Arizona Election Audit

#2,351
#2,351
VolinWayne said:
Ok this should be really fun. Explain to me how you can mail mail-in-ballots without folding them. Keep in mind return envelopes are always mailed along with the ballot. A lot of states also provide a security envelope which the ballot is required to be inside. I will patiently await your answer knowing you will never be able to logically explain this. You are digging yourself a hole now.
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Here is the potential problem:

The firm known as "Cyber Ninjas" isn't being transparent with their "audit". They appear to be taking ballots and looking for folds in them with the assumption that ALL early ballots should have folds in them. If you voted early by mail in Arizona, your ballot came folded in an envelope. Those ballots were printed by Runbeck Election Services and folded by a machine. It is true that all mail-in ballots are early ballots, BUT NOT ALL EARLY BALLOTS ARE MAIL-IN BALLOTS. Maricopa Country residents were also invited to vote early, in person at voting centers across the county when they became available in October. Additionally, ballots sent to members of the military and overseas ballots would not be folded.

When their report is finished, Cyber Ninjas must account for these differences. They can't simply conclude that "X" amounts of ballots are fraudulent because they don't have folds in them.

Former Maricopa County Deputy Recorder Kathren Coleman expressed this concern about the Cyber Ninjas audit:

"It's certainly concerning as an election officer to see that they are using a method that will exclusively look for something that will influence a report in such a way that is not true to election administration or that actually points to any fraud whatsoever."
 
#2,352
#2,352
VolinWayne said:
So here are some areas that I take issue in regards to the Fulton County audits that have been done. I constantly hear people say that they've already recounted 3 times. Here are some simple facts

  • The original Georgia count was derived by accumulating hidden votes in the QR codes on the ballots produced by the BMDs;
  • The machine recount simply rescanned the same QR codes and reprinted the previous unverifiable results;
  • The hand count audit was too horribly flawed to verify the count of any voting system as we will explain.
  • Counties were not required to have a member of each party or campaign present to verify the hand counts for each batch of ballots at each table;
  • Key counties like Fulton and DeKalb did not allow monitoring of the data entry upload point for the hand count tally sheets so there is no guarantee that the results written on the sheets were actually entered into the “ARLO” recording system;
  • The SOS made counties enter their audit data into the SOS “ARLO” system and most did not retain their own county audit results thus breaking the chain of custody for the audit data, making audit results vulnerable to manipulation and forcing the counties to rely on the SOS system to tell them what their audit results are.
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I didn't say a word about Fulton County in that post you replied to. That was strictly about Arizona.
 
#2,353
#2,353
BowlBrother85 said:
Here is the potential problem:

The firm known as "Cyber Ninjas" isn't being transparent with their "audit". They appear to be taking ballots and looking for folds in them with the assumption that ALL early ballots should have folds in them. If you voted early by mail in Arizona, your ballot came folded in an envelope. Those ballots were printed by Runbeck Election Services and folded by a machine. It is true that all mail-in ballots are early ballots, BUT NOT ALL EARLY BALLOTS ARE MAIL-IN BALLOTS. Maricopa Country residents were also invited to vote early, in person at voting centers across the county when they became available in October. Additionally, ballots sent to members of the military and overseas ballots would not be folded.

When their report is finished, Cyber Ninjas must account for these differences. They can't simply conclude that "X" amounts of ballots are fraudulent because they don't have folds in them.

Former Maricopa County Deputy Recorder Kathren Coleman expressed this concern about the Cyber Ninjas audit:

"It's certainly concerning as an election officer to see that they are using a method that will exclusively look for something that will influence a report in such a way that is not true to election administration or that actually points to any fraud whatsoever."
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Ok first of all, I assume the level of transparency you prefer is covering windows with cardboard instead of 15 cameras livestreaming every minute....jeesh what a morning statement

I'm sure there will be a detailed report of everything when they have completed the audit.
 
#2,354
#2,354
VolinWayne said:
Ok first of all, I assume the level of transparency you prefer is covering windows with cardboard instead of 15 cameras livestreaming every minute....jeesh what a morning statement

I'm sure there will be a detailed report of everything when they have completed the audit.
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The level of transparency that I prefer is that they must be able to decipher the early ballots sent by mail from the ballots that weren't. They must also know that overseas ballots and military ballots would not have folds in them. Their lack of transparency has left that question unanswered thus far.

They can't just assume that all early ballots were delivered by mail and should therefore have a fold (but that appears to be exactly what Cyber Ninjas is doing).
 
#2,355
#2,355
BowlBrother85 said:
The level of transparency that I prefer is that they must be able to decipher the early ballots sent by mail from the ballots that weren't. They must also know that overseas ballots and military ballots would not have folds in them. Their lack of transparency has left that question unanswered thus far.

They can't just assume that all early ballots were delivered by mail and should therefore have a fold (but that appears to be exactly what Cyber Ninjas is doing).
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Yes I understand that about military ballots. We are talking about regular mail-in-ballots.
 
