Are the hurricanes dead ?

#27
#27
It will be a long and drawn out battle, and I don't think they will get the death penalty in the same way that SMU did, but enough will happen to them that it will have the same effect.

The fact is that the NCAA knows that the entire country is now watching. This has received way more exposure than either USC, Auburn, or OSU. It is on the front page of USA Today right now. There are so many major violations with irrefutable evidence including phone logs, pictures, receipts and eye witnesses who have already confirmed most of what is being said.

The depth and breadth of this pretty much ensures that if they are allowed to field teams at all, then it will be completely with walk-ons for at least a couple of years.

There is no way that Miami skates with a reduction of a few scholarships and some vacated wins. They are doomed and there is no amount of TV revenue or market influences that will get them out of it.
 
#28
#28
VFL10 said:
I just don't see the NCAA handing down the death penalty anymore. If their was anytime to do it it would be in this case. Some serious stuff being accused. If it all comes out to be true and they don't get the death penalty then no one ever will. They deserve it though IMO.
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apparently they were extremely close to giving it to the
uk basketball team in 1988 or 89
 
#29
#29
I would not be surprised at all to see Miami end up with a bowl ban and even a TV ban though
 
#30
#30
This dude paying for an abortion is the least of their worries right now. A good atty could argue that wasnt a player benefit but money given to a female that has nothing to do with the program. He gave multiple players up to $40,000, gifts, even more money for playing good in games, its insane.
 
#33
#33
TrueOrange said:
I would not be surprised at all to see Miami end up with a bowl ban and even a TV ban though
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the reason that quit doing the TV ban is that it hurts the other schools in the conference. With the big TV deals out there, and the way recruiting is these days, the teams need to be on TV at every possible chance.
 
#34
#34
Originally Posted by VFL10
I just don't see the NCAA handing down the death penalty anymore. If their was anytime to do it it would be in this case. Some serious stuff being accused. If it all comes out to be true and they don't get the death penalty then no one ever will. They deserve it though IMO.
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I've heard, multiple times from "experts" that the NCAA said they would never hand down the death penalty again. If all this stuff with Miami is true, how could they not??
 
#35
#35
volfan51128 said:
Like was mentioned before, this is Miami...They wont get the death penalty even if they entire team murdered someone. I'll bet anyone 100 bucks they dont. Its all about the $$$.
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Noone's likely going to get the death penalty, look at how far out SMU went in its actions for it to be warranted:

SMU football had already been placed on three years' probation in 1985 for recruiting violations. At the time, it had been on probation seven times (including five times since 1974), more than any other school in Division I-A.[4]

However, in 1986, SMU faced allegations by whistleblowing player Sean Stopperich that players were still being paid. An investigation found that 21 players received approximately $61,000 in cash payments, with the assistance of athletic department staff members, from a slush fund provided by a booster. Payments ranged from $50 to $725 per month, and started only a month after SMU went on its original probation (though it later emerged that a slush fund had been maintained in one form or another since the mid-1970s). Also, SMU officials lied to NCAA officials about when the payments stopped.

While the school had assured the NCAA that players were no longer being paid, the school's board of governors, led by chairman Bill Clements, decided that the school had to honor previous commitments made to the players. However, under a secret plan adopted by the board, the school would phase out the slush once all players that were still being paid had graduated.[5]
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....probably the biggest there being the fact that they had lied to the NCAA about changing any of this and then decided to secretly keep playing the players




The infractions committee cited the need to "eliminate a program that was built on a legacy of wrongdoing, deceit and rule violations" as a factor in what is still the harshest penalty ever meted out to any major collegiate program. It also cited SMU's past history of violations and the "great competitive advantage" the Mustangs had gained as a result of cheating. However, it praised SMU for cooperating fully with the investigation, as well as its stated intent to run a clean program. Had SMU not fully cooperated, it would have had its football program shut down until 1989, and would have lost its right to vote at NCAA conventions until 1990
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#36
#36
On Mike and Mike, Mark Emmert said even though this is new to the public, the NCAA has been reviewing this for over 5 months. Could find out whats gonna happen sooner than later.
 
#37
#37
Well...even if not this year but next there will be 25 recruits looking for a better place to land....just need to look thru the bag and get the ones that fits Dooleys mold...because it seems like South Flordia Kids can be Poison...
 
