Anthony Bourdain Found Dead

#102
#102
VolsSportsFan said:
Just because a lot of people believe something, doesn’t make it true.
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Exactly. Yet you believe your opinion is "true" and everyone is wrong/ignorant.

Are you now arguing that suicide is never selfish?

Some think leaving your wife and daughter behind without a dad/husband is selfish. Could Bourdain have had personal reasons or issues that outweigh that? Sure. Maybe. But I don't know that for a fact, and neither do you. Therefore I believe both opinions are valid.... opinions.
 
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#103
#103
VolsSportsFan said:
Nm. Not even worth it to waste my time.
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Interesting.

I was just asking the question. Your response is a bit "arrogant" and "high-and-mighty", don't you think? lol.

Seriously though, I'm not sure where the disconnect is. You've acknowledged there are many factors to consider in these situations. The same rules you applied to those calling the act selfish, also apply those calling it 'not selfish'.

VolsSportsFan said:
You mean like declaring something is a selfish act despite not knowing anything about was going on in his brain, how much help he tried to get, or anything involving it? You mean that kind of ignorance. You can't accuse me of ignorance yet do what you just did. At best by your own logic, we're both ignorant.

Of course his daughter would beg him; she's already likely the reason he didn't do this 10 years ago. People throw out stuff like this yet ignore that family and friends probably are the reason they've hung on as long as they have.

What caused his depression? I have no idea. Depression has tons of likely causes. He had admitted drug problems in the past, they could have led to it or he may have been taking drugs to cope with it. After all that has been discovered about depression, there is still many things not known and every case is different, so maybe it would be more beneficial to not put judgement labels on the actions of an irrational mind state.
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Also, I don't think anyone is attempting to marginalize the struggles of depression, which I can assure you are very real.
 
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#104
#104
Even Bourdain himself calls suicide selfish in his last interview.

“I also do feel I have things to live for,” Bourdain explained. “There have been times, honestly, in my life that I figured, ‘I’ve had a good run — why not just do this stupid thing, this selfish thing… jump off a cliff into water of indeterminate depth,’” he said, recalling something he said he’d once done for his Travel Channel show.

He also described how, before his daughter’s arrival, he would “go to places” where “I was, frankly, asking for trouble. It was a daredevil move.”

But now, “in retrospect, I don’t know that I would do that today — now that I’m a dad or reasonably happy.”
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Anthony Bourdain's final PEOPLE interview: Happy, have things to live for | EW.com
 
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#106
#106
Freak said:
Interesting.

I was just asking the question. Your response is a bit arrogant and high-and-mighty, don't you think?

Seriously though, I'm not sure where the disconnect is. You've acknowledged there are many factors to consider in these situations. The same rules you applied to those calling the act selfish, also apply those calling it 'not selfish'.



Also, I don't think anyone is attempting to marginalize the struggles of depression, which I can assure you are very real.
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I mean if you want to equate me and hog88 being on the same level of “high and mighty” and arrogant, then knock yourself out. I’m not wasting my time trying to change your mind.

And thanks but I don’t need your assurance about depression, I have my own struggle I’ve dealt with for 10 years.
 
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#107
#107
Freak said:
Exactly. Yet you believe your opinion is "true" and everyone is wrong/ignorant.

Are you now arguing that suicide is never selfish?

Some think leaving your wife and daughter behind without a dad/husband is selfish. Could Bourdain have had personal reasons or issues that outweigh that? Sure. Maybe. But I don't know that for a fact, and neither do you. Therefore I believe both opinions are valid.... opinions.
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I’ve already stated in this thread instances of suicide I would consider selfish. I think I’ve made it clear that automatically labeling a suicide by a depression person as “selfish” is wrong. And that is exactly what several people in this thread have done and say the depression part doesn’t matter at all.
 
#108
#108
VolsSportsFan said:
I mean if you want to equate me and hog88 being on the same level of “high and mighty” and arrogant, then knock yourself out. I’m not wasting my time trying to change your mind.

And thanks but I don’t need your assurance about depression, I have my own struggle I’ve dealt with for 10 years.
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I’m sure many of us on here have. That doesn’t mean you’re the Alpha and Omega when it comes to this topic. You’ve got some weird superiority complex.
 
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#109
#109
VolsSportsFan said:
I’ve already stated in this thread instances of suicide I would consider selfish. I think I’ve made it clear that automatically labeling a suicide by a depression person as “selfish” is wrong. And that is exactly what several people in this thread have done and say the depression part doesn’t matter at all.
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I don't remember seeing anyone say that.
 
