Are you more concerned with the DL or the OL?

#26
#26
fade route said:
DL by a mile. When you can't stop the run or get to the QB, then you have a hard time getting off the field, which further compounds the problem of not having quality depth. Which is also a glaring problem we have. The Oline will be fine...not worried about them.
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Agree on this one, especially the dt position.. But we do have some good young talent coming in.
 
#28
#28
madbamahater said:
Unfortunately it appears UT is going to have to score tons of points similar to Bray's last year. That was the worst defense in Vols history and arguably college football history. So, I don't expect it to be that sorry. How can it be possible? Problem is, we don't have a Bray that can put up 40-50 something points a game.....here's to hoping that Maggitt returning is monumental and the addition to the youngsters coming for fall camp. The new freshmen will have to play like upperclassmen.
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Where I am really impressed with the staff is the no nonsense mentality in the weight room. We have pushed around on lines not only from lack of quality but more glaring was lack of physicality and two pure lack of strength. More strength can mask a lot of getting pushed around. Our strength levels alone say u have no chance of beating teams like ls u and alabama. Just from a pure physical standpoint we have been dominated. Not one person squatting 600 lb when butch arrived is pathetic. Thx dooley.
 
#29
#29
fade route said:
Which is why I think its foolish to think we have much of a chance at UGA next year.
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We will destroy UGA this year ... bet your 401k on it. With a senior Aaron Murray they squeaked by us, they won't put a better than last year's team on the field against us, we'll be exponentially improved.
 
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#30
#30
Reading what Butch has been talking about this spring, I don't hear a lot of hand wringing about his starting personnel on either side of the ball. What I do hear trying to sift through all the coach speak is, he does have some hand wringing going on over our depth which will be plugged with freshman which can be an adventure. With a few breaks, we can be a decent SEC East team. We'll finish ahead of UGA fo sho, they couldn't stop anybody including us last year and depended on Murray outscoring who they played against. Their D will not get turned around this year, they actually have a shot a being a LOT worse.
 
#31
#31
Remy said:
Reading what Butch has been talking about this spring, I don't hear a lot of hand wringing about his starting personnel on either side of the ball. What I do hear trying to sift through all the coach speak is, he does have some hand wringing going on over our depth which will be plugged with freshman which can be an adventure. With a few breaks, we can be a decent SEC East team. We'll finish ahead of UGA fo sho, they couldn't stop anybody including us last year and depended on Murray outscoring who they played against. Their D will not get turned around this year, they actually have a shot a being a LOT worse.
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How will defense be worse. They may struggle first 4 games but I would expect no worse than what they had last year
 
#32
#32
I think our OL/DL will be as productive as last years, but will miss Miller. I'm more worried about out tackling skills. It has gotten old seeing poor tackling skills and bad angle's to tackles. We have become the SEC team that can't tackle and loves to chase after folks. If we are going to play chase...I hope our speed picks up enough.
 
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#34
#34
Short and sweet answer, the DL. If you have an offense with much of a pulse at all, you can win a lot of games with just that and a good D.
 
#35
#35
The depth on our D line is my biggest concern. If we put a good wirey running QB in the back field we can hopefully make up for the issues on the OL. Our D last year was not much better than the year before, so hoping these fall camp arrivals r going to be ready is a very scary thought.

Our schedule next year is full of QBs with wheels, and I don't see how our current depth is going to be able to handle it. I know everyone is so giddy about the strength the players have gained, but we need their cardio to be just as good if not better.
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#36
#36
Oskie Volum said:
The depth on our D line is my biggest concern. If we put a good wirey running QB in the back field we can hopefully make up for the issues on the OL. Our D last year was not much better than the year before, so hoping these fall camp arrivals r going to be ready is a very scary thought.

Our schedule next year is full of QBs with wheels, and I don't see how our current depth is going to be able to handle it. I know everyone is so giddy about the strength the players have gained, but we need their cardio to be just as good if not better.
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I haven't actually checked the stats but it definitely seemed like it was a lot better.
 
