Are gays getting more rights than the rest of us?

#76
#76
Pretty ignorant? Really? I guess history on my side for that is ignorant as well. My bad. Precedent is that it has been left to states. You know the whole "by the power invested in me by the great state of X" nonsense.

Um. Where are you going with that last statement? What's your point?

The point is now the domain of this has been plucked out from the states. The federal level which means the courts will have to decide the definition of marriage, who it can be between, the minimum age, etc. Not sure the courts were intended to write this sort of standard - I look forward to seeing what the new definition will be. Say 16 as the minimum age, no blood tests required, polygamy allowed, and who knows what else will be asked.

Always been a state issue because no way in hell founding fathers though two men would try to get married. Activists call it progress, I call it regress.
The point is activists are asking for a change in definition so it will be a Supreme Court issue because all states would have to recognize them as married.
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#77
#77
I've already made that point in this thread. Heterosexuals have already made a mockery of marriage to be claiming homos will cause it.
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God will judge those people who divorced, but when he sees a nation actively perverting an institution that he created and blessed, he'll judge that nation harshly.
 
#78
#78
It isn't a "cheap shot" at religion, but rather an objection to the idea that Christianity has always been a pure force for good in this country. People can believe whatever they want, but they shouldn't try to push those beliefs onto others.

Not sure why I am even bothering but here goes. The point in the reference to abolition was in comment to a previous poster saying a religious view has no place in a discussion - only the law on the books. MY point (please read slowly and reread if necessary) was that laws have and still do change based on religious viewpoints. People do not just accept the law on the books. Clearly as in the case with gay marriage, people do not accept law as necessarily being right. In the case of abolition, slavery was not only law but Constitution as well. With the logic used by this particular poster, anyone opposed to slavery on any grounds , much less moral and religious grounds, should have accepted what the law and especially the Constitution said and left it at that. I mean after all, how dare ANY Christian come and object to our sacred law and Constitution and wish to impose their morality on others, right?

Again read slowly if need be....there is a place for personal beliefs in law and in changing law. For some it is a religious viewpoint instilled in them. Others it may be some other moral standards influenced by who knows what. Point is a religious view has a place in our society. And we actually owe some of the greatest changes to the same religious view that some see as having NO place in the forum of government, law, politics, etc.
 
#79
#79
You've previously stated you don't understand the "terms" I use, and your way of discussing something is to pelt the other person with questions that lead far off the original discussion. So there really isn't much point in us trying to have a meaningful prolonged conversation.

Say what you want, but you mentioned that abolitionists were Christian with the intent to selectively choose the broader religion's role. I could just as easily say, "nice try but you failed" by pointing out non-Christian abolitionists throughout history.

It isn't a "cheap shot" at religion, but rather an objection to the idea that Christianity has always been a pure force for good in this country. People can believe whatever they want, but they shouldn't try to push those beliefs onto others.

Interesting point.

The first part of the bold is solid truth. Plain and simple.

The second is not possible, and will never happen. And that goes past religion.
 
#80
#80
Not sure why I am even bothering but here goes. The point in the reference to abolition was in comment to a previous poster saying a religious view has no place in a discussion - only the law on the books. MY point (please read slowly and reread if necessary) was that laws have and still do change based on religious viewpoints. People do not just accept the law on the books. Clearly as in the case with gay marriage, people do not accept law as necessarily being right. In the case of abolition, slavery was not only law but Constitution as well. With the logic used by this particular poster, anyone opposed to slavery on any grounds , much less moral and religious grounds, should have accepted what the law and especially the Constitution said and left it at that. I mean after all, how dare ANY Christian come and object to our sacred law and Constitution and wish to impose their morality on others, right?

Again read slowly if need be....there is a place for personal beliefs in law and in changing law. For some it is a religious viewpoint instilled in them. Others it may be some other moral standards influenced by who knows what. Point is a religious view has a place in our society. And we actually owe some of the greatest changes to the same religious view that some see as having NO place in the forum of government, law, politics, etc.

I can see where you're coming from - I suppose I was a little too black and white. You're right - people formulate opinions through their beliefs, morals, etc. I just think that quoting the Bible, koran, etc in respect to modern law is moving us in the wrong direction.
 
#81
#81
God will judge those people who divorced, but when he sees a nation actively perverting an institution that he created and blessed, he'll judge that nation harshly.

Yet Christians have no problem with that 'perversion' of marriage, just with gay marriage. Leave it to Buffet Christians to take what they like and ignore the rest.
 
#82
#82
Interesting point.

The first part of the bold is solid truth. Plain and simple.

The second is not possible, and will never happen. And that goes past religion.

Personal morality shouldn't be legislated. That's what i am trying to say.
 
#83
#83
God will judge those people who divorced, but when he sees a nation actively perverting an institution that he created and blessed, he'll judge that nation harshly.

Didn't the Ayatollah in Iran say something similar to that about how women dress?
 
#85
#85
Personal morality shouldn't be legislated. That's what i am trying to say.

I know what your saying.

