Anti-Trump Hysteria and Silliness

[tumscalcium]

Masculinity and feminity are expressions of gender. Gender is influenced by culture and defined by personal opinion. Biological sex is determined by chromosomes. You are picking at my argument from the notion that gender and biological sex are the same thing. I don't think they are.

Penis = man.

Vagina = woman.

This isn’t difficult.

 

[DC_Vol]

With that said, would you call an anorexic fat to politely agree with their delusion?

This sentence much more succinctly sums up the point I was trying to make. Thank you.

 

[C-south]

Masculinity and feminity are expressions of gender. Gender is influenced by culture and defined by personal opinion. Biological sex is determined by chromosomes. You are picking at my argument from the notion that gender and biological sex are the same thing. I don't think they are.

No. Sex and gender are the same thing. It’s like being asked your age vs your date of birth.

 

[zeppelin128]

I am picking at your argument that it didn't make the point you inferred it would when making your argument. It's nothing personal, nor earth shattering. You claimed gender is different than sex (in support of normalizing gender dysphoria) and varying gender definitions across cultures support this. You actually meant that men are men across the planet when it comes to both sex and gender, it's just that opinions per masculinity expression change.

In other words, men are men around the globe and women are women around the globe even if men don't limp into bars and call people "pilgrim".

Well, like I said earlier... Duh.

Your example actually tells us that we should consider effeminate men to be men and butch women to be women.

If that is what they identify as, sure.

I can't argue your point because you think biological sex and gender are the same thing. I don't. What you are calling masculinity and feminity for biological sexes is what I am calling a gender spectrum. And we are both looking at this through a Western lens, so yes my opinion will be affected by that.

We might be agreeing here, just using different terminology.

 

[zeppelin128]

Penis = man.

Vagina = woman.

This isn’t difficult.

So you are saying that someone that has a sex change operation is the sex they transitioned into? That is very progressive of you, Comrade.

 

[Orange_Crush]

If that is what they identify as, sure.

I can't argue your point because you think biological sex and gender are the same thing. I don't. What you are calling masculinity and feminity for biological sexes is what I am calling a gender spectrum. And we are both looking at this through a Western lens, so yes my opinion will be affected by that.

We might be agreeing here, just using different terminology.

I am looking at it through your example, of two men holding hands being considered by their culture as two men. If your gender identification merely means that there is a spectrum of more or less "effeminate" men, then, like I said, fine. There are more and less effeminate men in the US as well. They're men and considered men.

If your definition of gender has nothing to do with gender-sex, and only how the sex acts, then what in the world does it have to do with the trans discussion? Just to tell us men don't all act alike?

 

[tumscalcium]

So you are saying that someone that has a sex change operation is the sex they transitioned into? That is very progressive of you, Comrade.

Negative. There’s internal plumbing as well along with real ones and fake ones.

It’s baby steps. I’m trying to get you to understand the basics first. Your post means you have to start over at the beginning.

 

[zeppelin128]

I am looking at it through your example, of two men holding hands being considered by their culture as two men. If your gender identification merely means that there is a spectrum of more or less "effeminate" men, then, like I said, fine. There are more and less effeminate men in the US as well. They're men and considered men.

If your definition of gender has nothing to do with gender-sex, and only how the sex acts, then what in the world does it have to do with the trans discussion? Just to tell us men don't all act alike?

I used that example because it was a simplistic way to view what I was saying. In the US, that is taboo outside the gay community. It moves you away from the male end of the gender spectrum. In other cultures, it doesn't matter. You will still be on the male end of THEIR spectrum.
Everybody has "feminine" and "masculine" traits. That individual expression puts everyone on a differing point in the gender spectrum. At a certain point, for example, you will have people that are biologically female expressing enough traits that they are "male" and identify as such. Some will take it a step further and undergo transitional treatment. Their gender is male. Their biological sex is female.

 

[zeppelin128]

Negative. There’s internal plumbing as well along with real ones and fake ones.

It’s baby steps. I’m trying to get you to understand the basics first. Your post means you have to start over at the beginning.