#38
#38
Dave1967 said:
He couldn't even do that in the 2012 game with Vanderbilt. He was more accurate throwing beer bottles at coeds vehicles.
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I don't know why so many people dog on Bray. In 2012 he led the SEC in passing and touchdowns during the regular season.
 
#39
#39
I'd say the DL is a bigger concern. I feel that the only thing keeping the OL from being good is experience and that will come. I believe that over time our OL WILL gel and become very good. Our DL is another story. More specifically, the DT position has been extremely frustrating for me. We keep recruiting players but we have not had one single stand out DT since probably big Dan Williams in 09. Ever since then, I hate to cite a phrase coined by Dooley but our DT's have basically been a "sack of potatoes" for the last 5 years. Some are short and wide, some are taller and skinnier, etc. However absolutely NONE of them have emerged as dominate interior defensive linemen. This right here is a huge reason why we have struggled defensively over the last few years. Up until the '14 class, our most highly touted DT that we have recruited is probably Danny O'Brien but up to now he really hasn't emerged as a stand out player. Losing Carr to the OL is a big disappointment to me because he represents yet another in a long line of defensive lineman that didn't pan out. And for whatever reason Tennessee really struggles to land those big time 5* defensive tackles.

Coach Fulmer has said before that the two most important positions on a football team is quarterback and defensive tackle. He said if you are talented at both of those positions you will win a lot of ball games.
 
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#40
#40
Rockytoptalker said:
I don't know why so many people dog on Bray. In 2012 he led the SEC in passing and touchdowns during the regular season.
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Because he never played well in the clutch in the biggest games. Had no big wins to speak of, that's why IMO. Add that he was a bonehead to boot.
 
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#41
#41
chatt-townVOL said:
Personally, I'm way more concerned with the DL. Granted, we lost more talent on the OL, but it was a pretty overrated line I think. Our OL may not be world beaters this year, but we will have a quick-out offense and playmakers that will help it be less of an issue.

I've seen teams with bad D-lines though, and that can be a defense-killer. If a team gets wind they can push your line back, they will start cramming the ball on every down. When you have a team that can get 3-4 yards on every carry by going up the middle, you pretty much have to hope for error on their part, and you can almost guarantee they will convert on 3rd.

I have faith in our talent, but IMO it didn't look like our RB's had any trouble pushing for a few extra yards in the OW game.
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Both lines will be faster and quicker than their predecessor, and that is better IMO. However, the loss of experience should not be discounted.

I am most concerned about Defensive Tackles because in the SEC it is very difficult to win without them controlling the line of scrimmage. UT will need to develop them to be successful this fall.
 
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#42
#42
KBVol said:
Because he never played well in the clutch in the biggest games. Had no big wins to speak of, that's why IMO. Add that he was a bonehead to boot.
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He definitely wasn't the most mature guy in the world, and he choked under pressure a couple of times, but wouldn't it be a little bit more fair to place most of the blame on our defense rather than him?
 
#43
#43
Rockytoptalker said:
He definitely wasn't the most mature guy in the world, and he choked under pressure a couple of times, but wouldn't it be a little bit more fair to place most of the blame on our defense rather than him?
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No. Plenty of times where he left the D hanging after they gave the O the ball back. Florida '12 where we were winning, the D stops a fake punt attempt, and Bray and Co go 3 and out. Sending a tired D right back out there. Mizzou '12...we were up 28-21 all the way up to the last min of the game. The D gave the O the ball twice iirc in the 4th to put the game away and they did nothing with it. Everyone likes to put it on the D, but for a depleted group they played their butts off in '12. The O didn't put the teams away.
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#44
#44
I am much more worried about the coordinators then the actual players. If they cannot do a proper job of coaching, then it doesn't matter how good the players are.
 
