Are we approaching the defining moment in CJH's tenure at UT?

#151
#151
HiltonHeadVol said:
Now I know that there will be push-back on this topic. But can we just ask the question that is sitting out there. I didn't really mean to sound too dramatic with this thread......but for some time I've said that CJH will have to re-invent/re-shape his offense as smart defensive coaches adapt to his unique style. Last year made I was mildly concerned with offensive drop-off, but this year it seems clear that Coach is struggling to adjust his system to continue and remain productive. 2024 in CJH's professional life has been unique and challenging obviously.
But is he evolving as he must, or is he a bit lost? THIS is the defining question regarding not only his tenure at UT but his long term coaching legacy.
I suspect the loss of Golesh was a much bigger set-back than most realize. There are holes on this team that are chronic problems at UT. Offensive line recruiting and development have been suspect for many years (at least in my view). Talent in the defensive backfield and at LB has either been thin or not developed. Penalties are problematic and we cannot currently "outscore our mistakes". Play calling at least superficially appears predictable and therefore it must accept some responsibility for our repetitive two-quarter scoring lapses.

So I eagerly await input from those on this forum who understand football far better than I. Some might suggest this team has produced beyond expectations. I am proud of this team at 8-2 but there are some troubling signs. Our identity, Coach's adaptability, and player development have been difficult this year and yet I think in many ways some would call 2024 one of Huep's best, despite the things listed above. I've seen suggestions that all the Huepel-esque style offenses are not producing as before. If so, why? Is our coach evolving as he must? Let me say that I really like Coach Huep and his character. I think he is a good man and I'm pulling for him big-time. But I am concerned. OK, I'll hang up and listen.
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Did I miss something? Are we or are we not ranked 10th/11th with a shot at the CFP?
Troubling signs? 4 years ago we had a losing record and on our 4th failed coach.

Our fan base needs to get a grip.
 
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#152
#152
RanMac said:
I think we all would have been happy at 10-2 at the beginning of the year. I thought losing to either GA or Bama or both. Beating Bama, I allowed myself to think 11-1 and hosting a home game in the playoff's. The Arkansas game was our trap game. They have been for years. We lost it and it makes the path to the playoff a bit tougher but still doable with help. We have to win out, impressively and let the chips fall where they may.
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Agreed. Most pre-season predictions had us at 10-2 at this point. The only difference being that everyone thought that we would drop the game at Oklahoma, split Georgia/Alabama, but certainly beat Arkansas. Given that we took care of business at Oklahoma, the Arkansas game is especially painful as it could be what sends us to a feel good bowl rather than a playoff game.
 
#154
#154
HiltonHeadVol said:
Now I know that there will be push-back on this topic. But can we just ask the question that is sitting out there. I didn't really mean to sound too dramatic with this thread......but for some time I've said that CJH will have to re-invent/re-shape his offense as smart defensive coaches adapt to his unique style. Last year made I was mildly concerned with offensive drop-off, but this year it seems clear that Coach is struggling to adjust his system to continue and remain productive. 2024 in CJH's professional life has been unique and challenging obviously.
But is he evolving as he must, or is he a bit lost? THIS is the defining question regarding not only his tenure at UT but his long term coaching legacy.
I suspect the loss of Golesh was a much bigger set-back than most realize. There are holes on this team that are chronic problems at UT. Offensive line recruiting and development have been suspect for many years (at least in my view). Talent in the defensive backfield and at LB has either been thin or not developed. Penalties are problematic and we cannot currently "outscore our mistakes". Play calling at least superficially appears predictable and therefore it must accept some responsibility for our repetitive two-quarter scoring lapses.

So I eagerly await input from those on this forum who understand football far better than I. Some might suggest this team has produced beyond expectations. I am proud of this team at 8-2 but there are some troubling signs. Our identity, Coach's adaptability, and player development have been difficult this year and yet I think in many ways some would call 2024 one of Huep's best, despite the things listed above. I've seen suggestions that all the Huepel-esque style offenses are not producing as before. If so, why? Is our coach evolving as he must? Let me say that I really like Coach Huep and his character. I think he is a good man and I'm pulling for him big-time. But I am concerned. OK, I'll hang up and listen.
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I try to look at where we've been and where we are. We're looking at 10-2. The most successful 3 year stretch of football in a long time around here. Things could be a lot worse.

However, I think next year will be a defining year in a lot of ways. It's the end of the COVID group. They'll have to replace guys that have played a ton of football for us. Recruit development appears to be an issue with this staff on the offensive side of the ball. Their recruited players are routintely being replaced by the transfers. That may be the new age of college football, but it makes for a more risky venture if you don't have your own guys being developed to fill gaps. I do agree that at least some of the book is out on the offense. Most DC's seem to come in with similar gameplans to limit big plays.

I think next year will give us a good picture.
 
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#157
#157
jeff1vol said:
After four years... CJH is what he is. It's very UNcommon for a head coach to suddenly become a better coach after his first 4 years. He's a good coach. Not a great coach. In this league, you need a great coach to win big. It's just that simple.
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Some of us know this and that is why we want him to get a new OC with SEC experience . A good OC and elite QB was enough to help Ed Orgeron win a championship at LSU.