Don't back out now. You said penis=man and vagina=woman. I applaud your liberalism, Comrade.

 

[Orange_Crush]

I used that example because it was a simplistic way to view what I was saying. In the US, that is taboo outside the gay community. It moves you away from the male end of the gender spectrum. In other cultures, it doesn't matter. You will still be on the male end of THEIR spectrum.
Everybody has "feminine" and "masculine" traits. That individual expression puts everyone on a differing point in the gender spectrum. At a certain point, for example, you will have people that are biologically female expressing enough traits that they are "male" and identify as such. Some will take it a step further and undergo transitional treatment. Their gender is male. Their biological sex is female.

Give me an example of gender fluidity across cultures that affect the definition of sex. You are seeking to normalize gender dysphoria with references to cultural differences and acceptances, yet nothing you've offered as example normalizes gender dysphoria. You can't claim that people are normal within their culture as proof that gender dysphoria should be normalized, much less that it's decoupled from their physical sex.

 

[tumscalcium]

Having Monopoly money doesn’t make one a millionaire. You’re at Luther level stupidity now.

You’re trolling is poor.

 

[zeppelin128]

Give me an example of gender fluidity across cultures that affect the definition of sex. You are seeking to normalize gender dysphoria with references to cultural differences and acceptances, yet nothing you've offered as example normalizes gender dysphoria. You can't claim that people are normal within their culture as proof that gender dysphoria should be normalized, much less that it's decoupled from their physical sex.

I have never once claimed that gender constructs affect the definition of sex.

 

[Orange_Crush]

I have never once claimed that gender constructs affect the definition of sex.

May I ask what point you're making? And how your argument should normalize gender dysphoria?

 

[zeppelin128]

May I ask what point you're making? And how your argument should normalize gender dysphoria?

I'm starting to think I might die in this thread repeating myself. Sex is biological. Gender is a social and personal construct. None of us should care as it is none of our business.

 

[C-south]

I'm starting to think I might die in this thread repeating myself. Sex is biological. Gender is a social and personal construct. None of us should care as it is none of our business.

Gender and sex are the same thing. Gender dysphoria is a mental illness. Mental illness may have a spectrum but your genitals do not (barring physical abnormalities).

 

[luthervol]

The wrench slip?


You're proposing that a person can't believe in two genders, see body dysphoria as a mental illness and also have empathy for the person that suffers with it? You think I can't have empathy for my niece with anorexia?

Don't trip. There's a curb behind you.

I'm not suggesting that at all.
I was responding to the question from DC about where I was on the spectrum (with a little intended humor). Empathy is seen as a feminine trait by knuckle draggers.

My stance (and I'm not sure we are all using the same definitions) is that you can take any group of people starting around age 12 - and line them up from most masculine to most feminine. The most masculine female would be far more masculine than the most feminine male. I think this is due more to nature than nurture. I believe that if you did a chemical analysis of each person in the group that you would find that the masculine females had more chemical similarities with the normal male than would the normal females, and that the feminine males would have more chemical similarities to the normal female than would the normal male. The extremes on both ends would also show differences from the norm. I think the most masculine females would in many ways identify more with the normal male and the most feminine males would identify more with the normal females.

 

[Orange_Crush]

I'm not suggesting that at all.
I was responding to the question from DC about where I was on the spectrum (with a little intended humor). Empathy is seen as a feminine trait by knuckle draggers.

My stance (and I'm not sure we are all using the same definitions) is that you can take any group of people starting around age 12 - and line them up from most masculine to most feminine. The most masculine female would be far more masculine than the most feminine male. I think this is due more to nature than nurture. I believe that if you did a chemical analysis of each person in the group that you would find that the masculine females had more chemical similarities with the normal male than would the normal females, and that the feminine males would have more chemical similarities to the normal female than would the normal male. The extremes on both ends would also show differences from the norm. I think the most masculine females would in many ways identify more with the normal male and the most feminine males would identify more with the normal females.

I'm starting to think I might die in this thread repeating myself. Sex is biological. Gender is a social and personal construct. None of us should care as it is none of our business.