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#110
#110
VolsSportsFan said:
He isn’t talking about suicide in what you bolded.
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As I re-read it, I guess you could debate that he's talking about risky actions, but the way it's worded it's pretty clear he's talking about doing things that could end his life. But you're right, he doesn't specifically say suicide.
 
#111
#111
VolsSportsFan said:
I mean if you want to equate me and hog88 being on the same level of “high and mighty” and arrogant, then knock yourself out. I’m not wasting my time trying to change your mind.

And thanks but I don’t need your assurance about depression, I have my own struggle I’ve dealt with for 10 years.
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I see, so calling others' names is a perfectly wise use of time, but when asked for further discussion, it's a waste of time? Got it.

I don't care if you need my assurance or not. You're missing the point as usual. You seem to be going out of your way to defend depression when I don't see anyone trying to argue that those struggles aren't real.
 
#113
#113
Freak said:
The depression part may or may not matter. I think the argument is depression doesn't automatically remove the selfish part. It may or may not. As you pointed out, every situation is different.
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Cool then we agree; and apparently you agree automatically labeling a suicide as "selfish" is wrong, as several in this thread have done.
 
#114
#114
Freak said:
I must be reading it wrong then. What's he talking about.
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He was talking about doing dangerous things while he was out filming; read the whole thing

‘I’ve had a good run — why not just do this stupid thing, this selfish thing… jump off a cliff into water of indeterminate depth,’” he said, recalling something he said he’d once done for his Travel Channel show.
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He's referencing "stunts" for lack of a better term he had done for his show. If you want to make a connection to suicide, fine, but that's not what he was talking about there.

Also, even if he was, it's not like it's strange that a person with depession has massive mood swings and one day may appear fine and coherent and happy and days later they appear to be struggling to survive.
 
#115
#115
VolsSportsFan said:
Cool then we agree; and apparently you agree automatically labeling a suicide as "selfish" is wrong, as several in this thread have done.
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That's your opinion. People are free to view suicide as selfish if they wish, just as people are free to believe that having depression frees them from any responsibility.

I don't believe innocent until proven guilty applies in the court of public opinion.
 
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#116
#116
VolsSportsFan said:
He was talking about doing dangerous things while he was out filming; read the whole thing



He's referencing "stunts" for lack of a better term he had done for his show. If you want to make a connection to suicide, fine, but that's not what he was talking about there.

Also, even if he was, it's not like it's strange that a person with depession has massive mood swings and one day may appear fine and coherent and happy and days later they appear to be struggling to survive.
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I corrected my post above. I still think he's talking about suicide, but I do acknowledge it doesn't specifically come out and say it. I still think in context, it's pretty clear what he means.

You believe that depression alleviates responsibility to a child and spouse. That's your opinion, and a valid one. Not everyone agrees. It doesn't make anyone high and mighty or arrogant.
 
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#117
#117
VolsSportsFan said:
You just said him taking his life was selfish, no matter if he had depression or not.
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It might have been selfish, whether he had depression or not. You've already acknowledged specific cases you would view as selfish. So by your own admission, depression may or may not be the deciding factor here.
 
#118
#118
VolsSportsFan said:
You just said him taking his life was selfish, no matter if he had depression or not.
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That's different than "depression doesn't matter at all". Good grief.

1995 my girlfriend was being treated for depression. It was terrible dealing with it. Her note to her parents and me didn't sound selfish. It was. Poor us though, right?

His suicide was selfish.
 
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#119
#119
Behr said:
That's different than "depression doesn't matter at all". Good grief.

1995 my girlfriend was being treated for depression. It was terrible dealing with it. Her note to her parents and me didn't sound selfish. It was. Poor us though, right?

His suicide was selfish.
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Oh, so it was about you then? And because I've stated that the ones left behind don't matter, right?

Jfc.
 
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#120
#120
Freak said:
That's your opinion. People are free to view suicide as selfish if they wish, just as people are free to believe that having depression frees them from any responsibility.

I don't believe innocent until proven guilty applies in the court of public opinion.
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That's great, if all opinions were equal. They are not. I'm sure I could give plenty of examples that you would agree with, and it has nothing to do with one having the "freedom" to have said opinions.
 
#122
#122
Freak said:
It's not wrong. It's an opinion.
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True, but it's still a broad generalization. Again, I think it's a rational conclusion of survivors drawn based on what has to be considered an irrational act by someone who is in some state of suffering. I don't know how anyone can reach an authoritative conclusion based on that.
 
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#124
#124
hog88 said:
Even if he was "depressed" the guy had the resources to get help. Doing that to his kid is unconscionable.
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You don't know much about depression do you? And you were just asked how much you know about his personal life and what he did and did not do, and you claimed you didn't need to know. Now you're saying he clearly didn't try to get help, which you have no way of knowing.
 
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