I don't hate Heupel, but seeing him looking desperately for answers near the end of the GA game, tells me he needs some help.
 
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#158
#158
loservol said:
Some of us know this and that is why we want him to get a new OC with SEC experience . A good OC and elite QB was enough to help Ed Orgeron win a championship at LSU.

I don't hate Heupel, but seeing him looking desperately for answers near the end of the GA game, tells me he needs some help.
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If you think Heupel, who got to this point in his career with his offense, is going to hire an OC and let them shape the offense instead of him, why?

Ed O was a decent SEC level defensive coach so hiring an OC to handle the offense was a reasonable move for him.

If Heupel can't handle making an SEC offense work, what should we expect him to be able to handle?

It's like having Kiffin as your coach but saying, "since the offense is not cutting it, let's get someone else to design and call the plays for Lane...." What the heck is Kiffin known for? What the heck is Heupel known for?
 
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#159
#159
Golfprovol said:
Jesus dude! Golesh never had a redshirt freshman QB. The offense is working the same, the players are not the same. Nico simply doesn't see the field like Hendon did.

Goleah also had Tillman and Hyatt to throw the ball to, we don't have anyone with that kind of skill.

After the last 20 years, you have the balls to sit behind a keyboard and bitch that we are "only" gonna win 10 games this year.......SMH
HiltonHeadVol said:
Now I know that there will be push-back on this topic. But can we just ask the question that is sitting out there. I didn't really mean to sound too dramatic with this thread......but for some time I've said that CJH will have to re-invent/re-shape his offense as smart defensive coaches adapt to his unique style. Last year made I was mildly concerned with offensive drop-off, but this year it seems clear that Coach is struggling to adjust his system to continue and remain productive. 2024 in CJH's professional life has been unique and challenging obviously.
But is he evolving as he must, or is he a bit lost? THIS is the defining question regarding not only his tenure at UT but his long term coaching legacy.
I suspect the loss of Golesh was a much bigger set-back than most realize. There are holes on this team that are chronic problems at UT. Offensive line recruiting and development have been suspect for many years (at least in my view). Talent in the defensive backfield and at LB has either been thin or not developed. Penalties are problematic and we cannot currently "outscore our mistakes". Play calling at least superficially appears predictable and therefore it must accept some responsibility for our repetitive two-quarter scoring lapses.

So I eagerly await input from those on this forum who understand football far better than I. Some might suggest this team has produced beyond expectations. I am proud of this team at 8-2 but there are some troubling signs. Our identity, Coach's adaptability, and player development have been difficult this year and yet I think in many ways some would call 2024 one of Huep's best, despite the things listed above. I've seen suggestions that all the Huepel-esque style offenses are not producing as before. If so, why? Is our coach evolving as he must? Let me say that I really like Coach Huep and his character. I think he is a good man and I'm pulling for him big-time. But I am concerned. OK, I'll hang up and listen.
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Let’s just hope he doesn’t stick with Nico Guarantano like he did with Milton….
 
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#162
#162
HiltonHeadVol said:
Now I know that there will be push-back on this topic. But can we just ask the question that is sitting out there. I didn't really mean to sound too dramatic with this thread......but for some time I've said that CJH will have to re-invent/re-shape his offense as smart defensive coaches adapt to his unique style. Last year made I was mildly concerned with offensive drop-off, but this year it seems clear that Coach is struggling to adjust his system to continue and remain productive. 2024 in CJH's professional life has been unique and challenging obviously.
But is he evolving as he must, or is he a bit lost? THIS is the defining question regarding not only his tenure at UT but his long term coaching legacy.
I suspect the loss of Golesh was a much bigger set-back than most realize. There are holes on this team that are chronic problems at UT. Offensive line recruiting and development have been suspect for many years (at least in my view). Talent in the defensive backfield and at LB has either been thin or not developed. Penalties are problematic and we cannot currently "outscore our mistakes". Play calling at least superficially appears predictable and therefore it must accept some responsibility for our repetitive two-quarter scoring lapses.

So I eagerly await input from those on this forum who understand football far better than I. Some might suggest this team has produced beyond expectations. I am proud of this team at 8-2 but there are some troubling signs. Our identity, Coach's adaptability, and player development have been difficult this year and yet I think in many ways some would call 2024 one of Huep's best, despite the things listed above. I've seen suggestions that all the Huepel-esque style offenses are not producing as before. If so, why? Is our coach evolving as he must? Let me say that I really like Coach Huep and his character. I think he is a good man and I'm pulling for him big-time. But I am concerned. OK, I'll hang up and listen.
Click to expand...
Don't give up your day job. A sports analyst is not in your future.
 
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#163
#163
Smoke603 said:
He’s 9-2 because of the defense not because of anything he has done or one of the back ups couldnt do.
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Yep.. This is true. Hope he takes a giant leap next year or he's clearly not the guy and i hope we have someone ready to go. Been very indecisive. Hasn't ran when he should, and looked very timid once we got into SEC play.
 