#2,356
#2,356
tnmarktx said:
Sure you have. You claimed that a judge gave them opportunity to show fraud and they didn't, which means there's absolutely no fraud in Pennsylvania. That's a blatantly false statement.
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Judge Stephanos Bibas did give attorneys for the 2020 Trump Campaign the opportunity to present evidence of fraud... and they didn't. However, those attorneys did make allegations of fraud in Pennsylvania while appearing on Fox News just a few days earlier. That could easily lead a reasonable person to conclude that those attorneys were just blowing smoke on cable news. They wouldn't make the same allegations in court, that they were making on tv, and that is because there could be repercussions for their law licenses if they were caught making false allegations and/or lying to a court. Such an observation isn't a false statement. It's conjecture based on facts.

There isn't a good explanation as to why the Trump legal team never alleged fraud in court, after being so eager to do so on cable news.

Even Sidney Powell's defense has been something like: No reasonable person would believe me anyway.

However, we know better than that on this forum. You, and that @NCFisher guy and @VolinWayne were lapping up everything that crazy loon said in November and December.
 
#2,357
#2,357
VolinWayne said:
I'm sure there will be a detailed report of everything when they have completed the audit.
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Yeah. Who wouldn't have complete confidence in a firm with no prior experience of working on an election? Especially when they are a business named "Cyber Ninjas".

That is so dignified. It just oozes with professionalism and credibility.
 
#2,358
#2,358
BowlBrother85 said:
Judge Stephanos Bibas did give attorneys for the 2020 Trump Campaign the opportunity to present evidence of fraud... and they didn't. However, those attorneys did make allegations of fraud in Pennsylvania while appearing on Fox News just a few days earlier. That could easily lead a reasonable person to conclude that those attorneys were just blowing smoke on cable news. They wouldn't make the same allegations in court, that they were making on tv, and that is because there could be repercussions for their law licenses if they were caught making false allegations and/or lying to a court. Such an observation isn't a false statement. It's conjecture based on facts.

There isn't a good explanation as to why the Trump legal team never alleged fraud in court, after being so eager to do so on cable news.

Even Sidney Powell's defense has been something like: No reasonable person would believe me anyway.

However, we know better than that on this forum. You, and that @NCFisher guy and @VolinWayne were lapping up everything that crazy loon said in November and December.
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I've told you this many times before. A violation of equal protection essentially equals an unfair election. This is way more easily proven. That's the route they chose and it was probably a good one. The problem is, our justice system is a sham. I'm sure you'd agree in some ways that it's a sham. However, in this case you're morally corrupt. I could tell you that the sky is blue and in any other circumstance you'd be ok with that. If it meant Trump won the election, you'd be like hell no it's not blue. Your hatred in this situation takes away any credibility you might otherwise have.
 
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#2,359
#2,359
VolinWayne said:
This is why we absolutely have got to get rid of voting machines and we have got to go back to paper ballots. Politicians from both sides have been saying this for years but then they never do anything about it. I think both sides are deeply involved and they don't want it to be fixed.


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I love it. We have the tech to hack machines connected to the internet. But not the tech to forge paper ballots.
 
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#2,362
#2,362
tnmarktx said:
I've told you this many times before. A violation of equal protection essentially equals an unfair election. This is way more easily proven. That's the route they chose and it was probably a good one. The problem is, our justice system is a sham. I'm sure you'd agree in some ways that it's a sham. However, in this case you're morally corrupt. I could tell you that the sky is blue and in any other circumstance you'd be ok with that. If it meant Trump won the election, you'd be like hell no it's not blue. Your hatred in this situation takes away any credibility you might otherwise have.
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This is pure BS. They were making a case for fraud on cable news... but that was just for show. They were given chances to make a case for fraud in court, and they couldn't do it.

My credibility is derived from my consistency. I believe that the democratic system of elections in the United States works just as it should. I have always said this, even when I have been bitterly disappointed at some of the results. I believe that the 2016 Presidential Election was fair, and it had a just outcome. I hated it, but Trump won. I feel that Russia did meddle in the 2016 Presidential Campaign to help Trump and I believe that there was coordination between Russian agents and members of the 2016 Trump Campaign in attacking Hillary Clinton on social media, but there is no evidence that these attacks changed how anyone voted. I don't believe that they did change any votes, and I have said that in many posts, and in many different threads over the last four years.

The 2020 Presidential Election was also fair, and it had a just outcome that some Republicans don't want to accept, because of sour grapes - which is exactly what they accused Democrats of having during the Mueller probe.
 
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#2,364
#2,364
BowlBrother85 said:
That is such a lame narrative. No audits have been blocked. Why not choose an objective auditor, if you really believe that an audit will show that Trump won?
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I want partisans auditing.
Muller found nothing between Russian and Trump so the Democrats had nothing to complain about.
If these partisans find nothing then the GOP has no complaints. If they find fraud then the Democrats will get to rebut.

