'm not in support of the stimulus checks. I think there should be a contingency plan for a halt on evictions and utility companies and rent for a month or two. I also support the 300$ UI increase. A lot of businesses are closing as a result on the ramifications of this year. The employees and owners need help. That's a proven fact.

If you're in the "let them go back to work" camp... sure. Fact is, people need help to make up for the restrictions on businesses placed this year. You can't just tell that group to **** off.
 
#69
#69
volfanhill said:
Here's a question I have for those who support the idea of checks. This year we will have handed out around $1,800. Is that really helping? In a year. No one isn't losing their house over $1,800 bucks. Or preventing eviction. So it's just kicking their can down the road. It's not a long term fix. At best this pandemic is over in June. IMO this is just proof that everyone needs to understand it's not the .gov job to protect you. If you are worried stay home. Capitalism would have handled this just fine. My industry would still take one on the chin. But it would have been ok. But lockdowns.
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You know as well as I do that your baseline employees have been collectively ****ed for the whole year. You can't have governors placing restrictions with zero contingency supplements and expect them to go on.
 
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#71
#71
AM64 said:
I agree with that, but as a parent it's gotten harder and harder to counter liberal teaching. I'm not talking completely about what comes from education, but what comes from friends and especially social media. Our sons are honest, intelligent, well educated, with professional jobs, but both are definitely more liberal than my wife and me. I found it hard to counter all the "wisdom" that came from their friends twenty years ago; I can't even imagine the battle parents today have in instilling values that matter.

I guess to support my thoughts about that I'd have to look at the antiwar generation that the Viet Nam war generated. Those kids (my generation) were the children of the people who fought WW2. To me that was something I could never reconcile, and a huge gap in thinking between me and a huge portion of my generation. I don't think you could ever accuse "the greatest generation" of intentionally misguiding or neglecting their children's values, but once the family goes from nuclear to children being fed new ideas by other kids and educators, a lot of wisdom goes down the drain.
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It’s far worse than even you say. Kids aren’t just getting new ideas from friends and educators now. They all have cell phones and tablets at far too young ages so their ideas are coming from the internet and whatever advertising they see in games. It’s not online porn and social media parents should fear regarding allowing kids to have phones and tablets parents. Those things are easily blocked. It’s just too much for young minds to have at their fingertips anytime they want and parents have no idea what messages are coming through to their kids. That’s the danger.
 
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#72
#72
My best bartender friends have lost out on anywhere from twenty to fifty grand this year because they shut them down with no safety net. Does a one time check of half their weekly pay fix a single ****ing thing? No. They don't have salaries.

Those numbers are small to some of us. It's everything to them. It's rent, food, and quality of life. I know some of you only give a **** about them when you need a bud light at Applebee's, but it's a stupid amount of American citizens that need immediate relief. Both sides have **** the bed all year.
 
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#73
#73
DinkinFlicka said:
I'm not in support of the stimulus checks. I think there should be a contingency plan for a halt on evictions and utility companies and rent for a month or two. I also support the 300$ UI increase. A lot of businesses are closing as a result on the ramifications of this year. The employees and owners need help. That's a proven fact.

If you're in the "let them go back to work" camp... sure. Fact is, people need help to make up for the restrictions on businesses placed this year. You can't just tell that group to **** off.
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I believe there was $24 billion earmarked for helping folks with rent/mortgage, which is a solid part of the bill. Honestly I think that is the most important part of the bill, helping folks be able to stay in their home instead of being evicted and homeless, which causes a complete other cluster**** of problems. The broader question is that if you are going to have states in quarantine, someone is going to have to pony up. And $600 ain't gonna cut it.
 
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