Atheists "Hijack" Nativity in Santa Monica

#302
#302
rjd970 said:
I never said anything about oppression. I simply stated that Christians up in arms over a few yahoo "atheists" are being silly being they are the majority, and this business of the "condescending enlightenment" being just as bad as the evangelism is a crock.
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How is it a crock? Demographics have nothing at all with the message "that others just don't understand." they both suck. Why do the more brilliant atheists have the need to be heard?
 
#303
#303
I see nothing condescending about trying to tell someone that they should use reason and logic; I see plenty condescending about someone stating that they have some privileged revelation that tells them that I should change my beliefs and/or behaviors.
 
#304
#304
therealUT said:
Maybe he should not have used the term 'hate'; however, you have made it quite clear that the only reason for atheists proclaiming anything is to be 'jackasses', 'piss people off', and to be 'a pain in the ass'.

Reference posts 18, 37, and 69.
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He said hate
 
#305
#305
nbakerld said:
Both can be done positively or negatively (with hate). I was a Mormon missionary many lifetimes ago. I didn't knock on a Baptist's door to tell him he was wrong, I knocked on his door to tell him what we had to offer.
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I've never had that experience. It usually goes something like this:

Them: hello there, do you believe in god?
Me: no.
Them (paraphrased): well the Bible says this and this and this. It's proof positive that he exists, so you should believe in him.
Me (paraphrased): Well the Koran says this, Scientology says that, Buddhism says another. Why aren't you any of those?
Them: god didn't write those books.
Me: but I don't believe in god, so why would I believe your book as opposed to the others?
Them (desperate): why do you hate god so much?
Me (laughing): how can I hate someone that I don't believe exists?
Them (gasping): aren't you afraid of going to hell?
Me (still laughing): how can I be afraid of going to a place that I don't believe exists?
Them (terse): good day sir.
Me: see you in a couple of weeks so we can have this same conversation again.

Personally, I think door-to-door anything is a colossal waste of time. How exactly are you going to convert someone to anything in 15 minutes on their doorstep? I didn't become agnostic/atheist (depending on whose definition we are using) overnight; it was a multi-year process.
 
#310
#310
BigPapaVol said:
How is it a crock? Demographics have nothing at all with the message "that others just don't understand." they both suck. Why do the more brilliant atheists have the need to be heard?
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Both sides need to STFU IMO. Demographics have everything to do with how often the message is heard. Both sides saying a message that is annoying, the side that is bigger is the worst. The ""condescending enlightenment" crowd doesn't even compare to the sheer numbers of equally irritating religious ideals that get pushed on to society every single day.

So a few rowdy atheists messed with a christmas display. Nice. I am sitting here deciding which GOP candidate to vote for telling us life begins at conception and intelligent design is legit science.
 
#311
#311
lumberjack4 said:
I've never had that experience. It usually goes something like this:

Them: hello there, do you believe in god?
Me: no.
Them (paraphrased): well the Bible says this and this and this. It's proof positive that he exists, so you should believe in him.
Me (paraphrased): Well the Koran says this, Scientology says that, Buddhism says another. Why aren't you any of those?
Them: god didn't write those books.
Me: but I don't believe in god, so why would I believe your book as opposed to the others?
Them (desperate): why do you hate god so much?
Me (laughing): how can I hate someone that I don't believe exists?
Them (gasping): aren't you afraid of going to hell?
Me (still laughing): how can I be afraid of going to a place that I don't believe exists?
Them (terse): good day sir.
Me: see you in a couple of weeks so we can have this same conversation again.

Personally, I think door-to-door anything is a colossal waste of time. How exactly are you going to convert someone to anything in 15 minutes on their doorstep? I didn't become agnostic/atheist (depending on whose definition we are using) overnight; it was a multi-year process.
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Just like with atheists, it is just an excuse to tell somebody what they believe and how it is right and you are wrong.

Difference is atheists don't have this as an organized and institutionalized practice. They typically don't ask for money either after you have been converted.
 
#312
#312
golfballs03 said:
You can't read?
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If I'm standing on a street corner telling people how stupid they are to believe in god, and that my way is better. Christians would be clamoring to find any way they could to get me off that street corner. They'd claim I'm being offensive to their beliefs or spreading hate, anything to get me off the street.

It's always funny when someone starts preaching Islam on a street corner. Christians are aghast and start running for their lives. Mysteriously the person is always asked to leave 5 minutes later, whereas the christians are there all day.
 