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#164
#164
bigorangepoppa said:
It seems like Nico is trying to hit the deep passes and doesn't throw underneath much at all. Quick slants over the middle, even if they only gain 5-6 yards, keeps the ball moving toward the goal line. The deep ball is a thing of beauty when it is caught, but if it isn't then you have 2 more downs to get a first down.

Another thing I've noticed, what happened to 3 receivers out to the side boundary? The receiver who caught the pass had 2 blockers in front of him, so there were a lot of yardage gained with that set. Most of the time now, their is only one receiver out wide, and when he catches the ball, the corner is usually right on top of him. Little to no gain, even a loss of yards sometimes.
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I assume we’re running more 2 TE sets so they can help the O-line with blocking. Don’t forget how trash our O-line was earlier in the year. It’s a big reason we lost to Arkansas and struggled with a bad UF team.
 
#165
#165
Smoke603 said:
He’s 9-2 because of the defense not because of anything he has done or one of the back ups couldnt do.
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You don't watch much football do you? With Gas Pipe at the helm, we dont beat Bama, we probably dont beat Oklahoma or Florida. His #'s were heisman like but he managed the game and didn't turn the ball over.

Nico has thrown 253 passes with 4 picks, Gas Pipe has thrown 25 passes with 2 picks......you think we would be 9-2 with him at the helm? Please put the bong down!
 
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#167
#167
Cartervol said:
Yep.. This is true. Hope he takes giant leap next year or he's clearly not the guy and i hope we have someone ready to go. Been very indecisive. Hasn't ran when he should, and looked very timid once we got into SEC play.
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His running seems really off too. Like he doesn’t have a good burst of speed, a lot of power, or top level elusiveness. You would expect such a highly rated duel threat QB to have at least one of these abilities after a red shirt year in the system. Arch Manning is a better runner than Nico.
 
#168
#168
08Vol said:
His running seems really off too. Like he doesn’t have a good burst of speed, a lot of power, or top level elusiveness. You would expect such a highly rated duel threat QB to have at least one of these abilities after a red shirt year in the system. Arch Manning is a better runner than Nico.
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Man he looked great against Iowa. Guess the Iowa's of the world are a perfect example of why automatic bids to the CFP suck. Heupel may have been in his ear to not run because gas pipe wouldn't have been a better option. He just hasn't ran the ball with any conviction this year. Looks like a last resort really.
 
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#169
#169
Josh Heupel took over an overturned shithouse (dumpster fire isn’t accurate enough). He’s had to endure “death penalty” rumors by opponents thru his first 2 full recruiting classes.

My biggest disappointment this season has been the lack of improvement on offense throughout the season annywhere except TEs & QB. OL & WRs continue to make critical mistakes. RB (Sampson) has been solid. OL is a talent issue but WRs should be more consistent.

I’m pro Heupel but the offensive assistants need to demand more accountability from the players. Dropped passes, blocking busts, etc needs to be gone by now.
 
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#172
#172
Clad in Big Orange said:
With our struggles on offense especially away from Neyland, I wouldn’t count the Vandy game as a win yet. A loss would significantly change this conversation.
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If the Vols don't dominate this game from the start, I can see this game going down to the wire with all of us biting our nails.

This is the game Nico has a chance to step up and quiten some of us doubters.
 
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#173
#173
Smoke603 said:
He’s 9-2 because of the defense not because of anything he has done or one of the back ups couldnt do.
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Are you saying we would be 9-2 this year with Gaston Moore at QB? The same Gaston Moore who has been in the CJH system for years, is a senior and still can't see the field? That Gaston Moore?
 
#175
#175
Larkin said:
Did I miss something? Are we or are we not ranked 10th/11th with a shot at the CFP?
Troubling signs? 4 years ago we had a losing record and on our 4th failed coach.

Our fan base needs to get a grip.
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THIS is exactly why I hesitated to even post the original question. I did so to simply have a discussion. Amazing to me that just talking out some issues brings on so much "preaching" that we as a reasonably educated fan base cannot discuss some obvious challenges this program is facing. Whether CJH moves up to elite level coach depends very much on his ability to overcome some of his own mindset. Such as, would he ever have the stones to fire a long term coach who is on friend level? Would he ever import analysts/coaches to challenge his thinking or challenge his system structure? Look at Saban for example. To me he did the unthinkable.....he brings in people he really didn't personally like just to challenge his thinking and to re-invent the Alabama offense. My respect for him grew exponentially when I saw him do that. And I knew he would improve the Bama program doing it that way. Im just saying it is worth a conversation about whether Heupel can overcome any of his "bias" to challenge his thinking in the goal of improving the program to truly elite status. It takes a pretty healthy level of self esteem as a coach to bring in talented folks that force you to examine the status quo. I suspect that was Golesh's role. He forced CJH to view things in a different way, and therefore perhaps kept defensive opponents off balance more. It is worth a conversation at least.
 
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