Are You still Gonzo for Counzo ?

#126
#126
calban said:
Was that the MVC?
Wasn't it Witchita State that knocked us out of the NCAA Tourney in Mar 06?
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Missouri State SOS:

05-06: 54th
06-07: 56th

08-09: 101st
10-11: 113th

Hinson won 22 games in both 05-06 and 06-07; Martins 24 and 26 against a much weaker schedule does not tell me that Martin did anything that Hinson could not do.
 
#127
#127
therealUT said:
He took a team that was 8-10 in the conference and turned them into a 2-conference-win team before his final two seasons of 20+ wins (against some of the easiest competition in the nation).

Barry Hinson did just as well, if not better, than Martin over the previous 9 seasons.
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In 2008, Missouri St. lost 5 seniors total, 4 of which saw significant minutes and had the majority of the starts.
 
#128
#128
l3rewski said:
In 2008, Missouri St. lost 5 seniors total, 4 of which saw significant minutes and had the majority of the starts.
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And, KU has one returning starter this season...what is your point?

Of the five players that had the most minutes in 08-09, they averaged the following minutes in the previous season:

Chris Cooks 22.8
Spence Laurie 27.6
Justin Fuehrmeyer 28.7
Kyle Weems 0
Wade Knapp 9.8

That is not exactly starting from scratch (and Weems was redshirted the previous season).
 
#129
#129
I'm saying they lost a class that included their two best, and consistent scorers... the only players that averaged double digits per game. It wasn't starting from scratch, but it was still a major impact. Comparatively, I'd say our situation is just as bad, if not worse for losing Tobias and Scotty. CCM was able to bring in freshman and transfers and get the Bears back to where they were before the coaching change. Was it enough to warrant his hiring here? Well, that's the 1.3 million dollar question.
 
#130
#130
l3rewski said:
I'm saying they lost a class that included their two best, and consistent scorers... the only players that averaged double digits per game. It wasn't starting from scratch, but it was still a major impact. Comparatively, I'd say our situation is just as bad, if not worse for losing Tobias and Scotty. CCM was able to bring in freshman and transfers and get the Bears back to where they were before the coaching change. Was it enough to warrant his hiring here? Well, that's the 1.3 million dollar question.
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And, the year before Missouri State lost Ahearn and Cheney; yet, they did not go 11-20 in Hinson's last season.

Martin relied on Weems and brought in Leonard; who was a Missouri native.

It should not have been enough to warrant a job offer from UT.
 
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#131
#131
therealUT said:
And, the year before Missouri State lost Ahearn and Cheney; yet, they did not go 11-20 in Hinson's last season.

Martin relied on Weems and brought in Leonard; who was a Missouri native.

It should not have been enough to warrant a job offer from UT.
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Good for Hinson. He was the coach for 9 seasons. He had ample opportunity to prepare for attrition.
 
#132
#132
l3rewski said:
Good for Hinson. He was the coach for 9 seasons. He had ample opportunity to prepare for attrition.
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He did not leave Martin with a bare cupboard or with a program that needed to be "rebuilt". Martin recovered from his initial season and then kept the program exactly where it was: a mediocre, mid-major that plays in the NIT.
 
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#133
#133
therealUT said:
He did not leave Martin with a bare cupboard or with a program that needed to be "rebuilt". Martin recovered from his initial season and then kept the program exactly where it was: a mediocre, mid-major that plays in the NIT.
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If we use that logic, then no one at UT should be upset that we're not doing better given our basketball program's history.
 
#135
#135
Chris4Vols22 said:
Yeah Martin didn't prove anything by taking a 2-conference-win team to conference champions in three seasons. Plus, his Gene Keady pedigree doesn't help either. No way this guy deserves to coach a high-major NCAA team ESPECIALLY with his admirable NCAA and NBA careers.
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Oh I'm sorry I forgot all about his 3 NCAA tournament appearances...wait whats that? He has never been to the big dance.

And if great playing careers translates into great coaching careers, why dont we just throw a bunch of money at Michael Jordan or Bill Russell?
 
#136
#136
99% of the fan base were on the fence about this hire.
I haven't seen anything yet to change that.
He needs to win over the fanbase, following Pearl is tough he was a popular coach.
 
#138
#138
Vol_51 said:
Oh I'm sorry I forgot all about his 3 NCAA tournament appearances...wait whats that? He has never been to the big dance.

And if great playing careers translates into great coaching careers, why dont we just throw a bunch of money at Michael Jordan or Bill Russell?
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Credit his lack if NCAA appearances to MO St. being in a terrible situation when he was hired. Going from last to first in conference standings in 3 years is nothing to scoff at.

You're crazy if you think that Martin's career contributes little or nothing to his coaching or overall persona that would affect us in positive ways.
 
#139
#139
Chris4Vols22 said:
Credit his lack if NCAA appearances to MO St. being in a terrible situation when he was hired. Going from last to first in conference standings in 3 years is nothing to scoff at.

You're crazy if you think that Martin's career contributes little or nothing to his coaching or overall persona that would affect us in positive ways.
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Quit embellishing Martin's situation at MO St., they were 17-16 the year before he arrived and had pretty good seasons in the prior years. This is not a "terrible situation" as you refer to it.