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#45
#45
Oskie Volum said:
No. Plenty of times where he left the D hanging after they gave the O the ball back. Florida '12 where we were winning, the D stops a fake punt attempt, and Bray and Co go 3 and out. Sending a tired D right back out there. Mizzou '12...we were up 28-21 all the way up to the last min of the game. The D gave the O the ball twice iirc in the 4th to put the game away and they did nothing with it. Everyone likes to put it on the D, but for a depleted group they played their butts off in '12. The O didn't put the teams away.
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We showed no commitment to the run game in 2012. Even when we were running well we'd have 2-3 3 and outs a game where we had 3 passes in a row.

Even early in the Florida game when we were up on them and were averaging around 4 yards per carry we just abandoned the ground game. It was so frustrating to see our defense getting hung out to dry because our coaches didn't understand how to run some clock and give them a breather.

Our offense last season was pretty one sided also because our passing game was pretty poor, but our coaches at least attempted to keep the play calling balanced.

I think our offense being better this season will help out our defense a bit. Our OL worries me, especially the pass blocking at the tackle positions. However, I think we'll get be able to get a pretty decent push in the run game, and will probably see an increased output in the screen game to the extent that we'll be able to be fairly balanced and productive on offense.

Just reducing the number of three and outs will help the defense a bit. We should be more athletic overall in our starting 11 on defense this season, if a little soft in the middle. I think we'll be improved at DE between Maggit and Vereen. DT is a bit of an uncertainty, but AJ's strong suit is taking on guys and beating blocks in the middle.

In short, I think our weakness on defense will be at DT and we'll be improved on the edges of our defense a all levels. The uncertainty of the team at DT would worry me more if we didn't have AJ. Having better athletes on the edges will force things inside to him and that's what he excels at. I think the best case scenario for our defense is that they end up being a defense that bends a lot but has the athletes to not break and give up huge devastating plays. If they can manage to do that, we could pull off an upset or two and have the best season we've had in five or six seasons I think.
 
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#46
#46
I'm just glad we are back to recruiting at a high level again. We'll have an SEC caliber line on both sides of the ball after a couple more classes. As for this year I think the offensive line is the biggest concern. Blair may not be who we thought he was. We may have to start a talented freshman. If the freshman is even with Blair this fall, I'd rather see the kid start to build for the future. I'm ready to see Kerbs and Thomas get out there and play. I'm comfortable with Jackson & Crowder. We have some pieces on campus. We just need to shake everything out and see what happens this season. If bUTch pulls out a winning season recruiting will go through the roof and we will have studs all over the field like we used too.

GoVols.
 
#48
#48
Oskie Volum said:
No. Plenty of times where he left the D hanging after they gave the O the ball back. Florida '12 where we were winning, the D stops a fake punt attempt, and Bray and Co go 3 and out. Sending a tired D right back out there. Mizzou '12...we were up 28-21 all the way up to the last min of the game. The D gave the O the ball twice iirc in the 4th to put the game away and they did nothing with it. Everyone likes to put it on the D, but for a depleted group they played their butts off in '12. The O didn't put the teams away.
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I think this is a bit of a stretch. I mean the examples you used are absolutely correct, our offense on several occasions didn't help the defense, especially when Chaney would freak out and abandon the run game, but an offense shouldn't have to score 40+ points to win a football game, ever. I blame Florida on the offense but UGA, MS State, Mizzou, and the disaster that was almost Troy were all the result of awful defense. More specifically an awful secondary.
 
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#49
#49
ainge10heisman said:
Short and sweet answer, the DL. If you have an offense with much of a pulse at all, you can win a lot of games with just that and a good D.
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Actually recent history suggests that isn't true. Auburn has recently played in two NC's with a mediocre D and an overwhelming O. Oregon's success has been predicated on their O scoring so many points that it puts their moderately talented D in a favorable position. TAM had success with a mediocre or even poor D.

By contrast, UF had one of the better D's in the country last fall...
 
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#50
#50
BigOrangeTrain said:
I am much more worried about the coordinators then the actual players. If they cannot do a proper job of coaching, then it doesn't matter how good the players are.
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What? Aren't you the same guy who just a few months ago railed on me for saying that?
 
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