#38
#38
VolMaster14 said:
I've heard, multiple times from "experts" that the NCAA said they would never hand down the death penalty again. If all this stuff with Miami is true, how could they not??
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For reference: from wiki

SMU football had already been placed on three years' probation in 1985 for recruiting violations. At the time, it had been on probation seven times (including five times since 1974), more than any other school in Division I-A.[4]

However, in 1986, SMU faced allegations by whistleblowing player Sean Stopperich that players were still being paid. An investigation found that 21 players received approximately $61,000 in cash payments, with the assistance of athletic department staff members, from a slush fund provided by a booster. Payments ranged from $50 to $725 per month, and started only a month after SMU went on its original probation (though it later emerged that a slush fund had been maintained in one form or another since the mid-1970s). Also, SMU officials lied to NCAA officials about when the payments stopped.

While the school had assured the NCAA that players were no longer being paid, the school's board of governors, led by chairman Bill Clements, decided that the school had to honor previous commitments made to the players. However, under a secret plan adopted by the board, the school would phase out the slush once all players that were still being paid had graduated.[5]

As a result:

* The 1987 season was canceled; only conditioning drills (without pads) would be permitted until the spring of 1988.
* All home games in 1988 were canceled. SMU was allowed to play their seven regularly scheduled away games so that other institutions would not be financially affected. The university would ultimately choose not to do so (see below).
* The team's existing probation was extended to 1990. Its existing ban from bowl games and live television was extended to 1989.
* SMU lost 55 new scholarship positions over 4 years.
* The team was allowed to hire only five full-time assistant coaches, instead of the typical nine.
* No off-campus recruiting would be permitted until August 1988, and no paid visits could be made to campus by would-be recruits until the start of the 1988–89 school year.
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#39
#39
TrueOrange said:
I would not be surprised at all to see Miami end up with a bowl ban and even a TV ban though
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The NCAA has stated in the past that they don't plan on implementing the death penalty or TV bans again. That effectively harms every other school in the ACC.

I expect Miami's penalties to be harsh, but affect Miami only.
 
#41
#41
BUT keep in mind...UF and UBama...recruits may also look around...since coaches are directly invoved....think kids parents are going to questions this issue with there kids....YES...GOT TO SAY IT NICE TO DOOLEY
 
#42
#42
As a result, SMU's football program was under nearly constant scrutiny from the NCAA from 1974 onward. SMU was slapped with probation five times between 1974 and 1985. Overall, SMU had been sanctioned seven times in its history, more than any Division I-A program. In 1985, it had been placed on three years' probation for recruiting violations involving an assistant coach and several boosters. As part of the penalty, the Mustangs were banned from bowl games in 1985 and 1986, and banned from live television in 1986.

In June 1986, John Sparks, a producer at the Dallas-Fort Worth Metroplex's ABC affiliate, WFAA-TV, received a tip about even more wrongdoing at SMU. Sparks' digging eventually led him to David Stanley, who had played linebacker for SMU during the 1983 and 1984 seasons and who had been kicked off the team and lost his scholarship due to a substance abuse problem. Stanley claimed that SMU athletic officials paid him $25,000 to sign with SMU in 1983, and continued to pay him monthly while he played for the Mustangs. More seriously, the payments had continued after SMU had been slapped with its latest probation- which had come about largely due to SMU making payments to another player, lineman Sean Stopperich, and his family in order to get Stopperich to renege on an oral commitment to the University of Pittsburgh, his hometown school, and come to SMU to play.[3] (Stopperich and Stanley were both part of SMU's 1983 recruiting class, which many had regarded as one of the best in the entire nation.)

Stanley's allegations were critical, as the NCAA had adopted new rules to deal with repeat offenders. Most notably, if a school had been found guilty of two major violations within five years, it could be barred from competing in the sport involved in the second violation for up to two years.[4] While the NCAA had always had the power to shut down a program—a power widely known as "the death penalty"—it now had specific instances where it either had to do so or explain why it didn't.