To a christian, taking anything "God" related out is gonna caused a backlash from that side. If it doesn't, they don't believe it very much. That will never change.
 
#86
#86
Personal morality shouldn't be legislated. That's what i am trying to say.

Are you saying Christian views or personal morality? Because we're all governed by personal morality. You vote your "personal morality" into office. Personal morality does not always equal Christian theology. The founding fathers invoked their personal morality. Mores, ethics, codes of conduct are embodiments of "personal morality". I think you're more along the lines of Christian theology.
 
#87
#87
Are you saying Christian views or personal morality? Because we're all governed by personal morality. You vote your "personal morality" into office. Personal morality does not always equal Christian theology. The founding fathers invoked their personal morality. Mores, ethics, codes of conduct are embodiments of "personal morality". I think you're more along the lines of Christian theology.

Depends how you want to label things. When it comes to the point that you are telling people what they can do in the bed room and who with, that is a realm that should be left up to individuals.
 
#88
#88
Yet Christians have no problem with that 'perversion' of marriage, just with gay marriage. Leave it to Buffet Christians to take what they like and ignore the rest.


both are wrong and God will judge them. I agree that Christians have dropped the ball when it comes to divorce (among many things). there is no exuse for it in God's eyes. However, that doesn't mean that Christians should not fight to keep marriage from continuing to be perverted even more.
 
#92
#92
do you have any personal morality? or do you think it's fine to a$$ slam sheep?

You assume I have no morals, but you're incredibly wrong. I'm a total prude.

Interesting that the only options you present are being moral or having sex with sheep. Are you repressing something?
 
#93
#93
both are wrong and God will judge them. I agree that Christians have dropped the ball when it comes to divorce (among many things). there is no exuse for it in God's eyes. However, that doesn't mean that Christians should not fight to keep marriage from continuing to be perverted even more.

Right, because marriage has reached the acceptable level of perverseness. But if we go any farther its too perverted.
 
#94
#94
God doesn't approve of many heterosexual marriages. Do you know anyone who ever got divorced and remarried? That isn't in line with God.

Perhaps you should refrain from speaking anything Bible-related. The Bible is the very essence of Christianity, which you have prejudice views of. (Side-Note: It also completely contradicts your view of evolution.)

And your statement above is inaccurate. Look it up again. God does provide a basis for divorce. There is one and only one reason God will allow a divorce in His eyes.
 
#95
#95
I didn't mean for this to turn into a religious or moral debate. It's more about equal opportunity. There are many laws based on moral standards such as no alcohol sales on Sunday, abc stores closing at 7, etc etc. The fact is gays for the most part can't legally get married yet a man & woman have to be married to receive the same benefits. Some middle aged people may have had previous marriages that didn't work out & choose to live together but decide marriage isn't their thing. Should they be denied rights that gays are getting? Hell
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#96
#96
I didn't mean for this to turn into a religious or moral debate. It's more about equal opportunity. There are many laws based on moral standards such as no alcohol sales on Sunday, abc stores closing at 7, etc etc. The fact is gays for the most part can't legally get married yet a man & woman have to be married to receive the same benefits. Some middle aged people may have had previous marriages that didn't work out & choose to live together but decide marriage isn't their thing. Should they be denied rights that gays are getting? Hell no! Evidently there were no moral or religious beliefs being considered when the gays got extra rights so it should come down to an equal opportunity issue.
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#97
#97
Not too long ago I got a letter in the mail from my employer. I'm always getting something that pertains to benefits or policies or whatever. This was pertaining to health benefits & in 1 section it was talking about the coverage of gay persons partners. I'm like WTF! IMO this is a little over the top. So if I'm 35 yrs old & straight & with a woman I've been living with for 5 yrs & we chose to not get married for whatever reason she isn't eligible to be covered under my benefits package but if I'm a homo I can cover my gay partner. This is totally messed up. The line needs to be drawn somewhere.

you may be eligible under a common law situation, i know people who hve insurance like that.
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#98
#98
Better start protesting that constitutional right to buy that 40 before the big game on Sundays. You need that equal opportunity each and every day to make that purchase. Not to mention those states banning alcohol sales on election day. I need equal opportunity to buy a vote for a six pack.
 
#99
#99
Perhaps you should refrain from speaking anything Bible-related. The Bible is the very essence of Christianity, which you have prejudice views of. (Side-Note: It also completely contradicts your view of evolution.)

And your statement above is inaccurate. Look it up again. God does provide a basis for divorce. There is one and only one reason God will allow a divorce in His eyes.
I will never invoke the bible if you don't try to comment on science.

I am aware of the one reason, and we both know that is not the cause of a majority of divorces.
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I will never invoke the bible if you don't try to comment on science.

I am aware of the one reason, and we both know that is not the cause of a majority of divorces.
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Trouble with that "agreement" is that the Bible comments on science (and accurately) whereas the science you commonly refer to tends to try and contradict the Bible.

And there can not be any accurate way of determining the actual cause of all divorces. "Irreconcilable Differences" could encompass a myriad of things, including adultery.
 

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