#314
#314
lumberjack4 said:
If I'm standing on a street corner telling people how stupid they are to believe in god, and that my way is better. Christians would be clamoring to find any way they could to get me off that street corner. They'd claim I'm being offensive to their beliefs or spreading hate, anything to get me off the street.

It's always funny when someone starts preaching Islam on a street corner. Christians are aghast and start running for their lives. Mysteriously the person is always asked to leave 5 minutes later, whereas the christians are there all day.
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I just asked who said atheists were spewing hate
 
#316
#316
lumberjack4 said:
I've never had that experience. It usually goes something like this:

Them: hello there, do you believe in god?
Me: no.
Them (paraphrased): well the Bible says this and this and this. It's proof positive that he exists, so you should believe in him.
Me (paraphrased): Well the Koran says this, Scientology says that, Buddhism says another. Why aren't you any of those?
Them: god didn't write those books.
Me: but I don't believe in god, so why would I believe your book as opposed to the others?
Them (desperate): why do you hate god so much?
Me (laughing): how can I hate someone that I don't believe exists?
Them (gasping): aren't you afraid of going to hell?
Me (still laughing): how can I be afraid of going to a place that I don't believe exists?
Them (terse): good day sir.
Me: see you in a couple of weeks so we can have this same conversation again.

Personally, I think door-to-door anything is a colossal waste of time. How exactly are you going to convert someone to anything in 15 minutes on their doorstep? I didn't become agnostic/atheist (depending on whose definition we are using) overnight; it was a multi-year process.
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I'm sure that's exactly how it goes down.

It happens. It doesn't take 15 minutes. The missionaries get invited back.
 
#317
#317
therealUT said:
I see nothing condescending about trying to tell someone that they should use reason and logic; I see plenty condescending about someone stating that they have some privileged revelation that tells them that I should change my beliefs and/or behaviors.
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Neither has to be condescending in any way. Both are most often preached condescendingly by those most fervently wanting to change others' minds about it.

Thank goodness you avoided the condescension here.
 
#320
#320
rjd970 said:
Both sides need to STFU IMO. Demographics have everything to do with how often the message is heard. Both sides saying a message that is annoying, the side that is bigger is the worst. The ""condescending enlightenment" crowd doesn't even compare to the sheer numbers of equally irritating religious ideals that get pushed on to society every single day.

So a few rowdy atheists messed with a christmas display. Nice. I am sitting here deciding which GOP candidate to vote for telling us life begins at conception and intelligent design is legit science.
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again, what in the world does the volume have to do with the message. The attention seeking atheist crowd out to prove its brilliance is no different than the loony Christian Coalition and they both suck.
 
#322
#322
BigPapaVol said:
Neither has to be condescending in any way. Both are most often preached condescendingly by those most fervently wanting to change others' minds about it.

Thank goodness you avoided the condescension here.
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I suggested that one use reason and logic and that is condescending?

You did not strike me as one who would want to cling to the irrational and the illogical; thanks for clearing that up, though.

And, yes, this last statement was intentionally condescending; and, from the apparent offense you took to my previous post, fair and honest.
 
#323
#323
therealUT said:
I suggested that one use reason and logic and that is condescending?

You did not strike me as one who would want to cling to the irrational and the illogical; thanks for clearing that up, though.

And, yes, this last statement was intentionally condescending; and, from the apparent offense you took to my previous post, fair and honest.
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implied lack of reason and/or logic to conclude something differently than that which you conclude is the height of condescension. The use of the term privilege wasn't as innocuous as you imply either.

I don't personally take any of it as condescending, especially from you.
 
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#324
#324
BigPapaVol said:
implied lack of reason and/or logic to conclude something differently than that which you conclude is the height of condescension. The use of the term privilege wasn't as innocuous as you imply either.

I don't personally take any of it as condescending, especially from you.
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You cannot get from reason to belief in the Christian god; this has been accepted and expounded upon by a great majority of Christian theologians. You get to that belief by having 'privileged access' to the 'revelation' as given through the authoritative text.

Take up your issue of the use of the word 'privilege' with the Vatican, Luther, Kierkegaard, More, etc.
 
#325
#325
BigPapaVol said:
implied lack of reason and/or logic to conclude something differently than that which you conclude is the height of condescension. The use of the term privilege wasn't as innocuous as you imply either.

I don't personally take any of it as condescending, especially from you.
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The existence of god cannot be proved nor disproved. Those who tell others they are illogical or stupid for holding the opinions they do should look in the mirror.
 
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