WFAA was taking a calculated risk in investigating SMU, as the school's alumni have long dominated Dallas' business and social scene. For example, the Dallas Times Herald suffered serious losses in advertising revenue when it broke a 1983 story about serious recruiting violations. Although the paper was vindicated when the story led to SMU being placed on probation, the lost revenue never returned, and was a factor in its closure in 1991. Nonetheless, Sparks and the station's sports director, Dale Hansen, pressed on.[4]
On October 27, Hansen confronted athletic director Bob Hitch, head coach Bobby Collins and recruiting coordinator Henry Lee Parker with Stanley's allegations. He then dropped a bombshell—he'd obtained several letters containing payments to Stanley's family that had been postmarked in October 1985. A handwriting expert had confirmed that the envelopes had been initialed by Parker. Even in the face of this evidence, Hitch, Collins and Parker denied everything.[4] For example, when Parker was shown an envelope that had allegedly contained a $350 payment, he initially said it was his, but immediately backtracked and said, "No, this is printed ... I don't write that way."[5]

On November 12, Hansen aired a 40-minute special report which was the first extensive report of Stanley's allegations.[4] The report also revealed that Stanley had also talked to the NCAA, and an NCAA investigation was well underway.

Two days later, the Dallas Morning News (coincidentally, a corporate cousin to WFAA; both were owned by the A.H. Belo Corporation) revealed that starting tight end Albert Reese was living rent-free in a Dallas apartment. Even more alarmingly, the rent was being paid by George Owen, one of the boosters who had been banned from the athletic program for his role in the events leading up to the 1985 probation. Reese was suspended for the last two games of the season pending an investigation.[6]
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On November 19, 1986, 200 professors submitted a petition calling for the end of "quasi-professional athletics" at SMU—including a ban on athletic scholarships. In addition, SMU Board of Governors chairman Bill Clements, who was due to leave his post in two months to take office as Governor of Texas, announced that the school would tighten its admissions standards for all athletes. He also said that school officials would drop football entirely if necessary to restore the school's integrity.[7]

Eventually, the NCAA investigation revealed that from 1985 to 1986, 13 players had been paid a total of $61,000 from a slush fund provided by a booster. Payments ranged from $50 to $725 a month, and had started only a month after SMU had been slapped with its latest probation.

The Times Herald later identified the booster as Dallas real-estate developer Sherwood Blount, Jr., who played for the Mustangs from 1969 to 1971 (though according to Parker, other boosters were almost certainly involved). The players had received a total of $47,000 during the 1985-86 school year. Eight of those players were paid an additional $14,000 from September to December 1986. The slush fund was due to be discontinued when the 13 players had all left the school. These payments were made with the full knowledge and approval of athletic department staff. According to the Morning News, Hitch knew about the existence of a slush fund as early as 1981, and was involved in the decision to continue the payments even after SMU was slapped with probation in 1985. The Morning News also said Collins knew certain players were being paid, but didn't know who they were.[8]

At least two then-current NFL players were identified as receiving payments--New England Patriots running back Reggie Dupard and Tampa Bay Buccaneers cornerback Rod Jones.[8] A third player, wide receiver Ron Morris, was drafted by the Chicago Bears.[9] By the end of the 1986 season, according to the Times Herald, only three of the 13 players still had eligibility remaining.[10]

Not long afterward, school president L. Donald Shields resigned. Hitch and Collins followed suit a few days later.
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On March 3, 1987, Clements admitted that he and the other members of the SMU board of governors had approved a secret plan to continue the slush fund payments to players. Clements said that the board agreed to "phase out" the slush fund at the end of the 1986 season, but that it felt duty-bound to honor prior commitments to the players. He later said he hadn't told the truth about the payments sooner because "there wasn't a Bible in the room."[22]

A week later, Clements apologized for his role in continuing the payments. He said he'd learned about the slush fund in 1984, and an investigation by the board of governors revealed that players had been paid to play since the mid-1970s. Clements said that rather than shut the payments down immediately, the board "reluctantly and uncomfortably" decided to continue paying players who had already been guaranteed payments. However, he said, in hindsight the board "should have stopped (the payments) immediately" rather than merely phase them out.[23]

A few months after Clements' admission, the College of Bishops of the United Methodist Church released a report detailing an investigation of its own into the scandal. It revealed that Clements had met with Hitch in 1985, and the two agreed that the payments had to continue because the football program had "a payroll to meet." Also, the report revealed that Hitch, Collins and Parker were each paid $850,000 in return for their silence on the matter[22] This was a sharp contrast to Clements' public statements immediately after the scandal broke (see above).
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.
 