I once again believe that nothing is going to happen regardless of what is found
 
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#2,365
#2,365
Orangeslice13 said:
I want partisans auditing.
Muller found nothing between Russian and Trump so the Democrats had nothing to complain about.
If these partisans find nothing then the GOP has no complaints. If they find fraud then the Democrats will get to rebut.

I once again believe that nothing is going to happen regardless of what is found
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Mueller wasn't a partisan. Mueller was/is a Republican. That is not the case with Doug Logan, who (unprofessionally) announced his conclusion of fraud back in December, before this "audit" even began. Is that what Mueller did, before the probe even started? NO.
 
#2,366
#2,366
BowlBrother85 said:
Mueller wasn't a partisan. Mueller was/is a Republican. That is not the case with Doug Logan, who (unprofessionally) announced his conclusion of fraud back in December, before this "audit" even began. Is that what Mueller did, before the probe even started? NO.
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Mueller was just one of them, no different than a McConnell. They did not want an outsider. That should scare the hell out of you
 
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#2,367
#2,367
Orangeburst said:
Mueller was just one of them, no different than a McConnell. They did not want an outsider. That should scare the hell out of you
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Nobody on the Mueller staff announced a conclusive determination before the probe had even started. That is exactly what Doug Logan of Cyber Ninjas did back in December. Logan also posted a provably false claim about Dominion Voting Systems having been created in Venezuela in order to help Hugo Chavez steal elections on Sidney Powell's website. Sidney Powell is currently being sued by Dominion for such false allegations, but now, Logan is in charge of auditing Dominion machines? That is a colossal conflict of interest. Logan's bias does matter.
 
#2,368
#2,368
BowlBrother85 said:
Nobody on the Mueller staff announced a conclusive determination before the probe had even started. That is exactly what Doug Logan of Cyber Ninjas did back in December. Logan also posted a provably false claim about Dominion Voting Systems having been created in Venezuela in order to help Hugo Chavez steal elections on Sidney Powell's website. Sidney Powell is currently being sued by Dominion for such false allegations, but now, Logan is in charge of auditing Dominion machines? That is a colossal conflict of interest. His bias does matter.
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No..they just leaked it to keep the narrative alive.
 
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#2,370
#2,370
AshG said:
I thought I'd worded it down the middle and expressed my disdain for both sides of this fallacious binary political system. Is the problem that I didn't outright insult everyone and everything not hyper conservative?
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Sorry if I come across as a little hypersensitive. But can you name one issue facing this country right now that Joe Biden is on the correct side of? Just one.
 
#2,371
#2,371
Orangeslice13 said:
And much easier to audit
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really? there is a reason everything is on a computer now.

in a paper system, if something goes wrong there is no way to trace what went wrong, where it went wrong, how it went wrong, and depends on admittedly biased humans. who apparently are allowed now to come in and do audits even after they have stated how they want things to turn out.

Imagine if an outside firm had been hired that was pro-Biden and had financially supported Biden. before they even started the audit, said we will find no fraud. called out daily Trump and or his supporters. How would that be received by y'all? This board would be up in arms. calling out the bias, and deep state blahdeeblah. But because its your team being incredibly biased, its all ok, and we have to take them at their word.
 
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#2,373
#2,373
BigOrangeTrain said:
BB still in here fighting the good fight I see 😂😂😂😂
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There is nothing here for a Democrat to fight. Biden won. Trump lost. You are delusional if you think that an audit, which began three months after the winning candidate was sworn into office, is going to retroactively change the outcome of the 2020 Presidential Election.

The crazy thing here, is that even if you concede the two states that Republicans have spent the most time whining over (Arizona and Georgia) to Donald Trump.... Joe Biden still wins the election with 279 electoral college votes. I would be willing to bet that most of you idiots don't even realize that.

So, what would the next state be then? Wisconsin? Pennsylvania? Michigan (which Biden won by over 150,000 votes)? This is a joke.
 
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#2,375
#2,375
LouderVol said:
really? there is a reason everything is on a computer now.

in a paper system, if something goes wrong there is no way to trace what went wrong, where it went wrong, how it went wrong, and depends on admittedly biased humans. who apparently are allowed now to come in and do audits even after they have stated how they want things to turn out.

Imagine if an outside firm had been hired that was pro-Biden and had financially supported Biden. before they even started the audit, said we will find no fraud. called out daily Trump and or his supporters. How would that be received by y'all? This board would be up in arms. calling out the bias, and deep state blahdeeblah. But because its your team being incredibly biased, its all ok, and we have to take them at their word.
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uhhhh
If something went wrong, you recount the hard copies.



So which is it?
The computer system is or isn’t easily audited?
The pro Biden would be just as irrelevant as their results will be just as subject to review.
 
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