So if a person that wanted a sex change because they felt feminine went to a country with more feminine definitions of masculinity, they would then feel more comfortable in their bodies and a sex change would be unnecessary?

I'm trying to figure out how your gender definition affects body dysmorphia.

 

[Orange_Crush]

I'm not suggesting that at all.
I was responding to the question from DC about where I was on the spectrum (with a little intended humor). Empathy is seen as a feminine trait by knuckle draggers.

My stance (and I'm not sure we are all using the same definitions) is that you can take any group of people starting around age 12 - and line them up from most masculine to most feminine. The most masculine female would be far more masculine than the most feminine male. I think this is due more to nature than nurture. I believe that if you did a chemical analysis of each person in the group that you would find that the masculine females had more chemical similarities with the normal male than would the normal females, and that the feminine males would have more chemical similarities to the normal female than would the normal male. The extremes on both ends would also show differences from the norm. I think the most masculine females would in many ways identify more with the normal male and the most feminine males would identify more with the normal females.

So finding a physical, chemical reason for body dysmorphia makes it normal as opposed to a mental illness?

 

[luthervol]

So finding a physical, chemical reason for body dysmorphia makes it normal as opposed to a mental illness?

I don't think it is any more of a mental illness than that of a person who lacks empathy and is hyper aggressive due to chemical differences (imbalances) from the norm. We could define mental illness in a way that encompasses both.
How much of a deviation from the norm would move someone into the mentally ill category? Or should the label mentally ill be used for specific types of severe deviations?

 

[Orange_Crush]

I don't think it is any more of a mental illness than that of a person who lacks empathy and is hyper aggressive due to chemical differences (imbalances) from the norm. We could define mental illness in a way that encompasses both.
How much of a deviation from the norm would move someone into the mentally ill category? Or should the label mentally ill be used for specific types of severe deviations?

You live in the slippery slope retreat, which is actually a logical fallacy. If we applied your slippery slope logic to everything, we'd never arrive at any truth.

And we don't need your slippery slope for you to answer my question. Does an underlying chemical imbalance mean that the resulting mental illness isn't a mental illness? Does knowing the cause of an illness mean that it isn't an illness?

Simple question. Simple answer.

 

[DEFENDTHISHOUSE]

While I feel a business should be able to refuse service to anyone for any reason, this is too funny not to share.

 

[0nelilreb]

I don't think it is any more of a mental illness than that of a person who lacks empathy and is hyper aggressive due to chemical differences (imbalances) from the norm. We could define mental illness in a way that encompasses both.
How much of a deviation from the norm would move someone into the mentally ill category? Or should the label mentally ill be used for specific types of severe deviations?

I’ve noticed you use the word empathy a lot and having a lack of it is a case for knuckle draggers or now even bordering mental illness . Have you considered that the over use and even abuse of feelings over facts for the specific purpose of not offending anyone is leading to the lack of empathy towards others ? A crying wolf too much Scenairo ?

 

[luthervol]

I’ve noticed you use the word empathy a lot and having a lack of it is a case for knuckle draggers or now even bordering mental illness . Have you considered that the over use and even abuse of feelings over facts for the specific purpose of not offending anyone is leading to the lack of empathy towards others ? A crying wolf too much Scenairo ?

Certainly some truth in that but I would never equate empathy with the use and abuse of feelings over facts. A lack of empathy is the attempt to ignore the fact that feelings are factual and cannot be removed from the equation.

 

[0nelilreb]

Certainly some truth in that but I would never equate empathy with the use and abuse of feelings over facts. A lack of empathy is the attempt to ignore the fact that feelings are factual and cannot be removed from the equation.

I disagree , the lack of empathy is just not putting yourself in someone else’s shoes or trying to FEEL what they feel . You can still know they have feelings and still feel Sympathy without being forced into empathy . This is where I believe we started getting off track is when we demanded empathy for everyone .
Edit : and yes I know the adage Empathy without sympathy is dangerous , Sympathy without Empathy is blind .

 

[PointGuard]

Penis = man.

Vagina = woman.

This isn’t difficult.

And some anomaly of each?

What about brain?