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#44
#44
The NCAA has already started to clear players that were mentioned in the Yahoo Sports report who are at other schools: Robert Marve, Matt Patchan, Debose, etc. Seems like some of this stuff may be over blown, although alot of the stuff with older UM players, especially from 2002-2007 seems to be supported. The NCAA will be the governing body that decides what is actionable and whats not.
 
#46
#46
JokermanVol said:
no.
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this is all i've got to go on, so i'm not going to go any further with it

Since 1987, the NCAA has only seriously considered imposing a death penalty once on a Division I school. The first was when Kentucky basketball was found guilty of rampant recruiting and eligibility violations. In its final report, the NCAA said that Kentucky's violations were egregious enough to warrant a death penalty. However, the NCAA said the only reason it did not impose a death penalty was because school president David Roselle took swift action to bring the basketball program under control once the violations came to light.
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29 page report

https://web1.ncaa.org/LSDBi/exec/mi...&publicTerms=THIS PHRASE WILL NOT BE REPEATED
 
#47
#47
GatorBill said:
For reference: from wiki
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there's more too, any and all players at the school would be allowed to transfer without penalty

The infractions committee cited the need to "eliminate a program that was built on a legacy of wrongdoing, deceit and rule violations" as a factor in what is still the harshest penalty ever meted out to any major collegiate program. It also cited SMU's past history of violations and the "great competitive advantage" the Mustangs had gained as a result of cheating. However, it praised SMU for cooperating fully with the investigation, as well as its stated intent to run a clean program. Had SMU not fully cooperated, it would have had its football program shut down until 1989, and would have lost its right to vote at NCAA conventions until 1990.[5]

All recruits and players were allowed to transfer without losing eligibility, and most did. On April 11, 1987, SMU announced its football team would stay shuttered for 1988 as well, citing the near-certainty that it wouldn't have enough experienced players left to field a competitive team.[6] Their concerns proved valid, as new coach Forrest Gregg was left with a severely undersized and underweight roster composed mostly of freshmen.

Before the "death penalty" was instituted, SMU was a storied program in college football, with a Heisman Trophy winner (Doak Walker in 1949), one national championship (from the Dickinson System in 1935) and 10 Southwest Conference titles. The Mustangs compiled 52–19–1 record from 1980 until 1986, including an undefeated season in 1982 led by the Pony Express backfield of future Pro Football Hall of Fame member Eric Dickerson, who set the NFL single-season rushing record by gaining 2,105 yards in 1984 for the Los Angeles Rams, and Craig James, who played with the New England Patriots in Super Bowl XX.

Afterwards, players were reluctant to attend a school with a history of such major recruiting violations. In addition, the loss of 55 scholarships meant that it would be 1992 before the Mustangs were able to field a team with a full complement of scholarship players; it would be another year before it fielded a team consisting entirely of players unaffected by the scandal.

Since 1989 SMU has defeated only 2 ranked teams, has had only 2 winning seasons, and is 64–158–3.[7] The Mustangs would not return to a bowl game until 2009; they won the 2009 Hawaiʻi Bowl on December 24, 2009 over Nevada by a score of 45–10. The death penalty decimated the Southwest Conference's reputation and finances, contributing to the collapse of the entire conference in 1996.
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#48
#48
volfan51128 said:
Like was mentioned before, this is Miami...They wont get the death penalty even if they entire team murdered someone. I'll bet anyone 100 bucks they dont. Its all about the $$$.
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And the money is what they need to take from them. Going after players and coaches long gone would be difficult. Taking mega bucks from the school would send a clear message to all institutes. Fines do work, just ask anyone who has paid one.
 
#49
#49
ItsAllVols said:
4 Years probation...enough time to rit that program of the trash...no death penalty for UM
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It will be harsher than that! Especially if it turns out that there is truth in coaches knowing about it the whole time. They will definitely lose scholarships and have a few years worth of bowl bans.
 
#50
#50
I think they deserve the death penalty but I don't think they get it. Too much collateral damage and $$ involved. How would the ACC hold their conf championship? Would they kick UM out and take another team or wait for UM to have a CG. What about the TV contract? UM is arguably the biggest TV draw. That would have to be redone. Not to mention the financial implications on the community. For all the people that say we will never see the death penalty again, we are about to find out because that bunch deserves it if anyone does.
 
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