Yes, Martin won the regular season his final year but didn't win the tournament so ended up at the NIT losing in the 2nd round. He did a good job but given that UT has become a regular in the tournament, I am not sure whether he had the credentials to get the job. BTW, since everyone makes a big deal about Martin being from the Gene Keady tree, in the 5 years he coached with Gene Purdue finished in the bottom half 4 out of 5 years in the Big 10. His career contributes to the team, but at this point I have no idea how..

Hope he does well, but UT shouldn't be a rebuilding job given its success, and I keep hearing crap about giving him several years to get his guys in...which IMO is stupid!
 
#140
#140
mgv said:
I am not sure whether he had the credentials to get the job.
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When you start talking about credentials, you may want to check the resumes of some of the top coaches in the game today when they were hired to top D1 schools.
Check these guys:
Coach K
Brad Stevens
Painter
Roy Williams -Kansas
Bobby Knight
to name just a few.
 
#141
#141
calban said:
When you start talking about credentials, you may want to check the resumes of some of the top coaches in the game today when they were hired to top D1 schools.
Check these guys:
Coach K
Brad Stevens
Painter
Roy Williams -Kansas
Bobby Knight
to name just a few.
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uh..all those coaches went to the dance and it is a completely different era now. I doubt if Calapari leaves today that Kentucky is going to hire a coach from MO. St.
 
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#142
#142
mgv said:
uh..all those coaches went to the dance and it is a completely different era now. I doubt if Calapari leaves today that Kentucky is going to hire a coach from MO. St.
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Check their resumes.
We all know Coach K's resume.
Williams had no HC experience when hired at Kansas.
The same for Stevens.
Bobby Knight 6 years at army. Hired to Indiana after a losing season.
None of them went to the dance before they were hired to top D1s.
Is Stevens in another era category?
Judge this coach in March.
Maybe I'll agree with the doubters then. who knows.
 
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#143
#143
calban said:
Check their resumes.
We all know Coach K's resume.
Williams had no HC experience when hired at Kansas.
The same for Stevens.
Bobby Knight 6 years at army. Hired to Indiana after a losing season.
None of them went to the dance before they were hired to top D1s.
Is Stevens in another era category?
Judge this coach in March.
Maybe I'll agree with the doubters then. who knows.
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I understand the old school coaches, different era than now where everyone including myself want to win now. Stevens is in another category, Butler was pretty good before but what he has done is taken a team not in a major conference and elevated them to amazing heights. Stevens is mad genius, that would have been a good hire for UT over Martin. I will wait to March as well and give Martin a chance, but if this team plays terrible defense all year I don't need much more evidence.
 
#144
#144
Looking at Cuonzo's staff more closely on UT sports site, particularly Coach Webster, shows a lot of big time Div I hoops experience. I hope that translates into getting some difference-making players on board, that's crucial. In the meanttime, CCM will make changes in the rotation if necessary, possibly tonight who knows. And as far as the hire, were CCM's credentials any worse than Shaka Smart's prior to VCU's run this past season? Shaka's 09-10 VCU team went 23-11 and lost in the CAA champ. game to Old Dominion. Sure CCM is still largely unproven as a HC but let's try and give him more than 8 games to judge him by.
 
#146
#146
mgv said:
I understand the old school coaches, different era than now where everyone including myself want to win now. Stevens is in another category, Butler was pretty good before but what he has done is taken a team not in a major conference and elevated them to amazing heights. Stevens is mad genius, that would have been a good hire for UT over Martin. I will wait to March as well and give Martin a chance, but if this team plays terrible defense all year I don't need much more evidence.
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What is the difference in that era and this era of coaching? Coaching is the same as it always has been, now society and their demands may be different but coaching is still what it has always been.
 
#147
#147
mgv said:
Quit embellishing Martin's situation at MO St., they were 17-16 the year before he arrived and had pretty good seasons in the prior years. This is not a "terrible situation" as you refer to it.

Yes, Martin won the regular season his final year but didn't win the tournament so ended up at the NIT losing in the 2nd round. He did a good job but given that UT has become a regular in the tournament, I am not sure whether he had the credentials to get the job. BTW, since everyone makes a big deal about Martin being from the Gene Keady tree, in the 5 years he coached with Gene Purdue finished in the bottom half 4 out of 5 years in the Big 10. His career contributes to the team, but at this point I have no idea how..

Hope he does well, but UT shouldn't be a rebuilding job given its success, and I keep hearing crap about giving him several years to get his guys in...which IMO is stupid!
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We are in a much worse situation than MO St. was when they hired Martin. I'm not embellishing anything - don't need to when you use facts and logic.
 
#148
#148
mgv said:
I understand the old school coaches, different era than now where everyone including myself want to win now. Stevens is in another category, Butler was pretty good before but what he has done is taken a team not in a major conference and elevated them to amazing heights. Stevens is mad genius, that would have been a good hire for UT over Martin. I will wait to March as well and give Martin a chance, but if this team plays terrible defense all year I don't need much more evidence.
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How do impatient fans make this a new era in college basketball? That makes no sense.
If you think we should have hired Stevens, he had no interest. He's happy where he is.

I'm not happy with the play of this team so far either.
If Martin can't right the ship by March, then I'll question the hire too.
 
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