Another Mass Shooting - Philly Fireworks

#177
#177
allvol123 said:
Yea. This would be like examining a workplace death where heavy machinery was involved and coming to the conclusion that we need to do away with heavy machinery.

Root cause people.
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It would be even dumber to examine a workplace death where heavy machinery was involved and ignore the fact that there may very well be rational and reasonable changes that can be made to the machinery that would reduce the chances of future death.
 
#178
#178
luthervol said:
It would be even dumber to examine a workplace death where heavy machinery was involved and ignore the fact that there may very well be rational and reasonable changes that can be made to the machinery that would reduce the chances of future death.
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And the heavy machinery will be vital to the operation staying open. Can’t work without it.
 
#179
#179
hog88 said:
With you and OH the conversation begins and ends with bans and more restrictions so there isn’t a reason to open the door to conversation with people like you.
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That's absurd. You are just looking for reason to shut the door.
 
#180
#180
Vol8188 said:
Seems you should have to show evidence of a problem before attempting to ban things. The data goes against your claims
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The evidence has been shown multiple times and the data supports the claims.
You claiming otherwise is inconsequential.
 
#181
#181
luthervol said:
It would be even dumber to examine a workplace death where heavy machinery was involved and ignore the fact that there may very well be rational and reasonable changes that can be made to the machinery that would reduce the chances of future death.
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With if the states with the most machinery per capita have no correlation with homicides? Would it be fair to say those machines are not the problem?
 
#183
#183
Vol8188 said:
With if the states with the most machinery per capita have no correlation with homicides? Would it be fair to say those machines are not the problem?
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Nope. Not if there is a mutilated body lying in the machine and it could have been avoided.
 
#189
#189
luthervol said:
It would be even dumber to examine a workplace death where heavy machinery was involved and ignore the fact that there may very well be rational and reasonable changes that can be made to the machinery that would reduce the chances of future death.
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So there’s no correlation between the machinery and the death and the actual function of the machinery is death, but we need to change the machinery?
 
#190
#190
allvol123 said:
You do. But you fully accept that death from them will occur because the advantages created from them far outweigh the negatives of not using them.
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Whoever called for the elimination of guns? Certainly not me.
 
#194
#194
LouderVol said:
Yes. Because one side has given up a whole bunch already in the name of compromise despite an enumerated right. Which is why the SC has been ruling as it has.

And the other side is angry because their misplaced beliefs will always believe just one more rational and reasonable encroachment will do the trick.

If you want a discussion start with actual hard, definable, goals and stats as what would be acceptable. The anti2A crowd refuses to get specific. Why would the 2A crowd agree to unspecific terms as defined by people self recognized as ignorant on the matter?
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This idea I have bolded is an example of what I’m trying to point out is wrong. There is hardly ever black and white on any issue. The dichotomous line of thinking has to stop. I’ll use myself and my own perspective as an example to clarify.

I grew up in Mountain City TN. I was always around guns, they have always been a part of my life. I feel comfortable around them, I’m an avid hunter and I enjoy sport shooting, I also have some solely for personal protection. I own dozens. I do not expect to give them up, and would fight to keep them. I am extremely in tune with what the second amendment is, why it was written, and what it means to us 250 years later. I like the 2nd amendment.

As an adult, I have realized that many of my views, especially on social issues, lean liberal, but that is not in absolution. I have children, I work in healthcare, I’ve dealt with gun trauma victims and their families, I have empathy for these victims of gun violence. I also recognize there are cultural and mental health factors at play here. It is impossible for me to not consider these things when I think about gun laws, and clearly America has a problem to solve.

Personally I’m torn on this issue. I know that our rights are there for a reason, they have been made nearly impossible to amend in this country for a reason. On the other hand, the status quo is unacceptable to me. The amount of gun violence is unacceptable and the ease with which any Tom, Dick, or Harry can head down to the local store and buy semi-autos with huge magazines with mass murder on their mind is unacceptable to me. I was always taught that gun ownership is a deadly serious responsibility, and when others don’t treat it the same way it’s unacceptable to me.

Now, I know this perspective is unique to me, and I own it… but I’m willing to bet there are many others who can relate. There are also those who won’t relate as well leaning more one way or the other. Regardless, this conversation needs to be had. I’m all ears on solutions, but standing back and watching school shootings every couple weeks or months is unacceptable to me, and I can’t believe that it would be acceptable to any of you fine folks.

So please, can we stop the “2A vs anti-2A” charade and actually hear each other out?
 
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#195
#195
OHvol40 said:
This idea I have bolded is an example of what I’m trying to point out is wrong. There is hardly ever black and white on any issue. The dichotomous line of thinking has to stop. I’ll use myself and my own perspective as an example to clarify.

I grew up in Mountain City TN. I was always around guns, they have always been a part of my life. I feel comfortable around them, I’m an avid hunter and I enjoy sport shooting, I also have some solely for personal protection. I own dozens. I do not expect to give them up, and would fight to keep them. I am extremely in tune with what the second amendment is, why it was written, and what it means to us 250 years later. I like the 2nd amendment.

As an adult, I have realized that many of my views, especially on social issues, lean liberal, but that is not in absolution. I have children, I work in healthcare, I’ve dealt with gun trauma victims and their families, I have empathy for these victims of gun violence. I also recognize there are cultural and mental health factors at play here. It is impossible for me to not consider these things when I think about gun laws, and clearly America has a problem to solve.

Personally I’m torn on this issue. I know that our rights are there for a reason, they have been made nearly impossible to amend in this country for a reason. On the other hand, the status quo is unacceptable to me. The amount of gun violence is unacceptable and these ease with which any Tom, Dick, or Harry can head down to the local store and buy semi-autos with huge magazines with mass murder on their mind is unacceptable to me. I was always taught that gun ownership is a deadly serious responsibility, and when others don’t treat it the same way it’s unacceptable to me.

Now, I know this perspective is unique to me, and I own it… but I’m willing to bet there are many others who can relate. There are also those who won’t relate as well leaning more one way or the other. Regardless, this conversation needs to be had. I’m all ears on solutions, but standing back and watching school shootings every couple weeks or months is unacceptable to me, and I can’t believe that it would be acceptable to any of you fine folks.

So please, can we stop the “2A vs anti-2A” charade and actually hear each other out?
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Ok, the door is open. If you had the power what would you do, please be specific.
 
#196
#196
Roe V. Wade passed in 1973. Roughly 50 years later States pass laws allowing abortion up to and including natural birth. That is the definition of a slippery slope. Allowing a foot in the door with the word ban written on it is not ANYTHING I would entertain.
 
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